P0420 After Spraying Throttle Body - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 25 Old 09-11-2019, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
Billbo1970
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P0420 After Spraying Throttle Body

Hey guys,

I've been doing weekend maintenance, and a couple weeks ago I took the air intake tube off and sprayed the throttle-body with GDI Intake cleaner. I was manually moving the flap, which I later found out was a bad thing to do....

Anyway, once I put it back together and drove it to blow out all the carbon smoke, P0420 came on. I figured it was from that deep cleaning, so drove it around with some Regane High Mileage cleaner in the tank, then reset the CEL.

Light came back on with the same code. Figured I'd hosed an 02 sensor, as that's a common code for when the sensors go. With 133k miles on the truck, figured I'd replace all 4 since they're all original. Replaced all 4 sensors, reset the CEL... light came back on, still P0420.

Could cleaning the throttle body have killed that Cat?! Could manually moving the throttle flap on my drive-by-wire throttle have done something? Idles same as ever, no decrease in gas mileage, only indication there's a problem is CEL. I don't hear any exhaust leak either.

I do hear a whine like a wheel bearing, but it's only at 65-70mph and only when on the gas... so I think that's probably a front diff bearing going bad?

Advice? Thanks!

2009 3.7 V6 WK 133,000 miles.


Regards,
Bill

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post #2 of 25 Old 09-12-2019, 09:40 AM
Raffish
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What wrong with manually moving the butterfly? I've done it a few times with no apparent ill effects. How else can it be done?

The manual says to not use any cleaners for the 5.7 but no such warning for the 3.7..

You can test if a cat is purring with a laser thermometer, should be a 100+ difference on either side when functioning.

05 WK Limited 5.7, QDII, OME HD, 265/70/17 1.25" Spydertrax, CC, MBRP SS, 250xxxkms
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post #3 of 25 Old 09-12-2019, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
Billbo1970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raffish View Post
What wrong with manually moving the butterfly? I've done it a few times with no apparent ill effects. How else can it be done?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your '05 has a throttle cable you can pull on? My '09 is drive-by-wire electronically controlled, there is no throttle cable to pull on...

Regards,
Bill

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post #4 of 25 Old 09-12-2019, 10:45 AM
Raffish
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5.7 is driving by wire..

05 WK Limited 5.7, QDII, OME HD, 265/70/17 1.25" Spydertrax, CC, MBRP SS, 250xxxkms
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post #5 of 25 Old 09-12-2019, 10:49 AM
RCS1300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billbo1970 View Post

Could cleaning the throttle body have killed that Cat?! Could manually moving the throttle flap on my drive-by-wire throttle have done something?

I do hear a whine like a wheel bearing, but it's only at 65-70mph and only when on the gas... so I think that's probably a front diff bearing going bad?

2009 3.7 V6 WK 133,000 miles.
Unlikely that cleaning throttle body killed the Cat. Manually moving the throttle should produce no issues. Have someone put a scanner or oscilloscope on the front and rear O2 sensors to confirm the P0420. That person will look at the wave forms of each O2 sensor. I assume you are not the original owner. It is possible that a previous owner had an issue that sent un burned fuel into the Cats and burned one or both out. Such a problem could be neglecting to change out the spark plugs when needed.

The sound is a tricky one. Have your local shop put the vehicle on a lift and put it in drive to listen for and pinpoint the problem.
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post #6 of 25 Old 09-12-2019, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
Billbo1970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS1300 View Post
I assume you are not the original owner. It is possible that a previous owner had an issue that sent un burned fuel into the Cats and burned one or both out. Such a problem could be neglecting to change out the spark plugs when needed.
Thanks for the response RCS. No, I'm not the original owner, but I got it with only 36k miles on it, and I've since put on an additional 97k, bringing it to 133,000 miles. I do the maintenance like clockwork, and probably change the plugs more frequently than necessary

As for the noise, I'm thinking it's a front diff bearing... I put that off WAY too long, due to not knowing it needed to be changed more frequently than the ATF fluid

It's also time to replace those front axle bushings...

Regards,
Bill

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post #7 of 25 Old 09-12-2019, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raffish View Post
5.7 is driving by wire..
Ah, OK. So that probably rules that out then.

