CRD WK Start/Crank Issues - Second Opinion - JeepForum.com
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 04-07-2018, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
Tetto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 38
Garage
CRD WK Start/Crank Issues - Second Opinion

Fellow Jeeple, I come to you today because my baby (2007 CRD WK) is sick and I need your opinion. I'm at the point where I have to decide to potentially shell out for some expensive repairs, or sell her

Issue: Intermittent (probably 60% of the time) long crank on starting. When this happens, it cranks strong/continuously (doesn’t seem to be a battery issue), just doesn’t fire when it should. Sometimes it will fire after 2-3 cranks (like it should), sometimes it takes 15-30. Occasionally (probably once every 2 or 3 days), it will sputter like a tractor immediately after starting, but it idles smooth after a few seconds. Once it starts, it doesn’t give any issues while driving aside from some vibration at specific RPM. After it’s been run for a while and the engine is up to temperature, I can turn it off and it will start right away with no issues; it typically has a much harder time starting in the morning/after sitting overnight.

No check engine light, no diagnostic codes. Sounds to me like a fuel delivery issue (maybe air is making it in somewhere).

After reviewing related posts on here, I’ve already:
- Swapped the battery
- Replaced air filter
- Replaced fuel filter
- Put a fresh tank of (treated) fuel in
- Replaced glow plug control module and all 6 glow plugs (long story...)
- Replaced crankshaft position sensor

Then I took it to the local stealership for diagnosis. They had it 2 weeks (presumably because they rarely see this engine):
- Verified pressure on low-side of fuel system
- Verified lift pump flow rate
- Verified pump pressure releif
- Verified no fuel rail leak-by
- Verified crank and cam position sensors
- Verified HP pump pressure set-point
- Performed fuel quantity correction test (not even sure what this is)

The only thing they found was "injectors 1-5 are taking fuel away between -0.5 and -.78, injector 6 is adding fuel +1.43 to +1.58". Their answer is basically "there's nothing left to test. The only thing that looks odd is injector #6. Let's replace it and hope that solves the issue". Of course they cannot make any promises that will resolve the issue.

So... if replacing the injector will solve the issue, I can make that work. A $1,400 repair on a vehicle valued around $6,500 is a tough pill to swallow. I can see a malfunctioning injector causing the engine to run rough, but I don't see how one injector could cause my starting issue. I want to take it elsewhere for a second opinion, namely my local Mercedes dealership, but everyone tells me that only Jeep's fancy-pants diagnostic equipment can get the data it needs from the OBD/ECU.

Can I get your thoughts and opinions?

Attached Files
File Type: pdf SKM_C3350180405165300-2.pdf (934.4 KB, 15 views)
Tetto is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 04-07-2018, 09:58 AM
smshort
Registered User
2008 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 12
Garage
Have you tried an injector leak off test?

Search sprinter-source for "leak off test" ( sorry don't have enough posts to post links).

I had all the same issues that you're having. Turned out two of my injectors were leaking too much fuel back to the tank to have proper starting fuel pressure.

I replaced the two injectors with two used eBay injectors and have driven the last 2000 miles with no hard starting.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
smshort is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 04-07-2018, 12:37 PM
yzjwk
Registered User
 
yzjwk's Avatar
2005 WK 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,073
Don't you have a diesel shop around? IMO the problem as you explained it has nothing to do with a running engine so the stealer running a balance test makes almost no sense. I agree as above that it's most likely a leak down issue and really it could be as simple as a bad o ring or 2 . Diesels don't run if there's any air in the system so when the engine is off and fuel drains back through the injector and pulls air in or is let in through a bad o ring it has to push all that air out before it will start. A mopar injector is about $540 at rock auto and a Bosch is about $300, so I don't get the $1400 estimate for 1 injector .
Find yourself a good diesel friendly shop .
Good luck
Chirpz likes this.

5 and counting :05 WK 5.7 HEMI
90 YJ Islander 4.2L
94 ZJ Ltd 5.2 ,00 WJ 4.0
2010 MK Patriot
yzjwk is offline  
 
post #4 of 20 Old 04-07-2018, 01:35 PM
Chirpz
Moderator
 
Chirpz's Avatar
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Battle Ground
Posts: 2,068
Garage
It is easy peasy to replace an injectory. I would not pay $1400 to do that job... no way.

The info in this DIY for injector seal would apply to simply replacing an injector.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/r...50/index3.html
Jambalam likes this.

Chirpz
2007 WK CRD, Quadradrive II, OEM Tow Hitch, GDE EcoTune, DPF-Delete, 4xGuard Front, Rear, Belly Guards, Side Rails & Full Matrix, OEM Skids, EHM, Dash Duck.
Chirpz is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 04-07-2018, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
Tetto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 38
Garage
Thanks for the feedback, y'all! Two questions:

1) I'll do a visual inspection for a leaking injector as well as the leak test. Once I identify suspect injector(s), is there a way to test and confirm a bad injector versus just a bad seal?
2) If I end up replacing an injector, I've read mixed results as to whether or not a StarScan tool is needed to update/program the ECU a new injector. Can anyone confirm or deny?
Tetto is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 04-07-2018, 11:44 PM
underscore
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kelowna
Posts: 2,099
Someone on here in another thread said they just installed the injectors and went, no programming required. I could never understand why you would need to program the ECU for an injector swap anyways.

07 WK CRD//QDII//OME MD//MALONE 1.5//OMG WTF BBQ
underscore is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 04-08-2018, 07:30 AM
nanotec
Registered User
2008 WK 
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zaragoza, SPAIN
Posts: 112
Garage
I'm interested in, because i have same problem than u, buddy.
Two hours ago i had buy a crankshaft sensor, but i fear that not resolve the problem.

P.D. I have an oil leak too, i don't know if both problems are related.

Last edited by nanotec; 04-08-2018 at 07:42 AM.
nanotec is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 04-08-2018, 08:23 AM
badgerwithhands
Registered User
2007 WK 
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 794
Garage
I would definitely check all of the ridiculous sensors, easy enough to get to anyway. Also, like others have said, check for air in the fuel rails.

07 WK Overland CRD, cargo LEDs, OME HD, MOPAR skids, rack,
future mods: tires, lights, CB, skids,
badgerwithhands is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 04-08-2018, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
Tetto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 38
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanotec View Post
I'm interested in, because i have same problem than u, buddy.
Two hours ago i had buy a crankshaft sensor, but i fear that not resolve the problem.

P.D. I have an oil leak too, i don't know if both problems are related.
I'm still working on my issue, but here are some very useful threads I found:
- Similar hard-start issues, resolved, includes list of items
- Step-by-step replacement of injectors/injector seals
- Sprinter leak-off test. There is a helpful youtube video
), or two (
), as well.

Last edited by Tetto; 04-08-2018 at 06:49 PM.
Tetto is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 04-08-2018, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
Tetto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 38
Garage
Alrighty! Did the injector leak test and definitely have one bad injector, possibly two. Using cylinder numbering 1, 2, 3 from front to rear on passenger side and 4, 5, 6 from front to rear on driver side:
#4 is most definitely bad. What do you guys think of #2? The other 4 look fine to me.

https://youtu.be/GjDpRm4cI-g

I also noticed a surprising amount of air bubbles in some of the lines - I think I'll go ahead and replace all seals in addition to injector 4 and maybe 2.
Tetto is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 04-08-2018, 07:25 PM
smshort
Registered User
2008 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 12
Garage
How long did you run the test for? When I did it, cranking for 10 seconds, I only had fuel in the two bad injectors.

Oh and from your earlier question, I did not reprogram the ECU when replaced the two injectors. I have driven around 2000 miles since this repair and it has never failed to start, even into single digit temperatures.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
smshort is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 04-11-2018, 05:29 PM
Tango.
Registered User
2008  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetto View Post
Fellow Jeeple, I come to you today because my baby (2007 CRD WK) is sick and I need your opinion. I'm at the point where I have to decide to potentially shell out for some expensive repairs, or sell her

Issue: Intermittent (probably 60% of the time) long crank on starting. When this happens, it cranks strong/continuously (doesnít seem to be a battery issue), just doesnít fire when it should. Sometimes it will fire after 2-3 cranks (like it should), sometimes it takes 15-30. Occasionally (probably once every 2 or 3 days), it will sputter like a tractor immediately after starting, but it idles smooth after a few seconds. Once it starts, it doesnít give any issues while driving aside from some vibration at specific RPM. After itís been run for a while and the engine is up to temperature, I can turn it off and it will start right away with no issues; it typically has a much harder time starting in the morning/after sitting overnight.- Verified HP pump pressure set-point
- Performed fuel quantity correction test (not even sure what this is)Can I get your thoughts and opinions?
I had the exact same problem and it took me a quite a while to figure it out.

There is a pressure solenoid attached to the high pressure injection pump with like 3 screws. It had gone out. Got the part number off Mopar Over Stock Parts and then found the Boche equal on eBay for about $130. There are 3 part numbers, mopar, MB, and Boche. same part and different prices. Boche is the lowest price.

The problem is overnight it looses the rail pressure.

There is also a 2nd pressure solenoid up on the driver side rail, that is not the one.
Tetto likes this.

Life is hard-John Wayne
Tango. is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 04-14-2018, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
Tetto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 38
Garage
Update and pro-tip: I'm starting injector replacement tomorrow, after letting things soak overnight. I discovered that the little plastic retention rings on the fuel return lines come off with almost zero effort if you use an 11mm open-end wrench to pop it up from underneath. Hopefully this info saves the next person much time and frustration

smshort: I left all sensors connected, so the engine started. I had it running for about 40 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango. View Post
There is a pressure solenoid attached to the high pressure injection pump with like 3 screws.
I see 3 sensors in the HP pump, photo link below. Which of the 3 are you referring to?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eE0...ew?usp=sharing

In taking a look at the HP pump, there's residue covering my turbo resonator. It was clean when I worked on it a few months ago - I'm not sure if it's fuel or oil residue, but something is definitely leaking. The location matches up with fuel coming out near the high pressure fuel pump.
Tetto is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 04-18-2018, 05:34 AM
Tango.
Registered User
2008  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetto View Post
...


I see 3 sensors in the HP pump, photo link below. Which of the 3 are you referring to?....

#2 in that diagram is what I was remembering, however it's #1 is what I have in my notes and receipt:
Bosch Fuel Injection Pressure Sensor fits 03-09 Dodge Sprinter 2500 #0061536528

Paid 108 .. MB same part is 190

Life is hard-John Wayne
Tango. is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 10-03-2018, 05:33 AM
Sandib210
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saskatoon
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetto View Post
Update and pro-tip: I'm starting injector replacement tomorrow, after letting things soak overnight. I discovered that the little plastic retention rings on the fuel return lines come off with almost zero effort if you use an 11mm open-end wrench to pop it up from underneath. Hopefully this info saves the next person much time and frustration [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/JeepForum_2016/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG]

smshort: I left all sensors connected, so the engine started. I had it running for about 40 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango. View Post
There is a pressure solenoid attached to the high pressure injection pump with like 3 screws.
I see 3 sensors in the HP pump, photo link below. Which of the 3 are you referring to?
http://drive.google.com/file/d/1eE0y...ew?usp=sharing

In taking a look at the HP pump, there's residue covering my turbo resonator. It was clean when I worked on it a few months ago - I'm not sure if it's fuel or oil residue, but something is definitely leaking. The location matches up with fuel coming out near the high pressure fuel pump.
Can you tell me what resolved your issues? I will order a fuel sensor pressure if need be and do a leak off test to my 08 WK CRD doing the same thing
Sandib210 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome