P73 Recall Experience - Page 21 - JeepForum.com
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post #301 of 314 Old 02-02-2019, 12:40 PM
JeepBrian
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Hi Jeff:
What fixed your problem?
As I see it:
The only input to the transfer case is the shift motor. The motor moves and can be locked. Its position controls shift position 4H, N, and 4L along with torque ratio between front and back drive shafts. Both axles have their torque ratio between left and right controlled by clutch application. The clutch application is controlled with a pulse with modulated voltage. With this system, torque can be applied in any ratio to all 4 wheels independently.
The only relevant intelligence the system receives is wheel and transmission output angular velocities.
Process this and produce torque to the most needed wheel.
The voltages that I supplied were actual ones read at the final drive controller during road testing. I used the 5 Volt common as zero reference.
I hope this all helps.
Brian

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post #302 of 314 Old 10-06-2019, 02:05 PM
Avs
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I picked up a 2006 wk 5.7l overland not too long ago with 136k miles. All of a sudden I get the “service 4wd system” on the dash while pulling out of my driveway. When I shifted from reverse to drive there’s a long clunking noise then the engine immediately shut off. I did the start and shut off a few times and the problem seem to went away. I also took it for a 30 min drive and the drive seems to drive fine and no clunking whatsoever when shifted from park, reverse, neutral, drive etc.
So I went on the fca recall website to check the vin and both the n23 and p73 recalls were completed. From what I understand, I should be only getting this error message when I want to activate the 4wd lo. Does this recall affect the overland model as well with the front electronic diff ever tho I didn’t activate the 4wd lo? From what I gather, some people are able fix this issue by going back to the pre-flashed fdcm and some need to replace the transfercase actuator. Sorry a n00b a bit late to this fiasco. TIA!
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post #303 of 314 Old 07-23-2020, 11:11 AM
Jerry39047
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Recall just hit me square after jeep purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepCares View Post
Hi 99sajeep,

We always recommend getting any open recalls on your vehicle performed. You can view further information on any past or current recalls on your vehicle by entering your VIN here: _________________________________. If you have any concerns with your vehicle after the recalls are performed please PM our page and let us know, we’d be happy to look into it further for you. You can also locate dealerships nearby by entering your zip code here:_________________________________ Please let me know if you have any additional questions!

Andrea
Jeep Social Care Specialist



Headed back to the dealership in the morning, because after they did the flash, cruise no longer works, MPG went from 18mpg to UNDER 8MPG?!?!?
Clunking underneath, and instrument cluster lights are on.

I've been on the jeep site, and registered, but from reading here and other forums, some have opened a Star case and had the actuator replaced. IF that is the problem causing all this, shouldn't it be included in the recall? I understand all Jeep's have "personality", however my jeep now is possessed after having this flash done 2 days ago.
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post #304 of 314 Old 07-24-2020, 07:17 AM
JeepCares
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry39047 View Post
Headed back to the dealership in the morning, because after they did the flash, cruise no longer works, MPG went from 18mpg to UNDER 8MPG?!?!?
Clunking underneath, and instrument cluster lights are on.

I've been on the jeep site, and registered, but from reading here and other forums, some have opened a Star case and had the actuator replaced. IF that is the problem causing all this, shouldn't it be included in the recall? I understand all Jeep's have "personality", however my jeep now is possessed after having this flash done 2 days ago.
So sorry to hear this! If we can help with anything, feel free to send us a PM with more details.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
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post #305 of 314 Old 07-24-2020, 12:38 PM
Jerry39047
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This was predicted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepCares View Post
So sorry to hear this! If we can help with anything, feel free to send us a PM with more details.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares



Dealership did the recall flash.


Cruise stopped working
Transfer case started clunking
Instrument lights all came on
ABS started engaging on dry pavement
AND my MPG's went from 16hwy to 5mpg. 5mpg. (no idea why)


Dealership (shop foreman) told me today that none of those are recall flash related (even tho they all started a DAY after being flashed)
They still have the jeep and are talking with Jeep, whatever that means.
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post #306 of 314 Old 07-24-2020, 12:43 PM
Jerry39047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepCares View Post
So sorry to hear this! If we can help with anything, feel free to send us a PM with more details.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares



I am unable to send PM's, I'm new here and my post count isn't high enough
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post #307 of 314 Old 07-25-2020, 05:21 AM
Jeff2010
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Transfer case issues

Hi Jerry,
If it is any help please take a look at the following link.

https://certifiedtransmission.wordpr...eck-the-axles/

It is now quite a long thread but worth reading it all.

