Need help with WJ driveline diagnosis. - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
OldJim
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Need help with WJ driveline diagnosis.

I apologize in advance for the hit and run post, and appreciate any help offered.

I have an '05 WJ that I bought as an "emergency car" for my wife (we are quite rural). It's a high mile urban warrior that was driven until all of the fluids had been exhausted. $500 bucks and fluids, I figured it would get her to town if her little wagon couldn't. Unfortunately the wagon was totaled last week, and the Jeep called into service.

A week previously we had taken it (the Jeep) to town and it was fine.

Saturday it seemed okay on the back roads under 25 MPH, but as soon as we hit the secondaries at 40 something was obviously wrong. Almost sounded like tire noise, but she had tame cityfolk shoes, and the noise was new. Not quite a wheel bearing .. front diff?

(I'm a codger and have wrenched quite a few rodeos)

The diff was indeed relatively dry - a quart remaining, but the oil surprisingly clean.

I shored her up on timbers to try to hear where the noise was coming from, but it was quiet - although an intermittent grind/rattle from the transfer case near the front output.

I've spent the last 12 hours pulling it apart. Surprisingly the wheel bearings, half shafts, and U-joints are all in good condition.

I still suspect the front diff, it's quite hard to turn either of the wheel flanges, though both drive forward silently when the vehicle is in gear.

That said, And so a few questions:

Perhaps blasphemy here, but I'm in a bind with limited funds and resources, and we need a car this week. Can I just remove the entire front axle, half shafts, and driveshaft and run it as a two wheel drive if I have to for a few months?

This morning with fresh eyes I notice that it's "stuck" in 4WD and doesn't seem to come out - although I can put it in 4WL according to the dash light. Does this vehicle HAVE a 2WD high range? Am I overthinking the whole thing, the problem simply that it's latched up in 4WD on the highway and the noise might be normal for the mode? (if so, a simple matter of mucking around with the selector motor on the transfer case - although it really hasn't hurt getting a handle on the condition of things, joints, bushings, which are in far better shape than I expected given it's history).

Am I missing something else stupidly simple?

Any help is highly appreciated, I thank you for your replies in advance.

Jim.

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post #2 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 06:47 AM
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I’m not sure what you have going on but reading through your post I notice you didn’t mention if you filled the front diff and tried it out.

Also, people will be able to help more if you post the engine and model and all other relevant info.

Good luck.
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post #3 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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The more I think about it .. Mechanical failures tend to build. This was relatively sudden.
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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I didn't (test it after filling - except on blocks). It would take an hour to get her off blocks, and a 30 mile round trip until I could get her to the blacktop to test her out - as she's quiet as a church mouse at low speeds on the dirt.

How she's built? Frankly not sure. (5.7?) Hemi. Says so on the sticker. Trans, case, and diff? I've been out of this too long. Nothing that I recognize from Kaisers or C/K's. If she had a '44 and NP-205 I wouldn't be scritching my head. Not sure if decoding the VIN might help.
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post #5 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldJim View Post
I didn't (test it after filling - except on blocks). It would take an hour to get her off blocks, and a 30 mile round trip until I could get her to the blacktop to test her out - as she's quiet as a church mouse at low speeds on the dirt.

How she's built? Frankly not sure. (5.7?) Hemi. Says so on the sticker. Trans, case, and diff? I've been out of this too long. Nothing that I recognize from Kaisers or C/K's. If she had a '44 and NP-205 I wouldn't be scritching my head. Not sure if decoding the VIN might help.

If you're stateside and your Grand Cherokee is an '05 with a Hemi, then you've got a WK. I'll move this thread to the WK section, they'll be better able to help you out.


For the record, there are some '05 WJ's out there, but they're export market produced vehicles.

His: '00 WJ 4.7 Limited- Some stuff

Hers: '03 WJ 4.7 Laredo- Some more stuff


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post #6 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldJim View Post
I didn't (test it after filling - except on blocks). It would take an hour to get her off blocks, and a 30 mile round trip until I could get her to the blacktop to test her out - as she's quiet as a church mouse at low speeds on the dirt.

How she's built? Frankly not sure. (5.7?) Hemi. Says so on the sticker. Trans, case, and diff? I've been out of this too long. Nothing that I recognize from Kaisers or C/K's. If she had a '44 and NP-205 I wouldn't be scritching my head. Not sure if decoding the VIN might help.
Some things you need to know. an 05 WK with a Hemi ( first year ) will undoubtedly have the quadra Drive II 4x4 system. Electric lockers both front and rear and full time AWD/4x4 . Transfer case is NV245

The vehicle will not move if you try to drive it without the front driveshaft and you could damage it if you try. The differentials require 70W140 and additional friction modifiers for the LSD clutches. Trans Case requires NV245 Mopar fluid .

Get the fluid filled and back together and drive it again and let us know what's up from there. Look for rocks and mud stuck in the dust shields.

Do you have an engine light up or good scanner to extract codes ?
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 11:01 AM
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Check the CV joint on the front prop shaft, common failure and sounds horrible when bad..

05 WK Limited 5.7, QDII, OME HD, 265/70/17 1.25" Spydertrax, CC, 250xxxkms
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post #8 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yzjwk View Post
Some things you need to know. an 05 WK with a Hemi ( first year ) will undoubtedly have the quadra Drive II 4x4 system. Electric lockers both front and rear and full time AWD/4x4 . Transfer case is NV245

The vehicle will not move if you try to drive it without the front driveshaft and you could damage it if you try. The differentials require 70W140 and additional friction modifiers for the LSD clutches. Trans Case requires NV245 Mopar fluid .

Get the fluid filled and back together and drive it again and let us know what's up from there. Look for rocks and mud stuck in the dust shields.

Do you have an engine light up or good scanner to extract codes ?
Thanks for moving me .

Yes Quadra II, on the console.

Okay, full time - that's one question mark negated.

"The vehicle will not move if you try to drive it without the front driveshaft ... Get the fluid filled and back together and drive it again"

Whoops. Wish I could post a picture of how far torn down she is. Lol. You'd be surprised how far an old booger can go in a day with armstrong kit. Ah well, better to find out now. I'll start stitching her together. That'll be the rest of this day. Yay, and it`s been raining all week.

I had previously looked it up, but to be honest, I loathed to go full dealer branded fluid - in total that's about half what this thing cost me. The front is full of generic 80/90 which in my experience was better than 0/0.

At 400+K, known to have been run out of oil at least twice (I put 5 quarts into it when I bought it!), and occasionally dropping a gear (which I have yet to deal with) I`ve never seen this vehicle as worth preserving long term. Although admittedly, the chassis is in far better condition than I expected. (if it were an XJ in the same condition, I`d toss money at it rather than eat for a month!). I just need it not to kill my wife for the next 30 days, and as much as God and I may love her - she`s just as bad as the previous owner for ignoring warning lights and indications that Motorhead may be squatting somewhere in the driveline and rocking out at eleven point six.

She says that`s why she keeps me around.

Anyway, will put her back together, take her out, and retrieve any new (there are already a few non critical, evap and catalyst IIRC) codes if my reader will see them, and get back to you.

Much thanks again so far
Jim.
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 11:25 AM
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If it has QDII and the front diff fluid isn't correct and clean or the solenoid has jammed then the front end will make some funny noises when turning, when you're going straight it should still be fine.


For the fluid only the modifier needs to come from the dealer, you can get the rest of the fluid elsewhere. If you're trying to save a few bucks fluid that comes with its own limited slip additive is likely good enough.

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post #10 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underscore View Post
If it has QDII and the front diff fluid isn't correct and clean or the solenoid has jammed then the front end will make some funny noises when turning, when you're going straight it should still be fine.


For the fluid only the modifier needs to come from the dealer, you can get the rest of the fluid elsewhere. If you're trying to save a few bucks fluid that comes with its own limited slip additive is likely good enough.
I tried Royal Purple that said it had friction modifier in it and was getting a grinding until I added half a bottle of Mopar friction modifier to it...

BTW Mopar RTV is sets in an hour after install and is as cheap as any kind..

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post #11 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 11:53 AM
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...For the fluid only the modifier needs to come from the dealer, you can get the rest of the fluid elsewhere. ....
To OP: You need 75W-140 synthetic gear oil in the differentials, plus 4 oz. of MOPAR Friction Modifier in each axle.

Mobil-1 75W-140 is a good affordable brand for the gear oil and goes ~$20 per quart; you need 2 qts. per axle. Think the MOPAR Friction Modifier runs ~$10 per bottle at the dealer.

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post #12 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raffish View Post
I tried Royal Purple that said it had friction modifier in it and was getting a grinding until I added half a bottle of Mopar friction modifier to it...

BTW Mopar RTV is sets in an hour after install and is as cheap as any kind..

I had Lucas synthetic that said the same and it cleared up the front diff noise that my WK came with, chasing another problem I changed it again but put in the modifier as well and it *seems* to work the same. Granted everything may have appeared fine without the modifier purely because of any damage done by the previous owner.

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post #13 of 19 Old 05-15-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by OldJim View Post
Thanks for moving me .

Yes Quadra II, on the console.

Okay, full time - that's one question mark negated.

"The vehicle will not move if you try to drive it without the front driveshaft ... Get the fluid filled and back together and drive it again"

Whoops. Wish I could post a picture of how far torn down she is. Lol. You'd be surprised how far an old booger can go in a day with armstrong kit. Ah well, better to find out now. I'll start stitching her together. That'll be the rest of this day. Yay, and it`s been raining all week.

I had previously looked it up, but to be honest, I loathed to go full dealer branded fluid - in total that's about half what this thing cost me. The front is full of generic 80/90 which in my experience was better than 0/0.

At 400+K, known to have been run out of oil at least twice (I put 5 quarts into it when I bought it!), and occasionally dropping a gear (which I have yet to deal with) I`ve never seen this vehicle as worth preserving long term. Although admittedly, the chassis is in far better condition than I expected. (if it were an XJ in the same condition, I`d toss money at it rather than eat for a month!). I just need it not to kill my wife for the next 30 days, and as much as God and I may love her - she`s just as bad as the previous owner for ignoring warning lights and indications that Motorhead may be squatting somewhere in the driveline and rocking out at eleven point six.

She says that`s why she keeps me around.

Anyway, will put her back together, take her out, and retrieve any new (there are already a few non critical, evap and catalyst IIRC) codes if my reader will see them, and get back to you.

Much thanks again so far
Jim.
Not sure if you know who Red Green is, but to quote him .. "If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."

As stated above, it could be just the 80w90 in the diffs causing the issue. I'm sure the ELSD clutches won't like it too much, but even just the friction modifier might help if your in a pinch. I just paid $10/bottle the other week.. Can't see it being more in the US .

Good luck, Let us know how it goes .
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
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You're right .. Recently had to service my Clown Victoria's 8-1/2" open diff - just filled it with dinosaur shelf schmoo because i know it's good enough for the ancient axle design, not the same familiarity with this jeep, so for proper diagnostics I'll pony for all OEM fluids - though it's a 4 hour round trip to the nearest dealer. Ugh.

Drained the transfer case - had exactly 48 ounces of decidedly low viscosity near black fluid, doesn't smell burnt, but I'll bet it'll leave some crap if I were to put it through a coffee filter - so will refill this with the right stuff too.

It's not that I'm cheap by nature .. just hadn't decided whether or not this is a basket case. Wife says she likes it, so in for a penny.

I'm in Canada BTW, Northern Ontario. Gov't has all but killed car culture, no aftermarket to speak of, and the wreckers cube and cart quickly, so parts availability kind of sucks. The mantra here is "lease it for 3 years, do over". I've even had to pull my old 'rod off the road after 27 years because the insurers won't touch it for under $6K year.

Ah yes, don't get me started on them. Wife's wagon is a write off for the sake of two commonly available doors that I could replace in 2 hours. Car was so popular in that coulor that i could probably find the correct ones without paint. Nope says them - it's a write off, sucks to be you, and no you can't buy the salvage title.

Thanks so far for all the help, will update later.

Jim.
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post #15 of 19 Old 05-16-2019, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by OldJim View Post
You're right .. Recently had to service my Clown Victoria's 8-1/2" open diff - just filled it with dinosaur shelf schmoo because i know it's good enough for the ancient axle design, not the same familiarity with this jeep, so for proper diagnostics I'll pony for all OEM fluids - though it's a 4 hour round trip to the nearest dealer. Ugh.

Drained the transfer case - had exactly 48 ounces of decidedly low viscosity near black fluid, doesn't smell burnt, but I'll bet it'll leave some crap if I were to put it through a coffee filter - so will refill this with the right stuff too.

It's not that I'm cheap by nature .. just hadn't decided whether or not this is a basket case. Wife says she likes it, so in for a penny.

I'm in Canada BTW, Northern Ontario. Gov't has all but killed car culture, no aftermarket to speak of, and the wreckers cube and cart quickly, so parts availability kind of sucks. The mantra here is "lease it for 3 years, do over". I've even had to pull my old 'rod off the road after 27 years because the insurers won't touch it for under $6K year.

Ah yes, don't get me started on them. Wife's wagon is a write off for the sake of two commonly available doors that I could replace in 2 hours. Car was so popular in that coulor that i could probably find the correct ones without paint. Nope says them - it's a write off, sucks to be you, and no you can't buy the salvage title.

Thanks so far for all the help, will update later.

Jim.
I hear you, the whole vehicle industry is F$%^& here. Insurance and repair companies are forced to source locally and we all get screwed for it. How is it I can buy a part "made in Canada" at Rock Auto and pay 30% exchange and another 15% in shipping and duties and still come out paying half of what Piston Ring /NAPA will sell it to me ? And that's after their so called "master mechanic/ jobber" BS pricing

Hopefully the dealer doesn't hoop you for the modifier and NV245 . Like mentioned, get the gear oil at crappy Tire or somewhere.

Good luck

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94 ZJ Ltd 5.2 ,00 WJ 4.0
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