Will's first Jeep! WKGC CRD - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 147 Old 01-30-2021, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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Will's first Jeep! WKGC CRD

Soo... I now own the WKGC from this thread: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/...-mode-4423007/

First question: Is this a stock 2007 WK wheel? If not, what's it from? It looks just like the 2013-2018 17x7.5 Wrangler wheel, but those are black, right?



The story:
I totally bought a 212,000 mile WKGC CRD that I had not seen run and which I was told needed a transmission or transfer case for significantly under "book". The yard told me it has "drag" driving around the lot and wouldn't shift out of first gear.

I know the engine is a basically bullet proof Benz OM642. I daily drive a 2005 Benz E320 CDI with the OM648 engine and think it's great. It has 195k, so the mileage range is similar.
The transmission is the same between the two cars. It's also pretty close to bullet proof.

I saw that it had mismatched wheels/tires front to rear and knew that can cause problems with AWD/4WD systems. I deduced that the differing wheels speeds front to rear would cause the QD2 system to think that the faster-turning rears are spinning and lock up the center diff. It has the above-pictured wheels on the front, with a pair of WJ 16x7 wheels wearing 225/75-16's on the back.

I did the deal and got it on the dolly. Yard people actually used a loader to get it on the dolly while I was inside. My dad and I disconnected the rear driveshaft.... and it didn't want to roll. Oooops. Thinking it was a seized caliper, we got a rear wheel off only to discover gouges around the inside of the wheel. We determined that the caliper bracket had done the damage and that the 16's were just too small for the WK rear brakes.

The vehicle sales team was still there wrapping up paperwork or something, but the parts team had gone home for the day. That meant I couldn't just buy some WK wheels and roll out with it. However, the sales team gave me an option that was probably better: have a transporter move the vehicle. They do that all the time and guesstimated that the cost would be around $200-$250. That's a great price for me not having to mess with it, so I left it there for them to deal with.

It will probably show up (at my dad's house) middle of next week. I need to have some 17's ready to go to make sure it can come off the roll back ok. To that end, I want to know what 17's are currently on the front, as I asked above.

The next question is: do I buy two more Mud-Terrain T/A 255/75-17's ($260/ea from TireRack... oof), or four of some other tire? I notice there was 1/4-3/8 between the tire and the tip of the upper ball joint stud on the front. Are there fitment problems with this size or specific tire on the rear?

//

The yard said they tried the "key on with water bleed open" method of checking the fuel pump which I relayed to them. I'm thinking that once it will roll, I'll take it somewhere I can let it warm up over night, then try to start it. This should eliminate summer fuel as the problem, although that's unlikely as it doesn't get that cold here. If it's actually the fuel pump, I'll have a local shop do that. Bleh.

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post #2 of 147 Old 01-30-2021, 09:12 PM
Gray203m
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2008 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: RM Pense
Posts: 471
Garage
Ok, a lot to unpack here.

Rims: definitely look like a wrangler rim. Bolt patterns are the same.

Tires: the 255/75R17s are a little large, but should be OK. Stock is 235/60R17 up to 245/65R17. You can request a build sheet from a dealership to get the size that it came with. Those mud terrains are absolute garbage on ice, and loud on the road, so I personally wouldn't recommend them for a daily driver.

Not rolling: both driveshafts would need to be disconnected or the transmission/transfer case put in neutral. The transfer case is full time 4wd, so the front will still be trying to turn.

As for starting: no idea. You'll need to get it warm and try to start it and go from there. That fuel pump test they did is only for the lift pump, which runs ~120psi. Try to start it, scan for codes if necessary, go from there.

I've had my CRD for about 3 years now, currently at 303,000km. Other than some minor issues, the drivetrain has been nothing but reliable

2008 WK CRD North
GDE Eco Tune, DPF Delete
2" RC lift, 265/65R18 Duratracs
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post #3 of 147 Old 01-31-2021, 12:07 PM
Zroe89
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There is a fuse, I think it is in slot 41 of the fuse block under the hood. Check that and your fuel pump relay before assuming it is the fuel pump.

You can usually buy a set of 4/5 wheels and tires from a JK/JL for $600 when they decide to put bigger wheels and tires on their mall crawlers.

Sent from my moto g stylus using Tapatalk
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post #4 of 147 Old 02-01-2021, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray203m View Post
Ok, a lot to unpack here.

Rims: definitely look like a wrangler rim. Bolt patterns are the same.

Tires: the 255/75R17s are a little large, but should be OK. Stock is 235/60R17 up to 245/65R17. You can request a build sheet from a dealership to get the size that it came with. Those mud terrains are absolute garbage on ice, and loud on the road, so I personally wouldn't recommend them for a daily driver.

Not rolling: both driveshafts would need to be disconnected or the transmission/transfer case put in neutral. The transfer case is full time 4wd, so the front will still be trying to turn.

As for starting: no idea. You'll need to get it warm and try to start it and go from there. That fuel pump test they did is only for the lift pump, which runs ~120psi. Try to start it, scan for codes if necessary, go from there.

I've had my CRD for about 3 years now, currently at 303,000km. Other than some minor issues, the drivetrain has been nothing but reliable
It was actually cheaper/easier to find 17x7.5 Laredo wheels locally, so I have 5 of those on the way.

The not rolling problem was caused by the 16" WJ wheels on the back dragging on the brake calipers.

I snagged the build sheet from https://fcacommunity.force.com/RAM/s/equipment-listing and 245/65-17s are OE. Thanks for the tip!

I'm expecting I'll be able to put a lot more miles on this rig with a few minor repairs. I got a great deal on it considering the mileage as well.
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post #5 of 147 Old 02-01-2021, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zroe89 View Post
There is a fuse, I think it is in slot 41 of the fuse block under the hood. Check that and your fuel pump relay before assuming it is the fuel pump.

You can usually buy a set of 4/5 wheels and tires from a JK/JL for $600 when they decide to put bigger wheels and tires on their mall crawlers.

Sent from my moto g stylus using Tapatalk
I also ran across mention of a connector under the fuse block that can cause problems intermittently. I'll look for both. Thanks!
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post #6 of 147 Old 02-01-2021, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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What front diff is in a WK? Dana 35? Something new and unique?

The rear is a modified Chrysler 8 1/4, right?
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post #7 of 147 Old 02-02-2021, 01:38 PM
azzkicker
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Location: Beaverton
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Welcome to the forum. Wow, that needs a lot of work.

Having the mismatch tires has probably rubbed the transfer case clutches down to nothing. I agree it will see the mismatch in speed as spinning wheels, and try to clamp down on the driveline mismatch. It will fail, but it will heat up and wear.

I destroyed my clutches by using a tow dolly and not doing what you did (remove the rear drive line). I had not read the instructions, because I usually don't until it's too late.

You're right the calipers require a 17" rim. I can't tell you about your tire size, but I can say that if the front works, the rear is very unlikely to have an issue with the same size tire. I'm lifted and running 33's, and other than the rear driveline hitting because of the lift, the rear has been no issue while I have ripped TPMS recievers off, rubbed on the body, the fender liner, etc up front. I'm using the size of tire the lift says it's made for, by the way.

07 WK 5.7 QD2, 4" lift, 33X10" tires, two M8000s
ARB twin air,Dual AGM group 49, sliders and skids
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post #8 of 147 Old 02-03-2021, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azzkicker View Post
Welcome to the forum. Wow, that needs a lot of work.

Having the mismatch tires has probably rubbed the transfer case clutches down to nothing. I agree it will see the mismatch in speed as spinning wheels, and try to clamp down on the driveline mismatch. It will fail, but it will heat up and wear.

I destroyed my clutches by using a tow dolly and not doing what you did (remove the rear drive line). I had not read the instructions, because I usually don't until it's too late.

You're right the calipers require a 17" rim. I can't tell you about your tire size, but I can say that if the front works, the rear is very unlikely to have an issue with the same size tire. I'm lifted and running 33's, and other than the rear driveline hitting because of the lift, the rear has been no issue while I have ripped TPMS recievers off, rubbed on the body, the fender liner, etc up front. I'm using the size of tire the lift says it's made for, by the way.
Thanks!
I've bought way worse. To get a $3500 discount vs KBB for wheels/tires and a fuel pump doesn't seem bad to me. We'll see how healthy the QD2 system is once I get it on the road. The big question is how long it was run that way... Not sure why some idiot traded it in, but I've been hoping he just threw some wheels he had lying around at it to get it to the junk yard. Not even sure how he moved it with 16's, so it can't have been going that way very long.
A friend owns an H3 Alpha (5.3 V8) w/ off-road package (front & rear factory e-lockers, 4:1 T-case) and has a slight lift with 35's on it right now. He really wants to go wheeling with me, so I don't think it'll be too long before I find out what's working and what's not.

What size wheels & tires do you have? What make/model tire?
I was kind of surprised that every WK model except the SRT-8 used a 17x7.5 wheel... I would have thought some higher trims would get a 17x8 or 8.5.
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post #9 of 147 Old 02-03-2021, 09:04 AM
azzkicker
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I'm thinking the rubbing rear wheels wouldn't be rubbing if it had been forever. Sadly, I don't think it takes long, like a tow dolly trip to the junk yard, to do in your clutches. Hopefully that was a flatbed trip. I would assume so until there's evidence otherwise.

The good news is, even with mine towed for at least a thousand miles behind my RV that way, it was still very drivable. It threw a "service 4 wheel drive" EVIC warning or something like that, but it went about driving normally. I replaced it because I offroad this as a toy, and I wanted it working properly, but I think I had a very serviceable all wheel drive that would have driven for years with no ability to lock up.

