06 Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi to 2017 5.7 Hemi Swap - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 21 Old 03-14-2019, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
KLK812
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06 Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi to 2017 5.7 Hemi Swap

Hey All. I'm new to Jeeps, hence my newness to the forum. My plan with this thread is to document my swap and see if I can extract any advice from others who have done this. Now, onto the story.

So, a few months back I saw a decently clean 06 GC Overland 5.7 hemi come up for sale for only $1000 a few miles from my house. It wasn't running, and I bought it with the understanding that it probably needed the engine rebuilt (or swapped) so I'll cut to the chase. READ FURTHER FOR THE LONG STORY, CUT TO THE NEXT PARAGRAPH FOR THE SHORT STORY. The infamous hemi intake cylinder valve seats bit this jeep (as I came to learn all about, since I had never touched a mopar before this). Unfortunately, after I pulled the engine I found out that it dropped valve seats on both banks, hence both heads were trashed. A local shop quoted me $300-400 per head to weld/recut the damage as well as the valve seats and mill the heads (since they were warped 6.5 thou). As for the block, a few of those valve seats grenaded and scuffed the cylinders, so it would need a bore over and hone. Only place in the area with a torque plate I found was up in Indianapolis, and the machine work was looking to reach nearly $1000 just for the block. Now considering all 8 oversized pistons, new bearings, seals, MDS delete, lifters, pushrods (did I mention this engine had 220k miles?) etc etc. My build list and cost was quickly adding up - but this was supposed to be a budget build! So I decided to start looking at other options.

SHORT STORY: I figured it would be cheaper to just swap in a new motor than rebuild the hemi, so I picked up a 2017 5.7 hemi out of a charger with only 40k miles for $2k. I knew this engine would at least have VVT and a variable intake (figured it may also have a few extra knock sensors, but I didn't see any on it when it showed up today) so I knew it would have a few more solenoids/sensors than what was on the stock motor. Good news is, the engine did come with the complete engine harness and ECM.

So here comes the unfortunate news - when it showed up today I took a closer look at the trans harness and noticed the connectors looked a bit different than what were on my 545RFE. I then took a look at the ECM and it hit me - there were only two large connectors versus the 4 connectors on the 06 ECM. That was the "uh-oh" moment when I knew this wouldn't be a simple oil pan/exh. manifold/engine mount swap, then plug and play.

So here I am this afternoon, tearing through the wiring diagrams and ECM pinouts in the 06 service manual (thank god I at least have that), trying to figure out how I'm gonna tackle this. I do have HP tuners, so my plan is to first download the 06 calibration tomorrow and save that as a backup so that I have the transmission calibration. But I'm just gonna be honest here, I'm gonna be learning this as I go as I've never done a swap like this before. My background is in mechanical design and testing engineering (primarily fuel systems), so I've dabbled in tuning when I work through test cell issues, but my electronics skills are still at level neophite.

Has anyone heard of doing a swap like this before? Any help would be appreciated. I'll post some pics here as soon as I'm allowed - I think I have to contribute 25 posts first.

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post #2 of 21 Old 03-15-2019, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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I think I answered part of my question last night after posting this. It looks like from 09-2011 the 5.7 updated gen 3 hemi was paired with the 545rfe, so there are 3 years of ECMs out there that would match my needs if I have to go the new ECM route. But there may be a cheaper option.

There is a 2011 GC 5.7 stock tune file uploaded on the HP site. I downloaded it last night. Plan is to compare that to the 06 tune tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully it's as simple as uploading the 2011 stock tune.

That still leaves me with the wiring harness. I searched last night for a 2011-later 5.7 service manual as well as a 2009-2011 grand Cherokee manual but had no luck. Was mainly focusing my search on grand Cherokee and charger models in that range. May have to start looking at RAM and other models that used this service manual. If anyone has either a service manual or a ECM pin diagram for these newer 5.7s help a brother out. I'll have to start rewiring the ECM/PCM connectors from the old harness onto the new one so I can get this swap party into the engine bay.
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post #3 of 21 Old 03-15-2019, 03:02 PM
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Welcome to the forum and good luck with this one. You're going to run into more obstacles than it is worth when trying to adapt a VVT engine to an early chassis. Don't get me wrong, I am sure it can be done but, IMO, the cost and problems probably wouldn't be worth it. If you removed the VVT and put a fixed timing set into it, that would probably work a bit easier. Wiring harness and plugs would probably be the biggest obstacles for this, as the engines are quite similar with the new engine having bigger heads and better cam timing than a stock 06. Since you already have the newer engine, I'd for sure explore this closely.

In the long run it may be more cost efficient (and a lot less grief) to sell the 2017 engine and rebuild the 06 Hemi the way you want. There is a lot of untapped potential in the early Hemi's that can easily surpass the 2017's stock horsepower. If the bottom end of the engine rotating assembly is sound, a slight bore, forged pistons, a forged 6.1 crank (if you're going for big power like forced induction), a good cam and ported/polished heads will get you close to 500 hp. at the crank. Of course, if you want to stay stock, or mostly stock, you can do it for a lot cheaper too, depending on what you have for goals . I've been messing with my 06 Hemi's off and on for quite a few years and have them up to about 420-440 hp. without messing with the rotating assembly. I've also retained the Multi-Displacement System (MDS) and, with the Jeep I routinely get 21-23 mpg on the highway....about the same as stock (13-14 mpg) around town as I can't keep my foot out of it. In my LX, I get 27-29 mpg on the highway and 15-16 mpg around town.

Also, if you're going to build a more powerful engine, be sure to "fix" the transmission so it'll support the additional power. Cost of doing that with a 545RFE (if it's in good shape) is less than a couple hundred dollars. The exhaust system is one of the keys to picking up substantial power, and this will cost a bit more, no matter which way you choose to go.

In any case, continue to research to find out what the best options are to meet your goals. I am sure others will chime in and offer their views, so stand by, LOL.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #4 of 21 Old 03-18-2019, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I got the engine off the shipping pallet and up on the stand to get a better look at everything. I'll post a full write up maybe tomorrow on the differences between the pre-VVT and VVT (eagle) motors, but I'll address a few of your comments first.

In my situation, I was looking at $3500+ in a rebuild. I created an excel spreadsheet comparing a few different build options, including your note about forged internals. Hotrod.com did a "junkyard" build on this and I cost it out to $6k, and this assuming their claim they found a 6.1 crank for $100.. HAAA. This is a budget build, I have a newborn and an expensive illness in the family, so 6k just isn't in the cards now.

Anyway, the only thing not stock about my $3500 build plan would have been a mild cam with beehive springs and MDS delete. This means a new set of lifters and pushrods which was only a few hundo. Decided to go with the MDS delete because there is no way I would reuse those MDS solenoids after 210k miles, and it was just about a wash to buy the pushrods/lifters/solenoid plugs versus 4 new solenoids at $60/pc. Also, we used those solenoids by the same supplier on one of our prototype engines at work and 220k miles is past their designed life, of course depending on driving conditions. As for machine work, it was about $600 in block work (spoke wrong in the previous post - this is for hot tank, new plugs, press in cam bushings, bore, hone, polish crank). Oversized pistons about $300 without even getting rings. $800 in head work.

Now to your note about this being more of a pain than its worth. After taking a better look tonight, I'm willing to admit that you are probably right. However, I'm still not giving up on the eagle hemi yet - I'm gonna price out some of these additional parts I need and sleep on it. As for the trans, I have no idea what kind of shape it is in. I drained the trans fluid when I pulled the tranny and it did have some non metallic particles in there, but the material was pretty fine so I'm thinking its just normal clutch wear. It was easy enough to get the trans out that I'd rather just run it til it has a problem and pull it for a rebuild when that day comes. For your comment on the exhaust system, I have some interesting pics comparing the two exhaust manifolds. The manifolds are notably different, with the newer generation being much larger at the collector.

In my full write up tomorrow, I'll show the biggest issue that has led me to question whether this swap is worth it or not. It turns out the front end accessory drives are on different planes between the 03-08 and 09-current hemis, meaning I'm going to need to purchase a new alternator, PS pump and AC compressor. That adds probably $700 when you add in cost of now having to refill the system with freon. Also, as you mentioned, the electrical situation is going to be a bit tricky, but I think I have a path forward that at most should cost $300.

Lastly, you mentioned removing VVT. Do you have any references for this you can point me to? One thing I was just thinking about was if it would be possible to fit the 03-08 hemi front timing cover on the VVT motor if I were to remove the VVT. If so, assuming I could get the damper to line up as well, that would bring the cost of this build back to a number that makes this swap make a little more sense. I really liked the idea of leaving VVT due to the added lever it will give me tuning, but I'd rather keep my front end accessories at this point. I'll have to take a closer look at all that tomorrow.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
Welcome to the forum and good luck with this one. You're going to run into more obstacles than it is worth when trying to adapt a VVT engine to an early chassis. Don't get me wrong, I am sure it can be done but, IMO, the cost and problems probably wouldn't be worth it. If you removed the VVT and put a fixed timing set into it, that would probably work a bit easier. Wiring harness and plugs would probably be the biggest obstacles for this, as the engines are quite similar with the new engine having bigger heads and better cam timing than a stock 06. Since you already have the newer engine, I'd for sure explore this closely.

In the long run it may be more cost efficient (and a lot less grief) to sell the 2017 engine and rebuild the 06 Hemi the way you want. There is a lot of untapped potential in the early Hemi's that can easily surpass the 2017's stock horsepower. If the bottom end of the engine rotating assembly is sound, a slight bore, forged pistons, a forged 6.1 crank (if you're going for big power like forced induction), a good cam and ported/polished heads will get you close to 500 hp. at the crank. Of course, if you want to stay stock, or mostly stock, you can do it for a lot cheaper too, depending on what you have for goals . I've been messing with my 06 Hemi's off and on for quite a few years and have them up to about 420-440 hp. without messing with the rotating assembly. I've also retained the Multi-Displacement System (MDS) and, with the Jeep I routinely get 21-23 mpg on the highway....about the same as stock (13-14 mpg) around town as I can't keep my foot out of it. In my LX, I get 27-29 mpg on the highway and 15-16 mpg around town.

Also, if you're going to build a more powerful engine, be sure to "fix" the transmission so it'll support the additional power. Cost of doing that with a 545RFE (if it's in good shape) is less than a couple hundred dollars. The exhaust system is one of the keys to picking up substantial power, and this will cost a bit more, no matter which way you choose to go.

In any case, continue to research to find out what the best options are to meet your goals. I am sure others will chime in and offer their views, so stand by, LOL.
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post #5 of 21 Old 03-19-2019, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLK812 View Post
I think I answered part of my question last night after posting this. It looks like from 09-2011 the 5.7 updated gen 3 hemi was paired with the 545rfe, so there are 3 years of ECMs out there that would match my needs if I have to go the new ECM route. But there may be a cheaper option.

There is a 2011 GC 5.7 stock tune file uploaded on the HP site. I downloaded it last night. Plan is to compare that to the 06 tune tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully it's as simple as uploading the 2011 stock tune.

That still leaves me with the wiring harness. I searched last night for a 2011-later 5.7 service manual as well as a 2009-2011 grand Cherokee manual but had no luck. Was mainly focusing my search on grand Cherokee and charger models in that range. May have to start looking at RAM and other models that used this service manual. If anyone has either a service manual or a ECM pin diagram for these newer 5.7s help a brother out. I'll have to start rewiring the ECM/PCM connectors from the old harness onto the new one so I can get this swap party into the engine bay.
I don't think getting the vehicle to run and drive will be your big issue.
I think the hard part will be getting the internal systems to talk and work. The 06 is 2 generations behind in that it uses a low speed CAN bus from the front control module to all the internal modules like security system, HVAC, gauge cluster etc. The new PCM and FCM ( if the 2017 even uses a FCM) will be expecting a High speed bus. If I'm correct, that means you will need a new Gauge cluster, wireless control system , anti-theft , HVAC controls etc and whatever internal module that controls them and communicates them to the PCM.
Good luck, I hope you get it all working.

5 and counting :05 WK 5.7 HEMI
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post #6 of 21 Old 03-19-2019, 01:19 PM
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I didn't even think (or remember) that the later stuff uses the high speed CAN Bus. I concur with yzjwk, that you'd be really fighting an uphill battle in this area.

Although I haven't messed with any of the newer stuff, it's my understanding that the later Eagle and Apache heads, intakes and other key components interchange with the early Hemi's. I think I'd start investigating what all interchanges and see if just swapping stuff from the newer engine to the older engine will work.....crankshaft, bearings, pistons, etc. You'd have to check journal diameters, and a bunch of other dimensions after everything is apart. For sure you're going about it in the right direction by checking the costs of the various possible avenues. I've got my 6.1 with 165K on it apart now (top end and cam) and it looks very nice in cam bearings, cylinder walls, timing set, etc. I guess what I am saying is that the bottom end of your 06 engine may not be too bad and you possibly won't need all the things you're budgeting for. Also, if you're not going to go for lots of performance, you can go with sand cast pistons (cheaper than forged ones), use the later heads/exhaust manifolds and intake and any other stuff you find will interchange. For sure you'll need to tear everything down first to see where you're at. As I said in the beginning, good luck. Some of this will be very time consuming, but I am sure you can come up with a combination that will work, using much of what you already have on hand.

Why do you want to delete the MDS? All this is is an additional cost, unless you'll need to replace all the lifters anyway. It's my understanding that all the Hemi's use the same lifters.....another thing to verify!!! You won't find lifters, pushrods and solenoids for $240 either. If you must delete the MDS, just leave the solenoids in place and plugged in and just shut it off it the PCM. You can either retain the MDS lifters or take them out if you choose. If you're going to change the cam (you may not need to) then I'd for sure change the lifters, although that isn't a "for sure" either. You'd have to check the rollers on each lifter for wear, pitting, scoring and bearing play though. If one or two are bad, I'd probably replace them all....about $400 for a set of original Mopars, as little as $200-300 for aftermarket. If you have to replace the cam (I am doing that right now on my 6.1) you can get a stocker or a regrind for cheap, or do like I did and pick up a mild performance aftermarket one for about $400.

As far as the transmission goes, it would depend on how much stuff was in the pan and what it looked like. Very possibly you can put a shift kit in it (~$50), and line pressure booster (~$50), new filters and fluid and give it a try. One of the aftermarket tuners will unlock better shift schedules and torque management settings. Unless there's reason to believe there are other problems with the transmission, this would probably be one of my least worries and no adapting needed.

For all your accessories, compare the hook up points....bolt locations and positions on the heads, between the new heads and the old heads. If they're the same, all your current accessories should mount fine, as most of the stuff mounts to the front cover. On all three of my early Hemi's, the only thing that mounts to a head is the power steering pump on the driver's side head. You can also pull the engine without disconnecting any of the accessories....just bungy them out of the way.....don't open the A/C lines and power steering lines (unless you need a new pressure hose), and you don't even have to disconnect the alternator if you want.

Since I'd recommend using the old block, unless everything mounts exactly like the old one does, you wouldn't have to do anything with the timing set, except maybe replace it. On the other hand, if you can use the new engine complete, then I'd look into, first using a stock early timing set and, if that didn't work, second I'd look into either doing away with the cam phaser or somehow locking it probably in the "straight up" position.....no advance or retard. I run the cams in both my 5.7's advanced (fixed...not variable), the WK at 6 degrees and the LX at 10 degrees. This slightly moves the power/torque curves to a little bit lower RPM. Also, if you can use the new engine, see if all the early sensors will fit in the heads/block/intake manifold and are located approximately in the same place.