Regards,
Bill

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post #8 of 25 Old 09-16-2019, 11:29 PM
Armor_LG
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If you need a new TB, I have one off a 2010 3.7 in good condition, 75kish miles on it. Just looking to clear up space so whatever price you think is fair plus shipping.

Black WK #180

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post #9 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 07:15 AM
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the only code is P0420?
You did use a NTK or a jeep o2 sensor?

You cleared the P0420, did the codes or other codes return? Best to us a scanner.

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #10 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
the only code is P0420?
You did use a NTK or a jeep o2 sensor?

You cleared the P0420, did the codes or other codes return? Best to us a scanner.
I used NTK CARB sensor, which when I pulled out the old one, I see is the exact same sensor, so Jeep uses NTK as OEM. Yes, just P0420. I have a scan tool, cleared the code, and it returned.

I bought some Spark Plug No-Foulers, and offsetting the sensor did not alleviate the problem, even when using two of them, which I thought was odd.

I then plugged up one of the no-foulers with permatex, so that the sensor will not get any reading at all from the exhaust. Code came back again anyway, which I thought was really odd... but then after a few dozen miles the code cleared itself... which I also thought was odd, but was happy.

Then a couple hundred miles later (TODAY), with O2 sensor still not getting air, I am getting P2096 & P2271 codes. One code is a bank1 rich, and the other is a bank1 lean... SUPER ODD! Is this from preventing the 2nd sensor from receiving exhaust air???

Regards,
Bill

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post #11 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
Billbo1970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armor_LG View Post
If you need a new TB, I have one off a 2010 3.7 in good condition, 75kish miles on it. Just looking to clear up space so whatever price you think is fair plus shipping.
Thanks for the offer, but I really don't think I need a new one. The butterfly valves still operates correctly.

Regards,
Bill

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post #12 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 02:12 PM
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first lets remove the anti foulers- Smack whoever suggested that idea.

With the sensors installed correctly, you tried to clear code with scanner? It Would not clear correct?
I would drive a drive cycle and see if the 2 post fouler codes clear before we go on, I am thinking the Einstein idea might have caused the new codes, the sensors not shifting at all.

With your scanner lets give a quick look at ECT, Fuel trims, and o2 sensor voltages. Want to see if anything upstream is out of spec and cat cannot clean the mix up.

Might try getting a long drive seeing if heat will clean up any cat issue from over rich caused by additives, as we check on new post cat codes (P22xx) and check upstream readings....

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #13 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
Billbo1970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
first lets remove the anti foulers- Smack whoever suggested that idea.
I will remove them in the morning.

Quote:
With the sensors installed correctly, you tried to clear code with scanner? It Would not clear correct?
The P0420 & P0430 would return after a couple dozen miles. NO CODES WHATSOEVER (not even pending) prior to cleaning out the throttle-body. No-fouler worked for P0430 on Bank2 and no new codes for bank2 with the no-fouler.

Quote:
I would drive a drive cycle and see if the 2 post fouler codes clear before we go on, I am thinking the Einstein idea might have caused the new codes, the sensors not shifting at all.
That's what I'm thinking as well.

Quote:
With your scanner lets give a quick look at ECT, Fuel trims, and o2 sensor voltages. Want to see if anything upstream is out of spec and cat cannot clean the mix up.
I have a much more basic scanner, just displays codes and allows clearing of them. I plan to get a better one, but at the moment this is all I have.

Quote:
Might try getting a long drive seeing if heat will clean up any cat issue from over rich caused by additives, as we check on new post cat codes (P22xx) and check upstream readings....
I've put about 300miles on since this issue all started, and one of the 1st things I tried was running a bottle of CataClean through the system. That was nothing more than a waste of $25.

Regards,
Bill

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post #14 of 25 Old 09-17-2019, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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@jtec

Just to clarify, all four sensors are brand-new NTK CA Emissions sensors from Rockauto. Only the 2 downstream sensors have the no-foulers installed, 1/1 & 2/1 are straight to the pipe, so should be reporting correct data to the PCM.

Regards,
Bill

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post #15 of 25 Old 09-18-2019, 10:22 AM
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the voltages pre and post cat are needed to work this code.
Ideally the pre and post voltages are graphed and stacked for comparison.

My thinking if the pre cat are HIGH the post cats might not show improvement ...
With the sensor plugged it COULD not show a acceptable voltage sweep,

Also silicone is a sensor killer.

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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