Ok this is my last question about exhaust manifold bolts...I hope. - JeepForum.com
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By Avs
  • 2 Post By 90grandoneer
  • 1 Post By 2005JGC
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 01-22-2020, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
clemsonscj
Registered User
1930  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anderson
Posts: 438
Ok this is my last question about exhaust manifold bolts...I hope.

So I know I need (per side) 4 studs, 4 nuts, and 5 bolts. Pricing it out online and itís gonna run me about $55ish per side not counting the gaskets. However I found a set that comes with 4 studs, 4 nuts, and 4 bolts for $30ish per side not counting gaskets. From the research Iíve done, it seems as though itís almost always the studs that break and not the bolts. So that being the case, does anyone see a problem with me buying the kit that leaves me 1 bolt short and just reusing a bolt that I pull out? I suppose I could order 2 bolts and still come out cheaper than buying it piece by piece, but if itís not necessary then I would like to just avoid it all together.


'09 GC Overland 5.7L QDII; OME HD Lift; 265/70R17 Ridge Grapplers; SC Flashpaq
Black WK Club #134
clemsonscj is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 01-23-2020, 12:01 AM
gspfunk
Registered User
 
gspfunk's Avatar
2019 WK 
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: North DFW, Tx
Posts: 213
Garage
I use all bolts on my 6.1 w( Kooks. The only downside, if itís not corroded, is all the heat cycles itís already been thru.

19 Sting-Gray WK2 Trailhawk | Hemi | MRR | Ridge Grapplers
08 Silver WK1 SRT8
gspfunk is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 01-23-2020, 05:56 AM
Avs
Registered User
2006 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 103
Ok this is my last question about exhaust manifold bolts...I hope.

Youíre in there any way..whatís another bolt cost you vs if you need to do the work again to replace one bolt?
2005JGC likes this.
Avs is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 Old 01-23-2020, 09:17 AM
90grandoneer
Moderator
 
90grandoneer's Avatar
2006 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: City of Trees
Posts: 3,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by clemsonscj View Post
So I know I need (per side) 4 studs, 4 nuts, and 5 bolts. Pricing it out online and itís gonna run me about $55ish per side not counting the gaskets. However I found a set that comes with 4 studs, 4 nuts, and 4 bolts for $30ish per side not counting gaskets. From the research Iíve done, it seems as though itís almost always the studs that break and not the bolts. So that being the case, does anyone see a problem with me buying the kit that leaves me 1 bolt short and just reusing a bolt that I pull out? I suppose I could order 2 bolts and still come out cheaper than buying it piece by piece, but if itís not necessary then I would like to just avoid it all together.
Do you have an industrial hardware place near you? If so, go talk to them about the different bolt/stud qualities and, whatever you do, pick up stuff that is at least machine quality......not automotive stove bolt quality. On all 3 of my Hemi's I have machine quality flange head bolts and use Nord-Lock Wedge Washers so they'll never come loose, and Percy's Seal-For-Good flange gaskets. IMO, it's the only way to go. Also, with the stock manifolds, since there isn't a problem with the bolts, why not use all bolts and NO studs/nuts???
Walt and JeepN_A_CJ7 like this.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
90grandoneer is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 01-23-2020, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
clemsonscj
Registered User
1930  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anderson
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
Do you have an industrial hardware place near you? If so, go talk to them about the different bolt/stud qualities and, whatever you do, pick up stuff that is at least machine quality......not automotive stove bolt quality. On all 3 of my Hemi's I have machine quality flange head bolts and use Nord-Lock Wedge Washers so they'll never come loose, and Percy's Seal-For-Good flange gaskets. IMO, it's the only way to go. Also, with the stock manifolds, since there isn't a problem with the bolts, why not use all bolts and NO studs/nuts???
Is the heat shield not necessary?

'09 GC Overland 5.7L QDII; OME HD Lift; 265/70R17 Ridge Grapplers; SC Flashpaq
Black WK Club #134
clemsonscj is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 01-23-2020, 01:38 PM
90grandoneer
Moderator
 
90grandoneer's Avatar
2006 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: City of Trees
Posts: 3,817
I don't know if it's absolutely necessary with the stock cast iron logs, but all 3 of my Hemi's (2 LX's and 1 WK) no longer have any heat shielding with the tubular headers. The SRT came with the factory tubular headers (dual wall though) and no shielding at all. I will say that the headers on the other two though (both came with factory shielding) are titanium or ceramic coated and I've never had any problems in about 12-13 years on the LX and about 9 years on the WK. The coatings are suppose to help dissipate the heat. You may want to consider that with the cast logs if you have a coating company near you. Cost for the long tubes on the WK (complete long tube headers and the intermediates with cats.) was about $200. I would guess that just doing two short logs would only cost about $100 or a little less.

