Head Gasket Help - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 24 Old 02-16-2020, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
Skeetswk
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Head Gasket Help

I was doing my usual oil change in my drive way on my 2005 Jeep wk 5.7 with 172k miles. When I cracked open the oil drain bolt, coolant started coming out first, not a lot, but enough for me to notice. The oil and coolant was not mixed. The rest of the oil after that was just the usual real dirty dark color. When I lifted the oil cap there was the whitish sludge type substance on the cap and in the filler tube. I knew this was from the oil and coolant mixing. I finished the oil change with fresh oil and filter. I drove another 100 miles and checked again today. When I checked the oil cap today there was only a small amount of white sludge. However I did crack the bolt to see what would come out. About a shot glass or two worth of pure coolant started streaming out followed by the fresh oil. I quickly tightened the bolt back up to not drain the rest of the oil.


Can the two substances be mixing from anywhere else besides a head gasket leak or cracked head? Iím assuming mine is just a head gasket

Is there a write up on how to replace the head gasket on my hemi? I plan to do it myself. I have been looking into it, but not a lot of specific information is available.

I picked up the basics of the job.
-Exhaust manifold going to be a pain.
-Replace spark plugs while at it.
-There is a torque spec sequence on the head bolts.
-Canít reuse head bolts.

Still wondering
Is there anything else I should do when Iím in there?
Specific tools I need besides fuel line disconnecting tool?
Will my cheap tekton torque wrench be good enough for this job?
Anything I need to keep an eye out for or clean when the head is off?
Best way to get off exhaust manifold?
Do I have to service or deal with the lifters in any way?
Any official right up out there on the entire job?
Anything Iím missing?


This is my first time dealing with real engine work.
Thankful for all information you guys have to offer

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post #2 of 24 Old 02-16-2020, 04:35 PM
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I did it on a 2007 4.7 v8, I'm assuming the 5.7 is more complicated but you should grab the factory service manual from here, it has all the steps for removing the cylinder heads.

The other possible explanation for the coolant in there apart from head gasket or cracked cylinder head is a cracked block, which unless it overheated pretty badly its highly unlikely.

I would say head bolts could be reused provided they are in good shape (refer to the factory service manual for the bolts spec) otherwise replace.

while you're there might as well change the exhaust manifold gasket, timing cover gasket (its usually RTV, sometimes is a gasket), they cheap enough and you gonna need a harmonic balancer puller otherwise you cannot take the damper out to take the timing cover off; yeah a fuel line disconnect tool is needed for the fuel rail.

When the cylinder heads are out I would recommend checking the valves for leaks and checking the heads themselves to see if they are warped, if they are you gonna need to send them to be machined.

If this is your first time doing all of this I really recommend that you research putting the engine timing correctly, otherwise the engine wont start and even worse if you did the reassembly with bad timing you gonna need to take it all off.
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-16-2020, 06:50 PM
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It's not that big a deal but, if this is your first shot at it, just take your time, have the right tools (and good foot and inch lb. torque wrenches). The 5.7 is completely different than the 4.7, so a lot of stuff is different....mostly easier. You MUST use new head bolts as the old ones may look fine, but have stretched. They only cost about $20 per side. The head gaskets are different (left and right) and must be installed with the correct side facing up.

You don't have to mess with the timing cover unless you want to. If you're worried about the timing set, I can tell you I did the heads on my 6.1 (164K on it) and installed a new performance cam/lifters and had a valve job and new valve springs installed. The PO, my Grandson, had run the wrong oil in it and 10 of the 16 lifters were bad and the cam was complete toast. The timing set was a little worn but not bad enough to warrant replacing. I installed a new timing chain tensioner though. If you pull the timing cover for any reason, install a new 6.1 tensioner. They're more stout than the 5.7 ones and are interchangeable.

Definitely have the heads checked for cracks and, if good, have all the valve seats replaced. This will require a valve job which you will need anyway. Although the intake valve seats are the most important and the ones that drop most often, it doesn't cost that much more to do them all. If your automotive machine shop does heads, they'll for sure know about the early Hemi dropped valve seat problem. If they don't, go somewhere else. I've replaced all the valve seats on both of my early 5.7 Hemi's and had .030 in. milled off them to raise the compression ratio by about a half point....about 9.6 to 10.2:1 . IMO, new valve seats are good insurance. If it were me, I'd replace the valve springs too. You may also want to do a before and after compression check so you can see how much difference there may be. Do it with a fully charged battery each time. If the compression pressures are good going in (I'd say above about 160-170 PSI), you should end up with a good running engine going out.

When pulling the heads, you may be able to just disconnect the head (Y) pipe from both heads and pull them with the exhaust manifolds still on. I don't remember, because I've had headers on mine for about the last 11 years and they have to be disconnected from the heads before removal. Once off, check the manifolds for flatness and surface if needed. Replace all the studs/bolts/nuts to insure you won't likely end up with broken ones down the line......a common problem on the 5.7's. Use a good flange gasket to insure a tight exhaust manifold to head connection. I use Percy's Seal-4-Good, dead soft aluminum gaskets on all 3 of my Hemi's.

While the heads are off, you may as well check the roller lifters. Do one cylinder at a time and keep them "clocked" the way they came out, so they'll rotate in the same direction they did when you took them out. Check the rollers for pitting, galling, scoring, out of round condition, and play (there should be none) between the roller axle and needle bearings. If there are ANY problems here, you should pull and replace the cam and lifters. This is why I changed the cam and lifters in my 6.1. See pix below. FYI, a new performance cam and new, made in Germany factory replacement roller lifters ran me about $800.

Be sure to torque EVERYTHING to the published specifications and in the proper order....do it twice to make sure first bolts torqued are still at the correct settings.

This should get you going in the right direction.
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-26-2020, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the late response, but thank you guys for all the help!! My head gasket, head bolts, spark plugs, fuel line disconnection set and good torque wrench is all in the mail on the way. I ended up deciding not to mess with too much other stuff while in there. I am going to definitely inspect the valve seats to see to if they are starting to pop out or not. If I see one starting to come out, then I will definitely do a valve job. After doing a lot of research I know how everything should look that you guys mentioned.

I am actually starting the project this weekend
Wish me luck!!
Sorry for the late response again, I will let you know how it all went after.
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post #5 of 24 Old 02-26-2020, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeetswk View Post
Sorry for the late response, but thank you guys for all the help!! My head gasket, head bolts, spark plugs, fuel line disconnection set and good torque wrench is all in the mail on the way. I ended up deciding not to mess with too much other stuff while in there. I am going to definitely inspect the valve seats to see to if they are starting to pop out or not. If I see one starting to come out, then I will definitely do a valve job. After doing a lot of research I know how everything should look that you guys mentioned.

I am actually starting the project this weekend
Wish me luck!!
Sorry for the late response again, I will let you know how it all went after.
You more than likely won't be able to tell if there is a problem by just looking, especially when the head is cold and the valves are still in place. The problem is the lack of proper interference clearance between the metal seat and the aluminum head, which you can't see. Chrysler did not make the press fit tight enough. When the machinist was cutting the intake seats out of one of my 5.7 heads (only about 80K on the engine), one of them started spinning in the head before it was half way cut out. He said this could have been a candidate for a drop, but there's really no way to tell for sure. All the other seats (intake and exhaust) on both heads were machined out without any of them spinning before completely cut out. On yours, with over 170K on it, I'd recommend for sure that you have them at least checked (and replaced if necessary) while the heads are already off. By chance have you done a search on the internet for, "early Hemi dropped valve seats"? If not, you should before you make your final decision on which direction to go. After all, it's your money and your decision. Since the majority of the dropped seats have been on the intake side, if you wanted to save a "very" few dollars (my seat replacement was about $10-15 per valve plus the valve job), you can just have the intake seats replaced. I also had to have some valve guides replaced on several of the heads. My philosophy has always been that, doing the job right the first time is much better than having to do it over a second time. Example: on one of these Chrysler forums, one guy dropped a seat on one head and had just the head fixed. A few weeks later, one dropped on the other cylinder bank. I've heard of another one that massively overheated on the Interstate and couldn't get out of traffic in time. He ended up with, IIRC, 4 or 5 dropped seats, a couple on one side and two or three on the other side.

Good luck, take your time, have fun and please keep us posted on your progress.

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post #6 of 24 Old 02-26-2020, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding. I came to that conclusion after watching a guy deal with the dropped valve problem in his same gen hemi in his charger. Looking back I think this was just because the valve seat was already hanging havle way out.
I was more deterred from even looking into the valve seat issue because I thought it would be out of budget to have them replaced by a shop. But 10-15 is much less than I thought.
Do I need to do a full valve job and replace guides or just a seat replacement? I'm curious how much this would be. I should probably start calling my local shops for other cost numbers if I am thinking about going through with it.
And your philosophy makes sense and is definitely the proper way to do it. I just came into the repair with more down and dirty and get it done mindset to get it back on the road.
I need to do more research on the issues before I decide.
I will make sure to keep you guys updated after first day of work.
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-27-2020, 01:41 PM
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Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding. I came to that conclusion after watching a guy deal with the dropped valve problem in his same gen hemi in his charger. Looking back I think this was just because the valve seat was already hanging havle way out.
I was more deterred from even looking into the valve seat issue because I thought it would be out of budget to have them replaced by a shop. But 10-15 is much less than I thought.
Do I need to do a full valve job and replace guides or just a seat replacement? I'm curious how much this would be. I should probably start calling my local shops for other cost numbers if I am thinking about going through with it.
And your philosophy makes sense and is definitely the proper way to do it. I just came into the repair with more down and dirty and get it done mindset to get it back on the road.
I need to do more research on the issues before I decide.
I will make sure to keep you guys updated after first day of work.
Having a valve seat already hanging out (probably keeping that valve open) is very lucky. Most aren't that fortunate and end up doing serious damage to the engine......anywhere from about $2000-10000, depending on the damage and the type of rebuild the owner wants to do. Did you get a chance to look up the dropped valve seat problem on the web?

As far as budget goes, I am sure prices vary all over the place, depending on your locale, the labor prices and how much they gouge you on the price of parts and labor. Yes, with new seats/valve guides, you'll need a valve job. The shop I take my stuff to specializes in engine building and cylinder head work. On my 5.7 (the low mile one), I pulled the receipt and the bulk of the cost was, of course labor, which I am sure would stand true for you too. The price for all 16 valve seats was $48.00, 8 new valve guides was $20.00, 2 valves (one intake, one exhaust) was $17.00, R and R the seats was $250, install and hone 8 valve guides was $112.00, the valve job was $250.00, and final clean and assembly was $106.00.

Calling a few local machine shops that specialize in head work is a good idea, and I am sure you'll get a range of prices. I interviewed the machinists and looked at cleanliness of the shops too to make sure they knew what they were doing, ran a clean shop, and whether or not they had experience with the Hemi's. The top end gasket kit from RockAuto cost about $200.00. Once put back together, you'll need 7 quarts of oil (synthetic preferred), a filter, all new HOAT type anti-freeze and enough DISTILLED water to make a 50/50 mix for the cooling system.....all accomplished before the first engine start.

IMO, just getting the job done, down and dirty is not a good way of doing it. Taking your time and paying attention to detail is, as a rule, a much better and less costly approach.

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post #8 of 24 Old 02-28-2020, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for all that information on pricing!! Very specific and a helpful breakdown

First day of work done! Got it to the point where heads are the first thing to come off tomorrow morning. Everything went real smooth besides a few broken clips. When taking off the intake, in the center of the engine I found a mouse nest, clear chew marks on the foam and made into a pile, with walnuts and a few other things Hahahha. But luckily doesnít look like they chewed through any wires. No clue how old that is. But I found it funny. Maybe there the ones giving my car bad luck.

It is looking like a three day project however. Its the putting together that is going to take a long time. I am going to make sure everything is cleaned and anti seized and torque to proper step of course. I think I may have exaggerated before when i said it was a down a dirty job. Lets just say i can't even make myself not properly torque a bolt on my jeep, or improperly doing a job.


I think I may have to opt out of the valve job sadily. I know it is definitely best to get it done ( after looking up and seeing how common) and I would love to just get it done while at it, but just isn't practical for my current situation. Im not sure if I have the time or want to drop that much more money into the jeep. Have had to deal with a lot of repairs. Keep in mind I am 19 go to college and deliver pizzas haha( in a different car of course). Along with that, the jeep is in my dad machine shop and dont think it can sit in there for to much longer with some new machines coming in. This all said of course before I pull the head, who knows might see something that isn't good and change my mind. Also if i'm not mistaken I can buy aftermarket heads for a similar price that have claimed to fix this issues. Which is another option besides a valve job, not sure what i would do.
Knowing my luck the seats are gonna drop within the next 500 miles. Then ill learn my lesson haha
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-29-2020, 09:13 AM
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Thank you so much for all that information on pricing!! Very specific and a helpful breakdown

First day of work done! Got it to the point where heads are the first thing to come off tomorrow morning. Everything went real smooth besides a few broken clips. When taking off the intake, in the center of the engine I found a mouse nest, clear chew marks on the foam and made into a pile, with walnuts and a few other things Hahahha. But luckily doesn’t look like they chewed through any wires. No clue how old that is. But I found it funny. Maybe there the ones giving my car bad luck.

It is looking like a three day project however. Its the putting together that is going to take a long time. I am going to make sure everything is cleaned and anti seized and torque to proper step of course. I think I may have exaggerated before when i said it was a down a dirty job. Lets just say i can't even make myself not properly torque a bolt on my jeep, or improperly doing a job.


I think I may have to opt out of the valve job sadily. I know it is definitely best to get it done ( after looking up and seeing how common) and I would love to just get it done while at it, but just isn't practical for my current situation. Im not sure if I have the time or want to drop that much more money into the jeep. Have had to deal with a lot of repairs. Keep in mind I am 19 go to college and deliver pizzas haha( in a different car of course). Along with that, the jeep is in my dad machine shop and dont think it can sit in there for to much longer with some new machines coming in. This all said of course before I pull the head, who knows might see something that isn't good and change my mind. Also if i'm not mistaken I can buy aftermarket heads for a similar price that have claimed to fix this issues. Which is another option besides a valve job, not sure what i would do.
Knowing my luck the seats are gonna drop within the next 500 miles. Then ill learn my lesson haha
The mouse nest and chewed wires have happened quite a few times for some folks. It's not the first time we've seen it on the forums.

Anti-seized compound SHOULD NOT be used on any of the bolts you'll we working with. It acts like a lubricant and your torque values will end up higher than what you have the wrench set for. The only time to use anti-seize is when the Factory Service Manual says to. Do make sure everything is real clean though.

Think positive on the valve seats. While it does happen, it the big scheme of things......number of early 5.7's vs. number of actual dropped seats.....the percentage isn't that high. I didn't mean to scare you on this......just wanted you to be aware of the issue. The best thing you can do is insure your cooling system is in top notch shape and you never let it overheat or excessive heat soak. I run 190* thermostats in all 3 of my early Hemi's and have the cooling fan start temps. reset to lower start temps......197* for low, 203* for medium, and 208* for high. It'll take some sort of tuner with that capability to reset the start temps. The factory thermostat is a 203* one and the cooling fans don't start coming on until somewhere above 220*. Also, be sure to use ONLY HOAT type anti-freeze mixed 50/50 with DISTILLED water. This is very important. Pressure check the cooling system to make sure there are no leaks and make sure the cap is good.

Good luck.

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post #10 of 24 Old 03-01-2020, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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No no not anti seize in this sort of stuff, I meant more for example break job. Thatís my foult. But yes second day wrapped up, got both heads out cleaned and replaced gasket. Tomorrow just putting everything back together.


And no no I defiantly appreciate your concern about the seats. You are right for sure on the issue. It has been a real problem on these hemis.


And yes defiantly a must to keep cooling
System in top notch performance. Im very happy I havenít seen my engine temp gauge above halve way over the past 20k miles. I might have to look into those thermostats for later one.


Here is a picture of my heads. I noticed some difference in the little line of build up below each valve. Not sure if that means anything.
(Hoepfully Linked properly)
Also I sent a picture of the roller lifter keeper , when I took the head off the little keeper wings were already broken off, but the head seems to hold it in place. Also I inspected the rear one and the plastic keepers didnít even seem to be touching anything. Strange to me.
So I put it back and bolted up the head.




