1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-Need advice/suggestions - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 18 Old 04-13-2019, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
Sir Chomps
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1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer-Need advice/suggestions

New to the forum here. I hope this is the correct place to post.

I have bought a 1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer,4 wheel drive,360 V8,210,000 miles. The vehicle has been sitting unused for 12-15 years.
I need advice/suggestions on what should be the first steps/preps to getting the engine readied for the first start. I did not check to see if the engine was locked up or not prior to purchase. I was hoping to prevent any internal engine damage by trying to “cold start” an engine that has been sitting, without lubrication, as long as this has. The vehicle was at such a reasonable price, it is still worth it if the engine ends up being seized.

First check I did, yesterday was inspect condition of the cooling system(radiator). The overflow tank still contains antifreeze and when I removed the radiator cap it still had pressure on it, that is encouraging to me that at least the head gaskets are still intact, the water pump should be in good condition, the heater core is not leaking and there are no leaks in any of the hoses. the antifreeze was green, not cloudy. The coolant level was high enough to cover the inner core of the radiator.


My plan is as follows:

1.
Remove the spark plugs and fill the cylinders with Pblaster or Marvelous Mystery Oil and let that soak for a few days.

2. Disconnect fuel line from carb. and attach external fuel tank to prevent stale fuel/trash from entering carb.

3. Inspect plug/coil wire for rodent/heat damage.

Things I'm not sure of:

1. what to do to the distributor to ensure it will spin freely on first startup.


2. what to do to,if anything, to the torque converter prior to start up

3. Should I remove valve covers and pre-lube/soak rocker arms or the valve stems?

4. Is there any way to soak or prep the carburetor to, hopefully,” rejuvenate” the gaskets and diaphragms inside just enough until I can do a rebuild?
5. Any ideas on soaking/prep the mechanical fuel pump diaphragm or should I just plan to purchase a new fuel pump?
I have almost unlimited time to get the vehicle back to a running condition, although limited budget. I didn’t want to “unload the parts cannon” on it until I could determine if the engine/tranny have any life left to them.

If anyone has questions/interest in the history of the Wagoneer, I’ll be glad to post what I know. Thank you to all, in advance for your time and replies.

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post #2 of 18 Old 04-13-2019, 08:46 AM
jeepdaddy2000
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For a simple start up:


Check all fluids(including the trans).


Pull the dist and run the oil pump to insure the engine is primed. You can also hook an external oil gauge to insure pressure.


Crank the engine and insure you have spark.



You can prime the carb through the vent or push some gas down the fuel line. This will allow you to check the acc pump and for any leaks. Insure the choke is set. You can start the engine with the carb disconnected, just remember to cap off the fuel line or the pump will spew old fuel all over the place.



I wouldn't worry about the fuel pump. You may want to clean the fuel system prior to reconnecting it to the carb.


I like using a remote starter so I can monitor things under the hood.


Insure the rig is in N or P and the brake is set(ask me how I know)



Always a good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy for any out of control backfires.




long term issues:
thermostat/weak antifreeze/leaking water pump

rust in fuel tank
rotted fuel and vacuum lines/belts

The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from it's government
Thomas Payne
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post #3 of 18 Old 04-13-2019, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the quick reply!
I understand about the fire extinguisher, hope the garden hose will do for right now.Lol! I very much appreciate the reminder of setting the brake and making sure the trans is in park or neutral. I didn't mention in my op it is an automatic.

I'll post up dates to the group as they occur. It's threatening a thunderstorm outside, I don't have a garage or carport to work under. I'm true to the meaning "shade tree mechanic"!
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post #4 of 18 Old 04-15-2019, 01:08 AM
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Looks like a nice find!

If it was a manual I would be suggesting rocking it in gear but as it is an auto i would suggest getting a socket on the crankshaft pulley and easing it back and forth with a long bar. If it is well stuck the starter motor will not start it off, but going back and forth gently with the long bar will attack the grime and dust stopping the piston rings from both direction. Eventually something will start to give, hopefully not the piston rings. Don't worry if you see no results in first 5 minutes. Then add more lubricant, I used to use diesel but any oil will do, including B Blaster, it will work into teh crevices you are starting to open up..

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post #5 of 18 Old 04-15-2019, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the response! I understand and I have a socket and breaker bar on stand-by if needed! Lol! It's been stormy,here in the lowcountry of SC, since I got it home. Looks like tomorrow will be the earliest I'll be able to get started. I'll update as progress is made.
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post #6 of 18 Old 04-21-2019, 05:59 AM
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Looks like lots of good advice already. These fuel pumps last forever and rarely fail so it's probably fine. The fuel filter to carb will need to be changed. Bad fuel is the enemy. Chances are that the carb bowl is bone dry. You'll be rebuilding that carb anyway so I wouldn't worry about the seals on start up. They should be good enough to hold fuel that you pour in.
I haven't used MMO in the cylinders. Have used diesel fuel as it's basically a lubricant a squirted it in through the plug holes.

It's hard to resist just trying to start it up as-is but it looks like you've restrained yourself from doing that!! Good luck.

1984 Grand Wagoneer-5.9L V8 //1987 Cherokee-4L
1967 GMC C10, 283 //2007 Pontiac G5, 2.2L
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post #7 of 18 Old 04-22-2019, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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***update***

I was not as patient as I thought I was going to be,LOL! I tried the breaker bar method and the engine was not locked up! Thank the good Lord! I checked the oil,its about a quart low. Tranny fluid looks brand new,no burned smell! Only thing needing fluid was the POWER STEERING pump. I added to the "cold" Level,looks like the seals in the gearbox(I think I'm identifying that correctly)are bad,I can see it dripping out from underneath after it has had fluid in it for three or four days. This may have been a ongoing problem,there was an empty bottle of power steering fluid in the back of the vehicle.
So I bought a battery for her,after realizing the motor is not seized,sprayed a little starting fluid into the carb and SHE WOULD HAVE STARTED UP if I had had the external fuel tank hooked up! I can't believe it! After sitting for 12-15yrs! I did nothing to the distributor,plugs or anything!
So now I'm a little afraid of trying the external fuel tank Idea I had.LOL! I'd hate to burn this beauty to the ground!LOL!
I was going to try and use a lawn mower fuel tank with just a fuel hose running to the carb(clamps on the hose, of course) and set the tank on the cowl. The way my luck goes, I should probably not push it and my garden hose doesn't quite reach over to the shade tree where I'm working.LOL!
According to the fuel gauge,there is less than a quarter of a tank of fuel. Just enough to make the LOW FUEL light go out. I was going to try and syphon it out with a syphon kit I have, but I can't get the hose to reach the fuel. It's a 7/16 O.D. hose pretty rigid,I have used it before to syphon from a previous vehicle I had.
I tried hooking to the fuel line going from the fuel pump to the carb,with the fuel filter out,but I guess the diaghram in the pump won't allow it to pass through(?)
I looked under the carpet in back to access the top of the fuel tank, the plate looks like it's riveted and not screwed down. I've checked my "Haynes" manual I bought,but it doesn't give any detailed information about if it's riveted. I searched the forums here for any Fuel tank draining info,didn't find anyhting on my particular model.

That's where I am now. Needing info on the best way to drain the fuel tank. If I can get some fresh juice in her I believe this baby will run!

Thank you in advance for any replies!
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post #8 of 18 Old 04-22-2019, 11:24 PM
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Best way to do it (not the quickest) is to remove the fuel tank, empty it, and replace all the perished little rubber hoses that hold the fuel system together.

My J20 had every single one long perished. I was desirous of getting rid of the 10' hose connecting fuel pump to tank. I found the original fuel lines were still there and full of the white dust from old petrol. It took some compressed air to blow them clear then replacing all rubber parts. The fuel tank was plastic and split in four places, needed to plastic weld back together as unobtainable new. You should be luckier with yours parts wise but the whole system needs emptying and inspecting before you fire it up. This is not just about safety, they just do not run very well with slit hoses.

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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
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post #9 of 18 Old 04-22-2019, 11:31 PM
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Alternatively buy 10' of hose and connect to the pump inlet and put the other end in a small bottle of petrol about 6' from vehicle (we use 1l vodka bottles).

The pump diaphragm may or may not be intact, they are quite robust.

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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
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post #10 of 18 Old 04-23-2019, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
Sir Chomps
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Thank you for the reply!
I was afraid the answer was going to be dropping the tank I'm not trying to discount any suggestion before I try it, I'm trying to think ahead of what problems I will run into and try not to break anything or hurt myself)! LOL!
That maybe a little difficult for me at present because I don't have any way of jacking the vehicle up enough to allow me enough room to drop the tank. I don't have large enough jack stands to have it sit on, and we've had so much rain in my area the ground is, not soggy wet,but very soft which would probably cause the vehicle to be unstable on jack stands. Plus this "MOFO" is so heavy it would probably sink the jack stands right into the ground.LOL!
I never realized how heavy these vehicles are! I mean, I have hoisted many a vehicle onto a car hauler,using the usual"come-a-long method,but this thing was near to impossible! I had a medium sized chinese tractor that was not as difficult to hoist onto a trailer as this vehicle! Maybe the brakes are binding some, it definitely rolls but it's not exactly a "free roll" if that makes sense. You can see the imprint of the brake discs, on the rotors of the front, from where it sat for so long,I haven't removed the drums on the rear to see if maybe the shoes are dragging inside the drums. The tires on it are what it has been sitting on for the time it was parked,needless to say they aren't exactly "round" LOL!
My main goal was to determine the condition of the engine and tranny before digging into anything else or breaking anything,which I am very good at doing,before figuring out if it is capable of basic functions. As I mentioned,this vehicle is very solid! The doors shut very "tight",if that is the correct term. Very little rust on body or frame. Some leaking around the drivers door from the weather stripping but from what I've read online,that's pretty common on these,but the floor pan inside does not seem to be rusted or weak/soggy. Also,there appears to be a leak around the drivers' rear window,not the door,but window by the tailgate.
There's a small patch of green algae growing on the carpet,but once again the floor seems to be pretty solid. I haven't gotten the rear window down all the way, to lower the gate, the window seems to be binding or the vehicle needs to be running to give the motor enough juice to completely lower the glass. And the dash button still works,which maybe unusual,from what I've read.
I very much appreciate the response,I'll think on that and try and "brainstorm" a way of making it stable enough to perform the task. I suppose I could use the bumper jack(I love those old bumper jacks!)to raise it and then block it up somehow. I do have quite a few landscaping timbers I could cut and shore it up with those.
A few years ago,I did drop the tank and changed the fuel pump in a '98 Dodge Magnum rear wheel drive, quad cab pickup I had. I can't remember exactly how I managed that. And yes,I did it not to far away from the same "shade tree" I'm working under at present.LOL! it seems like the p/u had a little more ground clearance than the Grand Wagoneer is offering,now that I think of that,that doesn't make sense. Maybe the shocks are sagging a little as well.

Sorry to ramble on. Thanks again!
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post #11 of 18 Old 04-23-2019, 10:39 PM
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Sounds like a peach, i am getting jealous!!!!!

Those bumper jacks are notorious for slipping and killing, sounds like time to invest in jacks and stands, you will be spending a lot of time under there.

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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-25-2019, 12:18 AM Thread Starter
Sir Chomps
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*****2nd UPDATE*****

I decided to drill out the rivets(before trying to remove the fuel tank) in the access plate for the sending unit, fuel pickup tube and tank vent line,not sure why the plate was riveted and not having screws in it. I hooked my syphon pump to the fuel pickup tube and syphoned about a quart, maybe a quart and a half of old gas out of the tank.The fuel wasn't in terrible shape,orangey yellow,of course,but really clean,no trash,or any sign the tank maybe degraded.
I think that was about all that she had in her belly, rocking the vehicle side to side, I could not hear anymore sloshing of gas. I should also mention, the shocks on her are in amazingly good condition,but I'll be changing them out anyway, she settled right back in the middle of her stance on each rocking motion. Maybe I'm wrong and just hopeful! LOL!
After draining, the fuel tank,I hooked back all the fuel lines to the carb/filter. I did plug off the filter to tank vent line, maybe I should hook that back up(?). I had watched a YouTube vid where they had removed the smog pump(mine was previously removed)and plugged the vent tube from the filter. Now that I think about it,I don't remember seeing a vid showing it run with that setup!LOL!
I Added about 2 gallons of fresh petrol and some "Stabyl Fuel stabilizer". I had to go with the used fuel filter,for the time being, I'm living on a fixed income and I have put 90% of currently available funds in her(I have about $25 left until next Tuesday)LOL! ,including purchase price,rent for u-haul car hauler,new battery,gas to go pick her up and bring her home,"shop rags and supplies"(I used to love it when I'd see that on a repair bill when I didn't have time to do repairs myself)LOL! but I'm not complaining!
I start cranking her over,with the aid of some starting fluid, she popped back through the carb, good fashion!LOL! I thought then I had set her on fire!LOL! I did manage to scrounge up another length of garden hose to get water over to the shade tree before I started.
I let her cool down a minute, tried starting again. She's firing but she just won't quite light off. I'm pretty sure she's pumping gas,I flooded her a couple of times,I could smell the fuel vapors wafting into the drivers seat as I kept the door open in case I needed to make a quick dash for the water hose! LOL!
I kept trying to crank her over up until the new "Wal-Mart special" battery started getting weak.( I couldn't beat the price! I think it was $58 out the door,650 CCA,One year warranty.) I put it on the charger,when I decided to call it a day, it was surprisingly very low,it's been on the charger(2 amp slow charge) now for about 9 hrs and it is not yet fully charged
She never would fire off completely. She stumbled a couple of times but wouldn't run. It seems like maybe the timing isn't exactly advancing right(?) I did notice the ignition module has puked out all the tar insulation onto the wheel well. Not sure why it would do this. I've read,they can do this from an over charge of the alternator,as well as getting to hot. Maybe there was a condition with it before she was parked? There is a test procedure in the Hayne's manual I'll check out soon. I'm probably going "to ponder" over things before I cock the "parts cannon" and fire at will. LOL!

Any ideas/suggestions would very much appreciated! Is there a "work around" for the ignition module until I can get a new one?
Would having the filter vent line(I call it a vent line,it's the return line from the filter to the fuel tank for fuel vapor,correct?) plugged keep it from pumping the correct amount of fuel to the carb?

Thank you all for taking the time to read my post and for any ideas/suggestions!
I'll try and post some pics of the ignition module.
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Last edited by Sir Chomps; 04-25-2019 at 12:30 AM. Reason: trying to make it look like I can spell and construct a sentence that makes sense.
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post #13 of 18 Old 04-26-2019, 12:00 AM
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The ICM is leaking its potting, or pottage maybe, which is a sign if it about to fail.

However, not to fear, first thing is to check if you have spark. Take the lead from the centre of the cap and hold it NEAR the block. Spin it over and see if there is spark.

Take off the air cleaner and pour roughly 28g of fuel (i oz) straight down the mouth of the carb.

If you have spark and fuel she should start up. This may encourage the rest of the Jeep.

You may then find that it is split and cracked rubber in the fuel lines stopping a flow of juice to the carb.

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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
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post #14 of 18 Old 04-26-2019, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you BagusJeep!
First thing I did,Yesterday morning was made sure she is pumping fuel into the carb. Yeah! She's got good squirts going into both chambers when operating the accelerator pump by hand and looking down into the carb! No,I didn't have the battery back in her yet. LOL!
I'm positive she's got spark because,she fires up,but stumbles like she doesn't want to take the fuel. Also, she was acting like the timing wasn't right when she would get past the initial fire into run,sometimes she would even kick backwards,I could see the fan kick back,with the hood raised, looking under from the driver's seat. I was also watching for any flame out of the carb. LOL!
I mentioned the smog pump has been removed. I was looking around at the vacuum hoses, they are a mess! I noticed what looked like the vacuum advance from the distributor was pinched or kinked against the power steering bracket, I think I got that sorted, I removed the cap and made sure the vacuum advance is functioning. The PCV valve was (which is an in-line type valve,3/8" or 7/16" O.D.) clamped into a 5/8" or 3/4" I.D, red heater hose,LOL! (I can't say anything I've had to "just go with what you got" before) showing a lot of blow-by on the carb and intake. I, surprisingly, had a piece of red heater hose, couldn't find the size on the hose but I'm guessing 1/2"I.D. or smaller. The PCV valve fit snug inside. Also, the EGR valve was stuck. Reaching underneath, I was able to free it up. It did not have a hose connected to it,if I remember correctly the EGR has to be hooked to a vacuum line or plugged for a vehicle to run correctly(?) A lot of the vacuum hoses are dry rotted or cracked.
On the charcoal canister some lines are connected and some are not.
It appears the previous owner was in the process of removing the emission controls but didn't finish or didn't completely understand what to remove(?) not placing blame, I know in the past, I've gotten side tracked working on things or think I know more than I actually do about a system and get things all "fudged" up! LOL! The vehicle probably would have ran like this but probably not idle well and probably run rough as heck! Maybe this is the reason it was parked. I know the previous owner had gotten sick and passed away some time after parking it.
I'll try and get some pics of the current condition of the vacuum hoses and routing. I you can offer any help in what I should do, that would be a great help! I would be wanting to just delete everything at the carb since the smog pump is already removed. There is no smog inspection,currently, in my state. Not to say they won't get it if they realize they can make money off of it. LOL!
I didn't try and start her yesterday after going through some of the vacuum hose issues. I'll try that first thing this morning

Thank you again for your time and input!

Last edited by Sir Chomps; 04-26-2019 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Posted in error before completing reply
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post #15 of 18 Old 04-26-2019, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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******update 3*******

I got her fired up!!!! She ran for a few minutes!! Although rough....pretty rough to be honest, sounds like she's missing on at least one cylinder. LOL! I suppose that is to be expected after sitting for 12-15 yrs!
Prior to trying to start her, I opened the choke plate and gave her a good toott of some starting fluid down her gullet. She lit right off!! Trying not to rev her, I was going to let her idle till she came up to temp, but she started to sputter and cough,then she shut off and wouldn't start again The temp gauge never moved, the oil pressure was showing just under 80( that seems a little high to me, maybe she's got a little sludge build up?), battery was showing charge of around 15 volts(that seems a little high to me also,I checked the batt voltage before I installed it, it was showing 12.92 volts), The engine sounded fairly decent,I thought I would be hearing lifter tap at least! The power steering pump was whining, after she shut off I added some more fluid. It wasn't completely out again,barely showing on the cold mark after she ran. Sounded like your typical Ford PS pump, not to knock Ford, but it seems like they always have that whine.
No matter, at least I know she's capable of running!! I found on further attempts to restart her, it seemed she wanted to run, just at the point when I would turn the ignition switch back to the off position.(If that doesn't make sense, I can give further details)
The ignition switch has been replaced, as matter of fact, it doesn't have the thumb tabs(?) on the switch itself that you would usually see. There are a couple of areas on the column,up by the steering wheel,that are busted out of the plastic on the column, like maybe she was stolen! LOL!( I can get some pics and post if any one is curious).Could the PO have fudged an ignition replacement and there's a short in there?
Referring to the HAYNE'S MANUAL,(troubleshooting by starting but immediately stalling,or starting and rough running) it's leading me to check the "BALLAST RESISTOR". I'm not familiar with this at all! Is the "BALLAST RESISTOR only an AMC thing? Am I reading to much into the equation?
Anyone got suggestions/ideas?
Today I'm going to pull the plugs, gap them if they are worth it. LOL! And try and separate/inspect the plug wires, most are bundled together on top of the engine, I noticed one was touching the exhaust manifold.....the usual scenario found as far as plug wires go. I didn't want to move things around too much, before trying to start her since she was known to be running when parked. That is my reason for not checking the plugs and wires before.

Thank you all again for your time and your replies!
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