I think, on the WK, the biggest problem area would be on the driver's side where the big wire loom runs close to the exhaust manifold. You could also insulate that wire loom instead if you're worried about it.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
90grandoneer is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 01-23-2020, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
clemsonscj
Registered User
1930  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anderson
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
I don't know if it's absolutely necessary with the stock cast iron logs, but all 3 of my Hemi's (2 LX's and 1 WK) no longer have any heat shielding with the tubular headers. The SRT came with the factory tubular headers (dual wall though) and no shielding at all. I will say that the headers on the other two though (both came with factory shielding) are titanium or ceramic coated and I've never had any problems in about 12-13 years on the LX and about 9 years on the WK. The coatings are suppose to help dissipate the heat. You may want to consider that with the cast logs if you have a coating company near you. Cost for the long tubes on the WK (complete long tube headers and the intermediates with cats.) was about $200. I would guess that just doing two short logs would only cost about $100 or a little less.

I think, on the WK, the biggest problem area would be on the driver's side where the big wire loom runs close to the exhaust manifold. You could also insulate that wire loom instead if you're worried about it.
So I did some research and I should be able to find plenty of stuff to insulate that wire loom and whatever else may pose a risk. So assuming I go with all flange bolts, does this look like it would be a good option for the bolts: https://www.belmetric.com/8mm-12poin...mjvc62gp5tqep7

When I looked up the factory part number it said it was an M8x1.25x46. Those are M8x1.25x45. I doubt the 1mm difference should matter right? And I also read that the factory bolts are 10.9 grade/class. So I figure the 12.9 grade/class should be a better quality and potentially last a bit longer.

'09 GC Overland 5.7L QDII; OME HD Lift; 265/70R17 Ridge Grapplers; SC Flashpaq
Black WK Club #134
clemsonscj is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 01-25-2020, 05:11 PM
90grandoneer
Moderator
 
90grandoneer's Avatar
2006 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: City of Trees
Posts: 3,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by clemsonscj View Post
So I did some research and I should be able to find plenty of stuff to insulate that wire loom and whatever else may pose a risk. So assuming I go with all flange bolts, does this look like it would be a good option for the bolts: https://www.belmetric.com/8mm-12poin...mjvc62gp5tqep7

When I looked up the factory part number it said it was an M8x1.25x46. Those are M8x1.25x45. I doubt the 1mm difference should matter right? And I also read that the factory bolts are 10.9 grade/class. So I figure the 12.9 grade/class should be a better quality and potentially last a bit longer.

I use the 10.9 six point flange head bolts, 8mm-1.25 X 25mm and, because they're shorter (3/8 in. header flanges on all of mine), I don't need quite the strength of the longer ones needed for the stock manifolds. I would think for yours, the 12.9 six point flange head bolts would work fine. IMO, the 12 point ones you're showing have too small a flange on the head (can't get good washers on them) and would maybe be "harder"?? to wrench than than the 6 point ones. Not absolutely sure about that though, as I've never used a 12 point bolt on any automotive component. Also, being a little longer wouldn't hurt because the holes threaded into the head are quite deep. Double check though, how much of the threads stick out on the head side of the manifolds. It should be about a half an inch. If you use Nord-Lock Wedge Washers, you can use anti-seize on the bolt threads and it will not compromise the security of the manifolds.
This will help during the installation and tightening. Just be sure not to cross thread....which shouldn't be a problem with the longer bolts.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
90grandoneer is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 01-25-2020, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
clemsonscj
Registered User
1930  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anderson
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
I use the 10.9 six point flange head bolts, 8mm-1.25 X 25mm and, because they're shorter (3/8 in. header flanges on all of mine), I don't need quite the strength of the longer ones needed for the stock manifolds. I would think for yours, the 12.9 six point flange head bolts would work fine. IMO, the 12 point ones you're showing have too small a flange on the head (can't get good washers on them) and would maybe be "harder"?? to wrench than than the 6 point ones. Not absolutely sure about that though, as I've never used a 12 point bolt on any automotive component. Also, being a little longer wouldn't hurt because the holes threaded into the head are quite deep. Double check though, how much of the threads stick out on the head side of the manifolds. It should be about a half an inch. If you use Nord-Lock Wedge Washers, you can use anti-seize on the bolt threads and it will not compromise the security of the manifolds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKwWu2w1gGk This will help during the installation and tightening. Just be sure not to cross thread....which shouldn't be a problem with the longer bolts.