07 WK 5.7 QD2, 4" lift, 33X10" tires, two M8000s
ARB twin air,Dual AGM group 49, sliders and skids
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post #10 of 147 Old 02-03-2021, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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I was pleased to find out that the NV245 has geared AWD and the clutches only provide lockup.
I have an '88 BMW 325iX that's similar. The AWD is geared with a 35/65 torque split and a viscous coupling to control wheel spin. Guess what gets destroyed by a two wheel tow?
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post #11 of 147 Old 02-04-2021, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azzkicker View Post
I'm thinking the rubbing rear wheels wouldn't be rubbing if it had been forever. Sadly, I don't think it takes long, like a tow dolly trip to the junk yard, to do in your clutches. Hopefully that was a flatbed trip. I would assume so until there's evidence otherwise.
It definitely wouldn't have driven its way there with the wheels rubbing, and clearly it didn't show up on a dolly, so I'm thinking the prior owner threw some wheels on it and then went to the yard/dealer, who sent a rollback. I remain hopeful that all the clutches are in reasonably good shape.
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post #12 of 147 Old 02-04-2021, 12:37 PM
Grinmaul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray203m View Post
Ok, a lot to unpack here.



Tires: the 255/75R17s are a little large, but should be OK. Stock is 235/60R17 up to 245/65R17. You can request a build sheet from a dealership to get the size that it came with. Those mud terrains are absolute garbage on ice, and loud on the road, so I personally wouldn't recommend them for a daily driver.
Fyi, you can get the build sheet by putting your vin at the end of this url, worked for both my CRD's anyways.

https://www.chrysler.com/webselfserv...etServlet?vin=

edit: i see OP posted another way as well.

2 2008.5 WK CRD's, 2005 WK Limited 5.7
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post #13 of 147 Old 02-05-2021, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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Originally Posted by Grinmaul View Post
Fyi, you can get the build sheet by putting your vin at the end of this url, worked for both my CRD's anyways.

https://www.chrysler.com/webselfserv...etServlet?vin=

edit: i see OP posted another way as well.
The link I posted actually queries the same app on jeep.com instead of chrysler.com... so they're both going to the same system.
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post #14 of 147 Old 02-05-2021, 09:18 AM
Grinmaul
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edit, unable to delete a post

2 2008.5 WK CRD's, 2005 WK Limited 5.7
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post #15 of 147 Old 02-09-2021, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
DarkSideofWill
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Ehh... no big. Good to have options.

Pics to follow sometime...
Over the weekend I got the mismatched wheels off and installed stock base model GC Laredo wheels with stock size 245/65-17 Kumho RoadVenture AT51 tires. We had some problems with the "jacketed" lug nuts being overtightened, but overcame those by chiseling the jackets off.

I sent a pic to a friend, who said it still looked high. I checked in the front wheel wells and find Rough Country's 2" spacer lift: https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-su...kee-4wd-736848
However, there are no spacers in the rear. It might have actual 2" lift springs there.

Also, my friend noticed that the front wheels and tires on it when delivered are stock JK Rubicon fare. I already knew the wheels were JK's, but didn't realize the tire size was stock Rubicon. I'm now leaning toward keeping those two and snagging another pair to use for trail days, while keeping the Kumhos for bad weather city driving and mall crawling.

My dad and I diagnosed the fuel pump and found the fuses and relay all worked. I didn't find the production break above the rear U-joint in the rear driveshaft until later, so we have not actually checked that yet.
I spoke with a local mechanic who said he could do the fuel pump. After dealing with German cars that have fuel pump access hatches in the floorpan, having to drop the tank to change the fuel pump just seems like bull**** to me.
I decided I should drop the gas tank shield to help him out, as I wanted to pay him to get covered in diesel fuel, not worry old bolts out of the body. My point of reference was my dad decades ago installing a gas tank shield in his '79 Suburban, and then again a few years later when he got his current '90 Suburban. The tank had its own straps and the shield bolted in on top of it.
However, when the gas tank shield is standard equipment, OEM thinking is "Why do we need to buy extra tank straps?". Of course it wasn't until I pulled the next-to-last bolt and had the tank come down with the shield that I realized this. At that point I thought "Well the tank's coming down now!" Everything I was wearing that day now smells like diesel fuel.
Also, one of the 6x 12mm bolts holding the shield in broke. The shield had taken some abuse, too. One of its straps is twisted from being dragged over something and a spot weld is broken.
I'm thinking about having the local engine machine shop run the tank through their parts washer, and then POR-ing it. I'm also wondering how much effort I should put into cleaning up/preserving the shield before I put it back up. The crevice volume between the shield and tank is ripe for collecting dirt and mud that will retain water. The internet is full of stories of rusted tanks and shields.

The salvage yard had swapped the original giant diesel battery for a normal sized battery. I put a charger on it and it took a while to come up from 75%, so at least it seems to be in good shape. I'll have to price an AGM battery in the correct size and see if I want to throw down that kind of scratch.
So next weekend (after I put my Northstar short block together! :-D ) I'll throw the battery back in it and check to verify there's voltage at the fuel pump connector above the rear axle
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