You could have a binding front diff or maybe a similar problem to mine where the reflash tightened the transfer case shift parameters to an accuracy the position indicator on the transfer case actuator could not keep up.
It appeared (from the polished wear marks on the rotary position sensor) mine was flitting between high ratio unlocked position and about 10deg (see photo below, wear in 5 o'clock position) to the what I assume is the high ratio locked position (which literature does not mention but I assume this is there for when driving on icy roads and the wheel speed sensors detect slippage - you would not want it to clunk down into low ratio transfer case lock at any speed).

I have not been able to verify the absolute cause of my binding transfer case issue but 1 year on and it is still working after the following simple fix. For some reason the right rear hand brake was dragging slightly. The cable actually pulled inwards on its return spring instead of allowing the cable to release out the way. The simple fix was to back off the hand brake adjuster. It works and continues to work. I have not pulled up the rear seat yet to see why the cable spring returns it the wrong way but I suspect it has a poorly adjusted walking beam arrangement where the single front cable splits to the 2 rear wheels (under the rear seat). It looked like you have to remove wires from the transmission controller to get at it so I did not want to temp fate and have just left it alone.

I still don't know exactly how the rear axle communicates a dragging brake (only slightly, with no huge heat build up in hub) to the transfer case controller but this is the only explanation I can find. The rear diff assumed it was experiencing a slippery road road condition and locked partially and the transfer case says "if you are playing, I want to play too", and locks the transfer case (front to rear), then next thing you know drive shafts start thumping as there is no where for the locked up torque in the axles to go (as there is in fact no wheel slippage).
The thump or bang you experienced when shifting from drive to reverse is symptomatic of torque building up in drive shafts. If you are anywhere near the guys who write the blog above I would head there and forget the dealer. Not sure if jeep deliberately keeps the dealers in the dark but their denial of any problems with programming (or the sticking front diff solenoid valve issue) is worrying. My problem went from lock up once in 100miles to 4 times in 12miles after the reflash.
I did not even get a sensible reply from Jeep who I contacted many times about the issues I was having (they just said take it to the dealer - after I had already taken it to the dealer for the recall work and explained the
suspected center diff lock up to them- and they wanted me to sign a form saying any service or diagnosis work would be at my cost - no matter the fault! - not likely I was going to agree to that.

Good luck - check the axles!
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post #308 of 314 Old 07-25-2020, 06:00 PM
Jerry39047
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Greatly appreciate the info. Unsure if I'm gonna be able to convince the dealer of any of this, but I highly suspect that front actuator as the clunking is front the front on cold start. That would also explain the drastic mpg drop. Doesn't explain why the cruise control stopped working, however.
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post #309 of 314 Old 07-25-2020, 06:04 PM
Jerry39047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff2010 View Post
Hi Jerry,
If it is any help please take a look at the following link.

https://certifiedtransmission.wordpr...eck-the-axles/

It is now quite a long thread but worth reading it all.

You could have a binding front diff or maybe a similar problem to mine where the reflash tightened the transfer case shift parameters to an accuracy the position indicator on the transfer case actuator could not keep up.
It appeared (from the polished wear marks on the rotary position sensor) mine was flitting between high ratio unlocked position and about 10deg (see photo below, wear in 5 o'clock position) to the what I assume is the high ratio locked position (which literature does not mention but I assume this is there for when driving on icy roads and the wheel speed sensors detect slippage - you would not want it to clunk down into low ratio transfer case lock at any speed).

I have not been able to verify the absolute cause of my binding transfer case issue but 1 year on and it is still working after the following simple fix. For some reason the right rear hand brake was dragging slightly. The cable actually pulled inwards on its return spring instead of allowing the cable to release out the way. The simple fix was to back off the hand brake adjuster. It works and continues to work. I have not pulled up the rear seat yet to see why the cable spring returns it the wrong way but I suspect it has a poorly adjusted walking beam arrangement where the single front cable splits to the 2 rear wheels (under the rear seat). It looked like you have to remove wires from the transmission controller to get at it so I did not want to temp fate and have just left it alone.

I still don't know exactly how the rear axle communicates a dragging brake (only slightly, with no huge heat build up in hub) to the transfer case controller but this is the only explanation I can find. The rear diff assumed it was experiencing a slippery road road condition and locked partially and the transfer case says "if you are playing, I want to play too", and locks the transfer case (front to rear), then next thing you know drive shafts start thumping as there is no where for the locked up torque in the axles to go (as there is in fact no wheel slippage).
The thump or bang you experienced when shifting from drive to reverse is symptomatic of torque building up in drive shafts. If you are anywhere near the guys who write the blog above I would head there and forget the dealer. Not sure if jeep deliberately keeps the dealers in the dark but their denial of any problems with programming (or the sticking front diff solenoid valve issue) is worrying. My problem went from lock up once in 100miles to 4 times in 12miles after the reflash.
I did not even get a sensible reply from Jeep who I contacted many times about the issues I was having (they just said take it to the dealer - after I had already taken it to the dealer for the recall work and explained the
suspected center diff lock up to them- and they wanted me to sign a form saying any service or diagnosis work would be at my cost - no matter the fault! - not likely I was going to agree to that.

Good luck - check the axles!



Where is the transfer case actuator located? I am not seeing it on alldata.
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post #310 of 314 Old 07-28-2020, 08:43 AM
Jerry39047
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Dealer has not even LOOKED at my jeep and it's been there since Friday morning!! Pathetic I wonder if I disconnect that front dif actuator if it would be ok to drive temporarily
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post #311 of 314 Old 07-30-2020, 03:57 AM
Jeff2010
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Transfer case issues

Hi Jerry,
Not entirely sure what would happen if you disconnected the front diff solenoid and the result might depend on if it is indeed sticking. If stuck in the actuated position the hydraulic pressure will continue to lock the front diff (if that is indeed what is causing your issue). I would phone the guys mentioned in the check the axles blog and ask to speak with Chris. They maybe could recommend a transmission shop near you that has the knowledge.
My transfer case actuator was actually working ok it was just getting spurious signals and maybe not reporting back its position accurately (or the software does not report when 4wd high is engaged - I would have thought a traction light of similar should come on but noticed nothing - no fault codes either). Fixing the dragging brake cured the problem completely.
I know for sure it was transfer case lock up since in one lock up (the second instance it happened), we were driving down a windy hill road on tar seal but with loose chip. We did not notice the lock up or thumping shafts because of the down hill and lots of corners but when we reached the bottom of the hill we noticed a hot rubber smell and looking under he car the transfer case was roasting and warm enough to make the mastic separate on the sound deadening over the transfer case which fell onto the front drive shaft and CV joint. Took quite a bit of back and forth, in and out of 4wd low, to get the transfer case unlocked so we could continue our journey. In the next 100miles it did it once more. I took it to the dealer for the reflash and explained the problem I had thinking the recall would fix the problem but alas it made it 10 times worse and after the reflash it locked up every 4 miles approx.
I did buy a new actuator but never fitted it. Fixing the dragging hand brake has completely fixed the problem - but I still don't know exactly why. The rotary actuator is on the LHS of the transfer case under the bash plate but I would not jump to this for a solution - check the axles are working properly first as it seems this front solenoid issue is quite common - more common than my problem!
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post #312 of 314 Old 08-01-2020, 06:57 AM
Jerry39047
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Fixed...finally

The local dealer is a JOKE.



Had the jeep for 3.5 days and never even looked at it. Just stated it's not recall related.


Took it to an old friend who plugged into the OBD2 port, reset everything to factor defaults, engaged low range in and out twice, that released all the actuators and it's been running fine ever since.


I did have to replace the drivers rear wheel sensor, unsure why that went bad at the same time.


My opinion, don't get the p73 flash. Just don't lol.
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post #313 of 314 Old 08-02-2020, 08:39 PM
CavallinoRed
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Jerry39047

If the dealer is telling you that the N23 recall (and the subsequent P73 issued to have N23 flash redone) that resulted in loss of 4Low and giving "Service 4x4 System" errors is not related to the transfer case actuator, here is the original finding that resulted in the N23 recall that shows that the problem was a result of cracked tracings in the actuator's circuit board.

And here's my post made when i was really pissed off about the whole mess https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f777...ained-3100337/

Sad to hear that FCA is still giving owners grief as P73 was only issued to control the costs of all the transfer case actuators being replaced under N23 but if you read it, if the re-flash does not correct the the loss of 4Low/Service 4x4 System issue, the actuator is to be replaced. Doubt you'll ever get them to process the needed STAR case as takes a cooperative dealer to get it through.

So sucks all around but at least you can give this to your dealer to show them they are full of it.
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File Type: pdf 13V-175-2005-10-GC-2006-10-Commander-573-Supp-6-6-2013.pdf (572.2 KB, 5 views)
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post #314 of 314 Old 08-03-2020, 07:24 AM
99sajeep
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^^^ This is why I throw away every recall notice I still get from FCA (N23 & ignition). Even after 235k miles, I rarely have the 4Low issue. But when it happens, I pull the fuse and I'm good.

Last time I pulled the fuse was over almost 2 years ago and I regularly check my operation status just to see if I'm good. I've been lucky... (keeping my fingers crossed)

'05 WK 4x4 Ltd 5.7L (mine) 200k+ club
'01 WJ 4x4 Laredo 4.7L (daughter)
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