Ok thanks for the info. I probably will do the Nord-Lock washers. Iíve done a little more research into it and apparently the bolts breaking isnít because of the quality of bolts, but because the heads, manifolds, and bolts are all 3 separate materials that heat and cool at different rates causing warping and the warping of the manifolds along with the continuous heat cycles just causes the bolts to become brittle and break. At least that was several peopleís explanation of it and it makes sense.

So that being said Iíll probably stick with 10.9 bolts since itís easier to find 6 point bolts. But do you see a problem with doing full threads rather than a partial thread bolt? And Iím also having a problem finding the proper length in the black bolts. Is there any reason not to go with yellow zinc or is there something special about the black coated bolts?

'09 GC Overland 5.7L QDII; OME HD Lift; 265/70R17 Ridge Grapplers; SC Flashpaq
Black WK Club #134
clemsonscj is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 01-26-2020, 08:17 PM
90grandoneer
Moderator
 
90grandoneer's Avatar
2006 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: City of Trees
Posts: 3,817
I am not sure, but I would think that the bolt that is threaded all the way would not be as strong as the one threaded on the end only. Also, don't know too much about the different coatings. Mine are all cad or nickel plated.....silver. Bottom line for me is that I pretty much went with what the guy at the industrial hardware place said, as he is suppose to be the expert. So far I've never had any problems.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
90grandoneer is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 01-27-2020, 05:25 PM
JeepN_A_CJ7
Member
 
JeepN_A_CJ7's Avatar
1980 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 136
Garage
Thanks for the heads up on the Nord-Lock washers and gaskets! Once I finish with this shift solenoid and TransGo shift kit install, my exhaust manifolds are the next things to get fixed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
Do you have an industrial hardware place near you? If so, go talk to them about the different bolt/stud qualities and, whatever you do, pick up stuff that is at least machine quality......not automotive stove bolt quality. On all 3 of my Hemi's I have machine quality flange head bolts and use Nord-Lock Wedge Washers so they'll never come loose, and Percy's Seal-For-Good flange gaskets. IMO, it's the only way to go. Also, with the stock manifolds, since there isn't a problem with the bolts, why not use all bolts and NO studs/nuts???

Always Jeepin!

*2007 WK QDII HEMI
*1980 CJ7 4.2L w/FAST FI

Silver WK Club


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JeepN_A_CJ7 is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 01-27-2020, 05:41 PM
2005JGC
Registered User
 
2005JGC's Avatar
2005 WK 
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Portland
Posts: 487
Garage
For how tight the engine bay is in a WK, Especially with a Hemi. I would personally run heat shields at all costs. I also spend time in the middle of nowhere flogging on my jeep. Much more costly to get towed to safety when something fails than in town running errands. I am sure there are plenty running without, not having had any problems. I would never argue they are destined for failure. But I would prefer not to add anything to the "potential future problem" list with what I do with mine.
JeepN_A_CJ7 likes this.

2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee - Work in progress...
2005JGC is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 02-02-2020, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
clemsonscj
Registered User
1930  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anderson
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
I am not sure, but I would think that the bolt that is threaded all the way would not be as strong as the one threaded on the end only. Also, don't know too much about the different coatings. Mine are all cad or nickel plated.....silver. Bottom line for me is that I pretty much went with what the guy at the industrial hardware place said, as he is suppose to be the expert. So far I've never had any problems.
Alright so Iíve put a lot of through into this and I think Iíve figured out what Iím gonna do. Since time is my most limiting factor, I wanna make sure Iím not gonna have to get back in there and redo anything. So after watching several videos online and seeing just how warped the manifolds get Iíve decided that Iím for sure getting new manifolds to replace these. Obviously gonna do new gaskets as well.

Since the bolts are the cheapest part of this whole thing, Iíve decided to order the studs and some extra flange bolts...that way when I get in there and have a good look I can make up my mind then about whether or not I feel comfortable leaving the heat shields off, and Iíll have the parts to go either way. Iím hopefully gonna be able to do the passenger side here in the next couple weeks and hopefully be able to get around to the driver side some time in March. Iím doing the passenger side first since it has both rear bolts broken and the driver side only has 1...so I assume the passenger side is probably leaking much worse than the driver side.

'09 GC Overland 5.7L QDII; OME HD Lift; 265/70R17 Ridge Grapplers; SC Flashpaq
Black WK Club #134
clemsonscj is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome