WK CRD, Tuned, performance observations - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 10 Old 06-19-2021, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
Benzrokee
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WK CRD, Tuned, performance observations

Hi folks, CRD owners in particular,


Curious to get your take on how a tuned (GRD, Malone ect.) performs against comparable JGC's 5.7 Hemi, SRT8 in terms of off the line acceleration? What have been your observations and or experiences?


TIA

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post #2 of 10 Old 06-23-2021, 08:49 AM
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After long discussing with the Mechanical Engineers in the company here, I decided to do this.
I have 2006 with 3.0 CRD engine and had the ECU tuned. Now, values are: 215 HP to 265 HP and torque from 510 Nm to 600. In terms of fuel economy, almost 0.8 lt dropped from 9s to 8s. Believe me, GC is now just like a sports car.
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post #3 of 10 Old 06-24-2021, 06:04 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input. I'm happy that you also noticed the performance boost after the tune. Although I'm older, I am still a car guy who likes to race on occasion. Now mind you, my interest in Diesel has been primarily driven by economy and reliability, but over the years tuning these engines I have come to appreciate the performance potential, especially in drag race form where the torque comes into play.


My own "unofficial" testing has been friendly street races, against 2x 5.7 Hemis a 2012 and a 2014 model. In both cases the CRD ended up several car lengths ahead. Granted, this was street racing so the distances were shorter, more than an 1/8 mile to less than 1/4 mile in distance. The results were impressive for me, considering the CRD has nearly half of the engine displacement. Either way, curious to hear other folks experiences, I know there are a few out there, even if the typical CRD owner profile is that of a stoic hypermiler.
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post #4 of 10 Old 06-24-2021, 07:33 AM
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I can see where your CRD's, the one with 600 Nm torque anyway, could beat a 5.7 in a short race, but in the quarter mile, it would probably be several (or more) car lengths behind. The CRD would just run out of power/torque. The stock 5.7's for most years run 525-575 Nm torque, but their maximum torque occurs up around 4000+ RPM, not from almost off idle like the CRD's. My 06 somewhat modified Hemi (about 100-125 hp. more than stock) is probably barely as fast as a stock Hemi until it hits 3000 RPM. Then it's like turning on another engine. I've destroyed several later model 5.7 Jeeps, but all have been from a roll, and there was no contest with any of them. I am sure the newer ones would be real close off the line, but would soon end up in my rear view mirror. I have a Tesla Model S Plaid on order and it puts out 1020 hp. and 1423 Nm torque, almost from zero mph.....1.99 sec. 0-60, and 9.23 second, quarter mile at a speed of a little over 150 mph. There is no substitute for torque to get a vehicle moving......in a big hurry.

What I find interesting with the CRD's is that you lose a little fuel economy while increasing efficiency. Does this occur, no matter how radical you go with the engine/tune? I know with the gasoline engines, you can improve efficiency to a moderate degree and improve economy, but going too radical will then cost economy. Mine, stock, used to get 12-14 mpg in town and 16-18 mpg on the highway. With the mods and stock wheels/tires, it would still get 12-14 mpg in town (but a lot more fun to drive) and 21-23 mpg on the highway at the "sweet spot" of around 65 mph. With the larger tires/wheels, the in town mileage is still the same but, the highway mileage has dropped down to 19-21 mpg. How is the economy with the CRD's, both in town and highway, and tuned in town and highway?
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06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, 6spd 545RFE, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #5 of 10 Old 06-24-2021, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post

What I find interesting with the CRD's is that you lose a little fuel economy while increasing efficiency. Does this occur, no matter how radical you go with the engine/tune? I know with the gasoline engines, you can improve efficiency to a moderate degree and improve economy, but going too radical will then cost economy. Mine, stock, used to get 12-14 mpg in town and 16-18 mpg on the highway. With the mods and stock wheels/tires, it would still get 12-14 mpg in town (but a lot more fun to drive) and 21-23 mpg on the highway at the "sweet spot" of around 65 mph. With the larger tires/wheels, the in town mileage is still the same but, the highway mileage has dropped down to 19-21 mpg. How is the economy with the CRD's, both in town and highway, and tuned in town and highway?

Typically you see the inverse. With gasoline engines, as more power is added, economy suffers, with diesel the more power added leads to greater economy, so long as you are not over fueling, i.e rollin coal.



All of the diesel turners will claim both power and economy gains vs stock. In my case in terms of US-MPG's with the Malone1.5 tune, I went up 2mpg city and 3mpg Hwy. I now get 20mpg city and 26mpg hwy vs the 18/23 I had stock with 50 less hp and 75lbs. less torque.


One limitation that diesels faced was as you mentioned, the power band. While incredible low end torque could be achieved, the engines tend to run out of steam at a much lower rpm range and suffer at higher speeds. This of course can now be mitigated with multi-speed transmissions. The WK CRDs could be both performance and economy monsters if paired with a correctly geared 7 speed.


Alas with our 5-speeds we are limited to rear gears. Most came stock with a 3.73. The transmission is better matched to a 3.07 gearing wise. A swap between the two would yield an acceleration drop in the lower range, but likely improve upper range acceleration and surely improve economy. I'm still researching this, and would be curious as to hearing what those who've done it have observed.
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post #6 of 10 Old 06-24-2021, 03:08 PM
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It's hard to beat the CRD's low end torque. I made my 545RFE into a six speed and, around town with my gas burner, I run in 4th (the original 3rd) gear to keep the RPM closer to the lower end of the power band and it doesn't shift to 5th until about 50 mph. On the highway, I drive in 5th (the original 4th) for the same reason and don't have it up shift to 6th until a little above 70 mph. I also know that, with the NAG1, the gear selection is not optimal for the CRD's. I really can't believe they (DCX/FCA) used the same gearing for the CRD's that they did for the 3.6's and SRT8's NAG1 equipped gas burners. Bet the newer ones with the 8 speeds probably work a little better. You're right, the way yours is set up, it would probably work better with 3.08-3.55 gears or so.

Here's the gearing for the NAG1 and the 8 speed:

NAG1: 1st:3.59, 2nd: 2.90, 3rd: 1.41, 4th: 1.00, 5th: 0.83
8 speed: 1st: 4.71, 2nd: 3.14, 3rd: 2.10, 4th: 1.67, 5th: 1.29, 6th: 1.00, 7th: 0.84, 8th: 0.67

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, 6spd 545RFE, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #7 of 10 Old 06-25-2021, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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That's super cool, a 6 speed. Was that conversion done splitting second gear? Wish I could do the same, or swap out 5th for 0.68. Either changing 5th (if possible ) or swaping a 3.07 rear should yield the same rpms in 5th. I love the acceleration of the 3.73, but need the rpms to drop significantly at highway speeds for the economy. Where I live, average speed of hwy traffic is 80mph. I get the best mileage 26 at around 62mph, at 80mph mileage drops to 21-22 mpg. Will probably be easier to swap rears complete vs dropping and changing 5th on the NAG1, this ain't no Tremec.
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post #8 of 10 Old 06-25-2021, 02:11 PM
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Yes, the 545RFE has 2 Prime (2P) in between 2nd and 3rd and, in the 05-06's the only way to access it is on a forced downshift. It's not accessible at all on up shifts. Caulk04 had an 08 and said he could access 2P when manually up shifting and later discovered, after picking up an HP Tuner (HPT), that he could insert 2P into the normal up shift pattern with the flip of a switch in the HP Tuner. I already had an HPT, so I picked up a couple used 2008 PCM/TCM's and started experimenting. https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/...-jeep-4402113/ The job was fairly straight forward and worked immediately, but not without some communications issues, DTC's and bus selections. Eventually, all were resolved though. I did recently have a self inflicted problem when I changed the throttle body on the 5.7. I lost all throttle control and it would only idle. Turns out there are differences between the 06 and 08 Accelerator Pedal Sensors (APS) and their interface/communication with the Forward Control Module (FCM) and the 08 PCM/TCM.

On your CRD, just like the 4.7/5.7 gas burners, if you had the 545RFE, this setup would be great for towing and mountain driving, but probably not do you much good unladened and normal highway driving. I think, on yours, I'd consider experimenting with a Mopar Performance TCM to see if you can get a little better control and shift quality of the NAG1. I have one in my 5.7 Hemi Magnum and it's like day and night different from the stock TCM. All I did to it was modify the up/down shift schedules and WOT up shift RPM. Probably the only thing you'd have to do on your CRD is change the final drive ratio in it. Other than that, my guess is that it would work perfect. If you wanted to change other settings, you'd need some sort of tuner that will modify its settings.....up/down shifts and WOT up shifts. I've found there's no need to mess with anything else.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, 6spd 545RFE, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #9 of 10 Old 07-01-2021, 06:38 AM
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Hi
I would have liked a tune done on my 2008 CRD. I was always scared that the programmers would not do it correctly and spoil my jeep which runs perfectly.

Also i was warned that some tuners, who were not pros, would just up the turbo boost and fuel flow.

I was also concerned about extra stress on the engine, transmission and drive train. Will it shorten their life?

I really do not know of a company i would trust to do it in UK.
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post #10 of 10 Old 07-01-2021, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brit30-06 View Post
Hi
I would have liked a tune done on my 2008 CRD. I was always scared that the programmers would not do it correctly and spoil my jeep which runs perfectly.

Also i was warned that some tuners, who were not pros, would just up the turbo boost and fuel flow.

I was also concerned about extra stress on the engine, transmission and drive train. Will it shorten their life?

I really do not know of a company i would trust to do it in UK.
well to make more power tends to be a more Fuel or Air thing...as long as the EGTs dont go over its limits wont burn up. Not the same engine but on our diesel one has 7 tunes on the fly. stock and two tow, 2 for just power and the 7th ones to hot to really use much. Last time i did it snapped a 10.5 axle shaft towing about 7k off the line. as well it rolls coal by 7th tune that is like a old train. But its old school diesel too. one has 275k miles other is at only 195,00 hardly broke in.


Tesla S P ...... ( jealous). I have Tesla stock. I wont be buying another fuel burner again the JK was the last and im done with Fiat too and Ford/Gm. Im to old to need another vehicle really. What we ave now can go another 150k easy( not the Jk its fiat wont go 100k) has had a new head already so that game is done at 20k well done fiat. Dont see any E trucks that can do what they claim right now. Even Tesla truck if it had say 500 miles range that is not towing say 10k. even a idiot like me knows that at best it might go 250. but is that with AC on? how about all lights and trailer lights? Full load. Now one of our trucks holds 44 gallons. towing at say 65 that is about 12/13mpg. Now the car is very cool Model s would be good for me. its still faster then most things and what 140k? they start at what 75k?

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