I don't like the new jeep trucks. - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
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post #46 of 65 Old 12-15-2019, 04:41 PM
Prot
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It seems like with the litigious society we live in, lawyers usually push for a more conservative tow and payload rating than a vehicle is capable of.

My 2014 JKU tows ok and is much better than my 2007 JKU was at towing, despite having the same tow rating, so I get what you are saying.

I think most people buying a truck like this will tow a small boat, a utility trailer, a pair of jet skis, stuff like that and not some outrageous load that commercials for one ton trucks depict.

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post #47 of 65 Old 12-22-2019, 02:12 PM
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One thing to remember when it comes to tow ratings. The attributes that make a vehicle better off road, more compliant suspension for instance, is counter to the stability that is needed for a higher tow rating. You don't buy a vehicle set up for off roading to tow your off road vehicle in order to go off roading. You buy a vehicle set up for towing to tow your off road vehicle. And it isn't just the lawyers, the government has lots of regulations that have to be met (stability, etc) that determine the tow rating.

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post #48 of 65 Old 02-09-2020, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 222Doc View Post
would get the Power wagon before the jeep. Better truck, has 1 ton axles still?. I have to check but the P wagon has coil linked rear if i recall. not leafs. V8. cost a bit more but it has everything a Rubicon has as well. Just 1 ton.

But then again i wont be buying anything Fiat anyway. We have two trucks. Well I have a truck the f250 7.3 and Wife's 7.3 Excursion's a better truck then that jeep. Might even be a better jeep then jeep is a truck and its a SUV. Big one but none the less. i was pulling Donner pass last week for our yearly Rubicon run. Did it this year with her X about 8k in tow. 70mph up hill towing. cant see my 3.6 doing it.
I've heard this falsehood over and over again. Get down and under a JL or JT and show me the FIAT parts. I think you'll be there a while because there aren't any. Compass, Renegade and Cherokee are FIAT based, Wrangler, is NOT. Yes FIAT was the majority owner of Chrysler or what was left after it after the lying bastards from Daimler Benz "bought" the company in a "merger of equals" that was really a hostile take over. Then dumped it to die, when Cerebus bought what was left and decided nothing could be done, and finally FIAT got involved. Say what you will about FIAT, they were 10x better for JEEP than the egotistical bastards from Daimler Benz, who by the way LIED TO SHARE HOLDERS about the "merger".

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post #49 of 65 Old 02-09-2020, 01:57 PM
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I've heard this falsehood over and over again. Get down and under a JL or JT and show me the FIAT parts. I think you'll be there a while because there aren't any. Compass, Renegade and Cherokee are FIAT based, Wrangler, is NOT. Yes FIAT was the majority owner of Chrysler or what was left after it after the lying bastards from Daimler Benz "bought" the company in a "merger of equals" that was really a hostile take over. Then dumped it to die, when Cerebus bought what was left and decided nothing could be done, and finally FIAT got involved. Say what you will about FIAT, they were 10x better for JEEP than the egotistical bastards from Daimler Benz, who by the way LIED TO SHARE HOLDERS about the "merger".
So some of the driveline is similar. Open up the hood, look at the changes. Dive deep into the electronics and communications between them. Look at some of the real fine points of the vehicle. They are really becoming FIATs.
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If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #50 of 65 Old 02-09-2020, 02:06 PM
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The Gladiator by no means has the capabilities of anyone elses half ton truck, Let alone a bigger truck. It is a niche vehicle. People can rattle off specs about payload and tow capacity. It doesn't mean squat. Get under one and also other trucks and really understand what I am saying and deal with the shortcomings of all trucks on a daily basis as in working on them. An example... Some Ford f-150's with an Ecoboost v-6 boast over 12,000 lbs of towing capacity..... Really??? Who in their right mind would put that much weight behind half ton axles and brakes or work turbos that hard and generate that much heat?

So.... It is a niche vehicle. It can be very cool and lifestyle perfect to some and not a good fit at all for others. Buy it and love it if it fits. Don't buy it if it doesn't. Who cares?

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #51 of 65 Old 02-09-2020, 04:12 PM
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So some of the driveline is similar. Open up the hood, look at the changes. Dive deep into the electronics and communications between them. Look at some of the real fine points of the vehicle. They are really becoming FIATs.
Specifically which parts are you talking about? Every vehicle on the road is an overly complex computer. Including the JK. Many would argue that the TJ is. That was going to happen with or without Fiat.

Chrysler is doing the best it has ever done in performance and quality since before the Germans (Ironic huh? "German engineering", what a farce) While some vehicle are built on Fiat platforms, Fiat has allowed Jeep, SRT, Ram, and many other vehicles to carry on as they were. The JL and JT came out at the right time for Fiat to squash all of the things that make the Wrangler what it is, but they didn't do it.

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post #52 of 65 Old 02-09-2020, 04:46 PM
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Well, I am not a platform engineer and and am not willing to spend the rest of my life in the CDJRF parts and service manuals to tell you all the differences and intricacies.

I do however just come from one of their dealerships as a tech.

If you really think that the 2020 Jeep, SRT Ram and such tech has carried on as it was..... Go for it. It is FIAT ****ing

BTW. Some of the best Jeep tech that has carried on is because of the German trans tech. Js.

As I already stated. Some of the driveline is similar to some of their older vehicles. It is the other details that mess it up..... The damn electrical and communications for instance...... That has all become FIAT.

Chrysler is a train wreck for nothing other than its service information. It has been AMC, then Chrysler, then Chrysler LLC or something, then dahmler Chrysler, and then FCA. Did I miss something on the way. EVERY single one of them has had a different online format for service information. It has made it impossible to find WTF you need to fix a vehicle.

FIAT **** is the cheapest stuff on the market. Wiring harnesses and connectors failing in the first year or two..... Big time.... over and over..... some do not even need diag..... just name a complaint and I will tell you what harness or connector already failed..... cheap assed ****.... It has invaded the entire carline.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #53 of 65 Old 02-09-2020, 05:58 PM
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So some of the driveline is similar. Open up the hood, look at the changes. Dive deep into the electronics and communications between them. Look at some of the real fine points of the vehicle. They are really becoming FIATs.
Some?
OK then:
what FIAT uses a Chrysler 3.6 in a rear drive/four wheel drive application, Dana solid axles, a ZF rear/four wheel drive application and a New Venture transfer case? NONE.
and as far as engine management pretty much all vehicles today use a version of CANBUS so there are little differences there.
It sounds like you want to be unhappy with FIAT management. Well, I would greatly prefer that Chrysler stayed American owned, but that was destroyed by the lying ego maniacs from Daimler Benz who sucked all the cash out of ChryCo and remember, ChryCo was very profitable in '98. FIAT's management as been far better even though on the face of it, people would have predicted the opposite.
another data point, we have 3 Jeeps:
a Chrysler Era 1998
A Daimler Chrysler Era 2007
A FCA era 2017
each one has been better than the one before. The '17 has not been back to the dealer for anything, all its needed is normal maintenance.
The '98 had 2 significant problems that took 4 visits each to resolve, the '07 was much better, very few repairs till it got older.
I would love to see JEEP, RAM, DODGE/CHRYSLER American owned and managed again, but if I can't have that, I thank the FIAT management for not f'ing it up the way Daimler did. Thank you Sergio and rest in peace.

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post #54 of 65 Old 02-14-2020, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I still don't like the trucks in general. But I saw another on what looked like 35's today, and that looked decent. So 35's, no top and no doors, it looks good. As it sits in the lot... Nope.

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post #55 of 65 Old 02-15-2020, 02:21 PM
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had one on the trails with us few weeks ago. JTR on 35s. They though the trails here in AZ were like the ones in Cali. AZ its 1-5, Cali is 1-10. We were running two trails that day a 4.0 and a 4.5. The Jt caused us to slow down so much we could only get through the 4.0 with him being beached on every rock it could find, winching and strapped. Its just to long and the departure angle is so bad. needless to say they beat the snot out it that day lost fenders do to horrible turning radius on tight trails. about half way in the guy asked why are these 4s so hard...thats the point we understand the mistake, An Az 4 is like a 8/9 and 4.5 is a 9/10 and our 5s are buggy trails.. and our 3.5/3+s tend to be harder then say the Rubicon trails WAY over ratted 10 Bs. before the start we did try to tell him that these trails might be more then he would want to do in such a pretty jeep.....he said we done many 4s.. So when in a new to you area be sure to understand how trails are rate. My self in a "new" to me i tend to drop down a few points to get an idea of the system. since how hard is very subjective in this sport.

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post #56 of 65 Old 02-16-2020, 03:31 PM
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had one on the trails with us few weeks ago. JTR on 35s. They though the trails here in AZ were like the ones in Cali. AZ its 1-5, Cali is 1-10. We were running two trails that day a 4.0 and a 4.5. The Jt caused us to slow down so much we could only get through the 4.0 with him being beached on every rock it could find, winching and strapped. Its just to long and the departure angle is so bad. needless to say they beat the snot out it that day lost fenders do to horrible turning radius on tight trails. about half way in the guy asked why are these 4s so hard...thats the point we understand the mistake, An Az 4 is like a 8/9 and 4.5 is a 9/10 and our 5s are buggy trails.. and our 3.5/3+s tend to be harder then say the Rubicon trails WAY over ratted 10 Bs. before the start we did try to tell him that these trails might be more then he would want to do in such a pretty jeep.....he said we done many 4s.. So when in a new to you area be sure to understand how trails are rate. My self in a "new" to me i tend to drop down a few points to get an idea of the system. since how hard is very subjective in this sport.
Let me know where and when.
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post #57 of 65 Old 02-16-2020, 05:12 PM
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The Jt caused us to slow down so much we could only get through the 4.0 with him being beached on every rock it could find, winching and strapped. Its just too long and the departure angle is so bad. needless to say they beat the snot out it that day lost fenders do to horrible turning radius on tight trails.

I would much prefer a mini bed version of the Africa concept. The JK based Africa is around a foot shorter than the Gladiator making it much more trail friendly and much more 'Jeep' in my opinion. The Gladiator is bumping up against the Ram Rebel and Powerwagon size wise. Might as well just buy a Ram.

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post #58 of 65 Old 02-16-2020, 05:57 PM
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Let me know where and when.
LOL BRING IT....Contact me anytime our club runs all winter here, im retired so im good any day. As well I run all your trails in the summer. Dusy? been there 4x and will again this aug1 if it opens on time latter if it dont. Rubicon and Fordyce this spring. Just to name a few...


I would love to see a JT get by on one of my favorites here we call and its a total sand bag . trail name is 3 and half. rated 4/ 4.5 bigger the jeep harder it is. Do not bring that hard top as you will be using your roll bar as a slider. those preety side tanks will be ripped off. that black paint will be traded with stone. there are no Bypasses as well. I dont run 5s here so if you are a great driver i can set up the buggies to break that jeep on 5s. Me i know better.

That jeeps a virgin wont be after that trail.

here is a good friend on the second obstacle right after the gate keeper. shes like 85 years young, that Cj is on 40s linked and its doing the roll bar slide to get around that off camber hard right that rolls you into the wall. LONGER you are wider you are the harder it is.
second obstacle

the gate

gate looking down


found another pic of a tJ doing the turn see the top buckling yea dont bring soft tops too, or doors, mirrors etc.... all trail fodder on most harder Az trails. since they are all in narrow, tight canyons. most wont have a bypass as well. escapes on some. you just get out of that canyons and stay on top, peanut galleries.

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post #59 of 65 Old 02-19-2020, 01:07 AM
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canít find delete post button

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post #60 of 65 Old 02-19-2020, 01:14 AM
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FORD EXCURSION

Dimensions
Wheelbase
137.1 in (3,482 mm)
Length
226.7 in (5,758 mm)
Width
2000–01: 80.0 in (2,032 mm)
2002–05: 79.9 in (2,029 mm)
Height
4WD: 77.2 in (1,961 mm)
2WD: 74.8 in (1,900 mm)
Curb weight
7,688 lb (3,487 kg) (Turbodiesel)
7,230 lb (3,280 kg) (Gasoline)

2014 JKU Copperhead Pearl
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