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post #11 of 24 Old 03-01-2020, 12:19 PM
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So, did you find what was causing the coolant in the oil?

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-01-2020, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Did u happen to know about that keeper peice? And yes I belive I found it on my drivers side yesterday, there was pocket on the block full of sludge.


But today i finished putting everything back together. I went to start up and wouldnít start.... it turned over fine but wouldnít start. Could only get it to start when I pressed the gas. And when it did run, it ran very rough. Had to accelerate to keep it going. No giant clanks or knocks however. And also when I switched the key to ďonĒ I heard a new clicking. I think I have it narrowed down to the throttle body. I belive the clicking is the cervo trying to get to a position it canít get to. I watched the butterfly get to fully closed and hesrd the cervo whinning like it is trying to go farther but canít .

I pried opend The throttle body and it started without pressing the gas peddle.


I think this alll happened when I had the intake off. I manually opened the butterfly. Which I now know is not something to not be done. Iím thinking I made it jump a gear.

I tried a procedure to recalibrate the TB by pressing gas three times while key is in ďonĒ position after battery disconnected. This did not work. Another ways to do this? Iím planning on ordering a new throttle bottle. I heard there is a special tool needed to calibrate it. Not sure


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post #13 of 24 Old 03-04-2020, 09:44 AM
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Did u happen to know about that keeper peice? And yes I belive I found it on my drivers side yesterday, there was pocket on the block full of sludge.


But today i finished putting everything back together. I went to start up and wouldnít start.... it turned over fine but wouldnít start. Could only get it to start when I pressed the gas. And when it did run, it ran very rough. Had to accelerate to keep it going. No giant clanks or knocks however. And also when I switched the key to ďonĒ I heard a new clicking. I think I have it narrowed down to the throttle body. I belive the clicking is the cervo trying to get to a position it canít get to. I watched the butterfly get to fully closed and hesrd the cervo whinning like it is trying to go farther but canít .

I pried opend The throttle body and it started without pressing the gas peddle.


I think this alll happened when I had the intake off. I manually opened the butterfly. Which I now know is not something to not be done. Iím thinking I made it jump a gear.

I tried a procedure to recalibrate the TB by pressing gas three times while key is in ďonĒ position after battery disconnected. This did not work. Another ways to do this? Iím planning on ordering a new throttle bottle. I heard there is a special tool needed to calibrate it. Not sure


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Why were you messing with the throttle body in the first place? Manually opening the butterfly will not normally do any damage to it, unless there is power applied to the TB. The gee whiz throttle relearn procedure will not work. The only correct way to do it is with a relatively high end scanner that has the capability to do a factory type relearn.

So, is it running good again? Any more coolant in the oil?

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-10-2020, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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I originally opened it when the intake was off to try to see another view of some pooling liquid I could see from the bottom. And yes I am not sure what happened and why it will not run correctly. Wont even throw a check engine light. I ordered and installed a new throttle body but understand I still need the use of a high end scanner to relearn. Changing between the old and new throttle body does affect how well it runs. I believe the computer is just very confused.
That's my next step as of now to relearn the throttle body. I think I have a guy that is actually able to come out with his scanner. And if that doesn't work, I guess have to take to jeep directly.
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-11-2020, 12:17 PM
90grandoneer
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Originally Posted by Skeetswk View Post
I originally opened it when the intake was off to try to see another view of some pooling liquid I could see from the bottom. And yes I am not sure what happened and why it will not run correctly. Wont even throw a check engine light. I ordered and installed a new throttle body but understand I still need the use of a high end scanner to relearn. Changing between the old and new throttle body does affect how well it runs. I believe the computer is just very confused.
That's my next step as of now to relearn the throttle body. I think I have a guy that is actually able to come out with his scanner. And if that doesn't work, I guess have to take to jeep directly.
That pooling of liquid in the intake manifold was more than likely oil from the lousy Positive Crankcase Ventilation system on the Hemi's. It is a very common problem and can badly contaminate your intake, combustion and exhaust tracts. Many of us have installed catch cans to mitigate most of this issue. You may want to consider a catch can for yours too.

Let us know how this all turns out and, especially if you still continue to get coolant in the oil.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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head gasket , hemi , valve seals , valves , wk

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