06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #7 of 21 Old 03-20-2019, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yzjwk View Post
I don't think getting the vehicle to run and drive will be your big issue.
I think the hard part will be getting the internal systems to talk and work. The 06 is 2 generations behind in that it uses a low speed CAN bus from the front control module to all the internal modules like security system, HVAC, gauge cluster etc. The new PCM and FCM ( if the 2017 even uses a FCM) will be expecting a High speed bus. If I'm correct, that means you will need a new Gauge cluster, wireless control system , anti-theft , HVAC controls etc and whatever internal module that controls them and communicates them to the PCM.
Good luck, I hope you get it all working.
yzjwk, thanks for pointing this out, this was not something I had thought of. It looks like from 09-10 Grand Cherokees (as well as several other models) had the low speed CAN bus system according to this reference for radios ->> http://www.wkjeeps.com/Mygig_parts.htm#PARTS. If my 06 PCM cannot handle the 2011 tune, my plan is to purchase a 09-10 Grand Cherokee PCM off ebay.

So here is my list of needs to adapt the 2017 charger harness to the 2006 GC:
1. Need 4 connectors (black, nude, orange, green) to connect to the 06-11 style ECM
2. Add in the 545RFE transmission connections since the 2017 charger had the new ZF8 style trans (two pressure sensors & trans controller needed for the 545RFE) and will also need one connection for the transfer case controller
3. Add connection from the ECM harness to communicate with the CAN bus system

To do the above, it would be really helpful to find a wiring diagram (or even better ECM pinout) for a newer style Eagle harness. I compared some of the wiring between the two harnesses, and good news is, everything so far matched in terms of wire colors. This should be helpful when doing the above mentioned steps.

Here is the older style ECM (which I'm assuming is indicative of a slow CAN bus ECM system now).


Here is the newer style ECM and ECM connector from the 2017 charger.





Now, I hate to destroy perfectly good parts (some call it hoarding), so I refuse to cut up the 06 grand cherokee harness. Especially if this doesn't work out and I need to use it. Rather, I found that this 4 connector ECM is used in quite a few other vehicles. I found this one at a local pick-and-pull from a durango, but they're in PT cruisers as well (it's much easier to reach the ECM in the PT cruiser, so I recommend looking for one of these). I didn't take the whole harness, just the 4 connectors at the ECM. I still need the transmission connections mentioned above but ran out of time that day, so I'll be heading back there soon to pull that part of the harness.




Hopefully the pictures help paint a better picture of my plan of attack. If you see something that doesn't make sense, let me know, I'm open to suggestions.
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post #8 of 21 Old 03-20-2019, 07:22 PM
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06 GCO, Dk Khaki, QDII, Flshing Hi 3rd Bk Lt, MDS "ON" Lt, Airtab Vortex Gens, Debadged, Fumoto Drain Valve, BT Catch Can, Chopped EGR Tube, SRT8 CAI, AFE Air Filter, Sonnax Trans Line Press Booster, SC Tuner W/Adv Trans Tune App, DS and HP tuners, Transgo Shift Kit, ARH Long Tube Hdrs w/3 in Magnaflow/Xlerator AP Exh Sys, Bilsteins, SRT Springs/Sways, Cust Eng Cvr, SRT8 frt/rear bumpers, FRI Sidewinder Cam w/6* advance/6.1 valvetrain, SLP 25% UD Pulley, BBK true 90mm T-Body, SOS Ign Coils w/.060 spark plug gaps, TEA ported/milled heads w/new valve seats, SRT Reps with 265/45&295/40X20's. Also 05 Hemi LX modded exactly like WK and Comp Cammed 06 300CSRT8.
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post #9 of 21 Old 03-20-2019, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90grandoneer View Post
I didn't even think (or remember) that the later stuff uses the high speed CAN Bus. I concur with yzjwk, that you'd be really fighting an uphill battle in this area.

Although I haven't messed with any of the newer stuff, it's my understanding that the later Eagle and Apache heads, intakes and other key components interchange with the early Hemi's. I think I'd start investigating what all interchanges and see if just swapping stuff from the newer engine to the older engine will work.....crankshaft, bearings, pistons, etc. You'd have to check journal diameters, and a bunch of other dimensions after everything is apart. For sure you're going about it in the right direction by checking the costs of the various possible avenues. I've got my 6.1 with 165K on it apart now (top end and cam) and it looks very nice in cam bearings, cylinder walls, timing set, etc. I guess what I am saying is that the bottom end of your 06 engine may not be too bad and you possibly won't need all the things you're budgeting for. Also, if you're not going to go for lots of performance, you can go with sand cast pistons (cheaper than forged ones), use the later heads/exhaust manifolds and intake and any other stuff you find will interchange. For sure you'll need to tear everything down first to see where you're at. As I said in the beginning, good luck. Some of this will be very time consuming, but I am sure you can come up with a combination that will work, using much of what you already have on hand.

Why do you want to delete the MDS? All this is is an additional cost, unless you'll need to replace all the lifters anyway. It's my understanding that all the Hemi's use the same lifters.....another thing to verify!!! You won't find lifters, pushrods and solenoids for $240 either. If you must delete the MDS, just leave the solenoids in place and plugged in and just shut it off it the PCM. You can either retain the MDS lifters or take them out if you choose. If you're going to change the cam (you may not need to) then I'd for sure change the lifters, although that isn't a "for sure" either. You'd have to check the rollers on each lifter for wear, pitting, scoring and bearing play though. If one or two are bad, I'd probably replace them all....about $400 for a set of original Mopars, as little as $200-300 for aftermarket. If you have to replace the cam (I am doing that right now on my 6.1) you can get a stocker or a regrind for cheap, or do like I did and pick up a mild performance aftermarket one for about $400.

As far as the transmission goes, it would depend on how much stuff was in the pan and what it looked like. Very possibly you can put a shift kit in it (~$50), and line pressure booster (~$50), new filters and fluid and give it a try. One of the aftermarket tuners will unlock better shift schedules and torque management settings. Unless there's reason to believe there are other problems with the transmission, this would probably be one of my least worries and no adapting needed.

For all your accessories, compare the hook up points....bolt locations and positions on the heads, between the new heads and the old heads. If they're the same, all your current accessories should mount fine, as most of the stuff mounts to the front cover. On all three of my early Hemi's, the only thing that mounts to a head is the power steering pump on the driver's side head. You can also pull the engine without disconnecting any of the accessories....just bungy them out of the way.....don't open the A/C lines and power steering lines (unless you need a new pressure hose), and you don't even have to disconnect the alternator if you want.

Since I'd recommend using the old block, unless everything mounts exactly like the old one does, you wouldn't have to do anything with the timing set, except maybe replace it. On the other hand, if you can use the new engine complete, then I'd look into, first using a stock early timing set and, if that didn't work, second I'd look into either doing away with the cam phaser or somehow locking it probably in the "straight up" position.....no advance or retard. I run the cams in both my 5.7's advanced (fixed...not variable), the WK at 6 degrees and the LX at 10 degrees. This slightly moves the power/torque curves to a little bit lower RPM. Also, if you can use the new engine, see if all the early sensors will fit in the heads/block/intake manifold and are located approximately in the same place.
Yea my original hope when I pulled the engine was the short block would be okay. I completely tore down the 06 and it had 2 majorly scuffed cylinders, one with a minor scuff. See below. I did assume some oversized cast aluminum pistons in that $3500+ assumption.



All bearings looked great for how many miles it had on it. Honestly, they looked good enough to reuse if I were enough of a cheap***, but I would never do so. No fatigue or major material embedded in any of the main bearings. A few of the rod bearings had some light material embedded, but nothing major. I haven't pulled cam bearings, but the cam journals all looked great. No skidding on the cam lobes, wear patterns all looked great. I could do a full teardown inspection in another forum if there is enough interest. I anally tore this engine down, marking every bearing position. This is how we tear them down at work, I couldn't help it.

I expected the hemi accessories to all bolt on any gen 3 hemi, which is "technically" true, they sorta will bolt on, but they are not compatible. Here is the alternator mounting pad for the eagle hemi. Circled in red are the two mounting bolts for the pre-eagle hemi, and circled in yellow are the eagle hemi mounting bolts (idk why the image will only come in sideways, sorry about that).



While the bottom mounting hole is the same M10 hole, the top on the eagle timing cover is an untapped M8 size hole. You may be able to see below.


My first thought was, I'll just drill and tap that top hole to an M10, and then fab up a small bracket to adapt the 3rd lower alternator mounting bolt to the bottom eagle mounts.


Well, that was until I got to the power steering pump. The charger had an idler here, it looks like they may use an electrical power steering pump that is remotely mounted.


When I put the grand cherokee PS pump on and noticed how far off the belt planes were, I went back to the alternator and saw the same. A little difficult to see in the picture, but you can see they are somewhere around a half inch off plane.



So once I saw this, I figured I better sit down and get a full list of all alternators and PS pumps used on pre-eagle and eagle hemis to see what I would need. Below is a picture of the eagle alternator, notice the different bolt pattern.


Also, these newer alts come in 180A and 220A from what I can tell, and I think the 06 GC alt. was a 160A. I haven't decided if I'll go with 180A or 220A, but I'm leaning towards 220A to give myself plenty of power to potentially add a secondary battery down the road. I've found used alternators on ebay for roughly $100, while a new one is in the area of $300 (I only will buy OEM for these, so I'm not interested in hearing how much an aftermarket autozone alt is).

As for the power steering pump, from pictures they look the same, but the pre-eagle and eagle versions have different part numbers (obviously due to the belt plane, at minimum). My plan is to do the same as above with the alternator and purchase a used pump on ebay. Before I do this though, I'm hoping to go to the local dodge/jeep dealer and see if I can get a measurement of the pulley diameter on one of these warlocks. If there is a big difference in diameter from the 06 GC PS pump pulley, there could be some issues with pump pressures (assuming the internals are all the same).

Unfortunately the same story as the PS pump goes for the AC compressor. I'm PO'ed because I spent so much time trying to get that GD compressor off the engine while it was still in the chassis. I ultimately had to leave it attached until I lifted the motor off the mounts because I couldn't get access to the bottom bolt. I guess on the bright side, I can probably salvage the freon on the system if I can get my hands on a vacuum pump and reservoir.

After all this heartache I needed to sit down and actually do some homework. I took a few hours last night and went through some parts directories online to compare part numbers between an 06 grand cherokee, 2011 grand cherokee and 2017 charger. Unfortunately it's on my work computer which decided to take a s*** on me this morning, so I'll have to post that later. Moral of the story, not much is shared between the pre-eagle and eagle hemis, except for the rear sump oil pan. Which reminds me, I still need to swap mine on for the front sump charger pan, and also find a new dipstick. I cleaned mine out and deburred all the casting imperfections on the internal surfaces just because I'm that anal. As someone who designs castings, this surface finish is pathetic. I can't believe chrysler quality engineers would approve this. Unfortunately I don't have any before/after pics, but you can see all the grind marks in the pan indicating how much crap I had to grind out of there.

Last edited by KLK812; 03-20-2019 at 08:35 PM.
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post #10 of 21 Old 03-20-2019, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
KLK812
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Some other things on the to-do list:
  1. Figure out what to do with the exhaust manifold situation (see below)
  2. Replace charger oil cooler with the standard oil filter head from the 06 GC. I remember there being little clearance to the chassis near this oil filter so the oil cooler probably won't fit.
  3. Swap over GC motor mounts (see below)

Pre-eagle manifold on top, eagle manifold on bottom. The pre-eagle manifold doesn't quite match the eagle head flow area, but it will technically bolt up. I don't want to neck down the flow with a circle to small rectangle transitional area, so I'm gonna see if the dealer has a 2011 GC manifold that I can take a look at. I'm hoping that will mount to my current exhaust without impacting the collector. I really don't feel like welding on that y-pipe while laying on my back.



Also, take a look at that difference in collector size. The charger is 2.75" compared to the 1.75" on the GC. Will be interesting to see what the eagle grand cherokees have.


Here is the oil cooler from the charger (same picture as post above), I don't have a picture of the grand cherokee oil filter head and it's too cold in the garage to go take one right now. BTW if anyone needs one of these oil coolers/filter heads, it's for sale



Here is a size comparison of the motor mounts between the GC (left) and charger (right). Look at the size of those charger mounts!



It may be a few days before I get another update on here. I spent most of today working on the wife's RX330, had the spark plug from hell job on that one (for those familiar with the toyota/lexus v6s) and the master cylinder was going out. Waiting on a few gaskets to finish that job up, then I should get back to this.
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post #11 of 21 Old 03-21-2019, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLK812 View Post
I think I answered part of my question last night after posting this. It looks like from 09-2011 the 5.7 updated gen 3 hemi was paired with the 545rfe, so there are 3 years of ECMs out there that would match my needs if I have to go the new ECM route. But there may be a cheaper option.

There is a 2011 GC 5.7 stock tune file uploaded on the HP site. I downloaded it last night. Plan is to compare that to the 06 tune tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully it's as simple as uploading the 2011 stock tune.

That still leaves me with the wiring harness. I searched last night for a 2011-later 5.7 service manual as well as a 2009-2011 grand Cherokee manual but had no luck. Was mainly focusing my search on grand Cherokee and charger models in that range. May have to start looking at RAM and other models that used this service manual. If anyone has either a service manual or a ECM pin diagram for these newer 5.7s help a brother out. I'll have to start rewiring the ECM/PCM connectors from the old harness onto the new one so I can get this swap party into the engine bay.
You may have this one already, but just incase . ..On post #123 is a link to the 05-08 FSM and 06 parts manual .
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/...93/index9.html

5 and counting :05 WK 5.7 HEMI
90 YJ Islander 4.2L
94 ZJ Ltd 5.2 ,00 WJ 4.0
2010 MK Patriot
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post #12 of 21 Old 03-21-2019, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
KLK812
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Had the service manual but not the parts manual. Thanks for sharing that. Now I just need both of those from a 2011-2019 grand cherokee..
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post #13 of 21 Old 04-09-2019, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, been a few weeks since I updated. Got side tracked on a steal of a deal tractor I bought that needed some love before mowing season.

Anyway, I was going the route of adapting the 2017 charger harness to fit the GC, but I wanted to find a wiring diagram before making irreversible changes. I had no luck in finding said diagrams, but did find a complete 2010 GC harness for only $125. So to save myself hours of work and potential heartache, I bit the bullet. Should be here this Friday. I think once I've got this installed all I need is a set of exhaust manifolds before it's ready to swing back in. Still need an ECM and front end accessories but I can install all that at a later date.
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post #14 of 21 Old 04-11-2019, 04:35 AM
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Chargers do have electric steering-my wife drives an 11 Charger RT
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post #15 of 21 Old 04-27-2019, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
KLK812
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Mower deck on the new tractor was a bit of a basket case, ended up going through a whole tank of argon and doing a full strip/repaint by the time I was done fixing the rust holes. Spent WAY too much time on that thing. And that all started as a simple bearing replacement

Anyway, the new harness came in a few weeks back and immediately I noticed a major issue. The white PCM connector C3 (circuits include VVT, MDS, fuel pump signal, starter signal, etc. etc.) wasn't on the harness. The ebay listing did not have a picture, so I knew I was taking a bit of a gamble. Unfortunately it did not pay off. Before I spent another dime on this project I needed a wiring diagram of a 2010 jeep. I was able to get the diagram on techauthority, and the differences are more extensive than I expected. The 2010 Grand Cherokee C3 PCM connector is actually part of a body harness that includes everything on the front of the vehicle (see below).



My plan to use a 2010 ECM with this harness was now not going to work without wayyy too much harness hacking to just retain VVT. I then considered adapting my 06 harness to work with this a 2010 ECM, which is a bit more feasible, but at this point I'm gonna cut my losses and "delete" the VCT (i.e. install the cam gear locks) on the new engine and just roll with it. For those interested or anyone who is ever looking into doing this, I've made my excel file that compares the PCM pinouts shareable on google drive here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Bq...j_jdY6nOotrUzG

So my question before I go and buy this $90 delete kit is - has anyone done this before, or read of anyone doing so? I spent all of about 5 minutes looking into it - found the kit and a few people asking about it, but that's it. Since I'm using a pre-VVT ECM/tune there shouldn't be any tune changes needed. I'll just need to lock the cam gear, unless there is something I'm missing...

Last edited by KLK812; 04-27-2019 at 11:00 PM.
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