1984 Wagoneer gauges not working - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 12 Old 08-16-2019, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
84Wag
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1984 Wagoneer gauges not working

Hello all.

About three years ago, i got a 1984 wagoneer (all stock) in rough shape but running and driving well. The temperature gauge, oil pressure and fuel gauge do not work, all lights, amp and speedo work great, just not those three gauges.

I had one place look at it, but they had no luck, i found some helpful info about the temp gauge cvr and fuel gauge causing this, but i removed them one at a time, yet the other gauge nor the oil pressure gauge ever started working (i did not remove the thing on the back of the board coming out right at the temp gauge, it would not come off and every one was saying the cvr thing was integrated into the temp gauge, so i left it be)

I have power and ground on the board, i have a meter and tested both sides of the terminals on the back of the board, but no mater what i change, both sides read 00.01 to 00.02, no idea what that means (if anything) but thats all i've been able to find.

Would anyone here know of this issue or other tests i could do? would really like to take this thing on a trip but no gauges has me worried.

Thanks.

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post #2 of 12 Old 08-18-2019, 11:50 PM
BagusJeep
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I have put on auxilary gauges just to get my J20 back on the road. They do not cost very much and you can have oil press, volts, water, fuel gauges, vacuum, etc quite cheaply. Autometer gauges and some cheap Chinese gauges cost about $60 total including two 3 gauge pods that can be screwed to the underside of the dash. I am using mechanical temp and oil press gauges as they are just more reliable. The fuel gauge is a 0-90 ohm gauges that will underead the 9.6 - 75 ohm tank sensor. yes, too busy to be frustrated, i need to be on the road.

The cluster itself I did get working at one point but it was a messy business. I will try again shortly.

First of all the connectors need to be very clean. You can get some contact cleaner and a q tip and scrub.

Secondly, the circuit board needs to be inspected to be free of cracks and breaks. If you have any, they can be soldered.

Next check the connector on the harness. this is a great place to check you are getting signals as you should on C and L. E, F, G , I and J will require voltage from the appropriate switch.

A C E F G I J L

Start with the power E and ground A and then work through the rest of the switched power. No power will stop you dead and the ground is for the lamps, not the gauges.

I compare the signal from sensors on C and L against the ground at the connector, not too worried if 100% accurate, just that I am seeing a low to mid resistance so I know it is connected and will move the gauge needle.

A is ground - black - needs to be a high quality ground or the lamps will not light
C is water temp signal - purple with tracer
E - power - red with tracer
F - turn signal repeater (can't remember which side) green
G - turn signal repeater (can't remember which side)green with tracer
I is cluster lights - turn on at the headlight switch and passes through fuse box, then to cluster - orange
J - high beams indicator- gray with tracer - fed from the foot switch
L - fuel gauge - pink


The other connector is for the oil pressure gauge sensor plus a ground. it has two wires, one black is a ground, the other purple is the signal. Check across these two that you have a resistance. The ground in fact grounds the lamps, not the gauge.
Attached Thumbnails
fsj gauge cluster.jpg   fsj gauge cluster close.jpg  

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 12:08 AM
BagusJeep
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You will note the ammeter is not part of the cluster.

take my advice, throw it away and cut the wires back to where they can be joined safely. Old ammeters have a habit of catching fire and it is crap. there is a bodge of making a Sunpro voltmeter fit the hole, which is a better indicator of teh charging system.

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #4 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 12:20 AM
BagusJeep
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There is one other ground that is not mentioned much but appears on the detailed wiring diagram.

If you sketch out which of those circuits may be the ground return you realise pretty quickly that the circuit board itself is grounded. Circled (shading is mine, must update). make sure you have this connected and are not just relying on the grounds in the connectors. I see your lights work so one or other of the grounds in the connectors is making contact.
Attached Thumbnails
fsj clutsre grounds.jpg   fsj gauge ground.jpg  

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #5 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 12:34 AM
BagusJeep
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then I would check the pins on the cluster. they are prone to working loose and may need resoldering. Simple job, get it on the workbench and check for continuity from each pin to its destination

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #6 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 12:54 AM
BagusJeep
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Oil pressure gauge.

As you may have worked out, the oil gauge connector has one wire for the sensor that connects to (in above diagram) the left terminal. This is a simple resistance meter so it all then needs is power on the right hand terminal, which is fed through the circuit board back to the large connector terminal E. It is a 5V gauge and is receiving power through voltage regulator.

These gauges are often broken, they are cheap enough to replace. test is whether it has a resistance across the terminals i.e. the coil inside is not bust.

This gauge is not relying on the cluster being grounded.

If you are not getting a pulsing voltage 12V at the right hand terminal, check for a broken trace etc going back to teh water temp gauge A terminal.

You could check signal resistance, it changed over time so make sure you get the right data. mine runs on:

0 psi = 69 - 77 ohms
80 psi = 9.5 -10.5

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #7 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 01:02 AM
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Fuel gauge

This is a simple resistance gauge BUT, to maintain "accuracy" it runs at a constant average of 5V.

Before modern electronics came Jeep, they used a metal strip which heated up, broke contact, cooled down, repeated. The CVR. It eventually wears out. Best place to test is between the CVR terminal and a ground, using a 12V test lamp it would flash.

If you have 12V on E and flashing on the water temp A, it is working. Check this on the right hand terminal of fuel gauge and right hand oil pressure gauge, are they also flashing?

If CVR is not working, neither the temp or fuel gauge will work. It can be bypassed and a connection made to the A terminal with a modified supply, a modern CVR.

The fuel gauge itself is another resistance gauge.

You will note a masking tape wrapped bridge at the back of the temperature gauge. This is a capacitor, a noise suppressor, it is not the CVR

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 01:32 AM
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I colored up the diagram a bit better so you can see what runs where.

The pink is 12V, the green is the regulated supply (12V pulsing to an average of 5V)

I circled the noise suppressor
Attached Thumbnails
fsj clutsre grounds 2.jpg  

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #9 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 02:09 AM
BagusJeep
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"I have power and ground on the board, i have a meter and tested both sides of the terminals on the back of the board, but no mater what i change, both sides read 00.01 to 00.02, no idea what that means (if anything) but thats all i've been able to find."

Looks like you have grounds on the board, they are not relevant to the gauges.

Where did you find power? Was it 12V? Did you find CVR pulsing power an average of 5V?

Sounds like the CVR is not working. In which case you need a new water temperature gauge which is $36 at BJ Offroad.

The other gauges (off the vehicle on the bench) should measure a resistance across them.

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-19-2019, 02:21 AM
BagusJeep
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These may also help, from 1981
Attached Thumbnails
fsj gauge.jpg  
Attached Images
   

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #11 of 12 Old 08-26-2019, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
84Wag
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Thanks to all that replied, the wiring diagrams helped alot, learned alot to as i was not diagnosing it currently.

After going back and seeing no 5V, i ordered a new temp gauge, after install, the gauges would flicker but all would go back to nothing when running... so started checking everything again and found good ground when off, but had like 60mV on the ground with key on, i get the ground wire out of the connector and by itself would not stay in the pin on the board, pinching it closed and put it back in the connector and that fixed it!!!

I now have working fuel, temp and oil pressure, i can't believe it.

Super thanks everyone, you guys rock.
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post #12 of 12 Old 08-26-2019, 10:16 PM
BagusJeep
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84wag, well done. You have inspired me to have another go at my cluster this weekend.

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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