1968 Jeep Wagoneer - resources and other q's - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 04:35 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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1968 Jeep Wagoneer - resources and other q's

So, I sold my TJ about 8 years ago but recently got sucked back into owning a Jeep.

I wanted a "Oldtimer" as they are called here (Germany) to work on and drive around. I stumbled across a 1968 Jeep Wagoneer in the Netherlands, and like the fool that I am, I bought it. It arrived crustier than expected and leaks out of every possible seal, orfice, whatever...except the rear differential, so it's probably empty.

I am also 99.99% sure these people paid someone off for it to pass NL inspection in May.

Anyway, I am stuck with it now. I've contemplating sending it to scrap, reselling as is (taking a small loss), reviving it, or lighting it on fire and walking away.

What I have discovered is that it is hard to find parts for a '68 (should have gotten '74+ but here we are), and I am very thankful that Rock Auto ships to my APO address, even though it's expensive! BJ's allegedly ships to APO, but I haven't received my order or a shipping notification yet, so I hope all goes well with that. It is easier for me to say which parts I don't need vs. what I do need. I know some pieces/parts are interchangeable through the years, but not as much as I'd like (mostly just body stuff).

So where can I find parts for this thing? Or any resources/info? IFSJA is taking their sweet time "approving" my account so I can't post there, but I can certainly search and browse around. I know a lot of groups are on Facebook now so I could search there.

I am having a body/paint shop access it tomorrow to see how much it will cost to de-rust and repaint the frame and body, and I'll need to re-do the weather stripping and maybe a trim piece or two.

Any direction pointing is appreciated when it comes to finding parts and accessories for this oldtimer.

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post #2 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 06:00 AM
jeepdaddy2000
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Depends on what you're looking for.

Much of the drivetrain is standard Dana Spicer (D20, 44, and 27A).
Steering column should be GM.

You need to tell us what engine/trans combo you are running.
A list of other needs?


PS
A picture is worth a thousand words...........................

The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from it's government
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post #3 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
Depends on what you're looking for.

Much of the drivetrain is standard Dana Spicer (D20, 44, and 27A).
Steering column should be GM.

You need to tell us what engine/trans combo you are running.
A list of other needs?


PS
A picture is worth a thousand words...........................
Yeah, drivetrain parts aren't too bad to source. I may need a new steering column and/or steering wheel. I need some chrome window trim (back passenger door - right side) since I have it, but it is 50% rotten. The engine is the 5.7L 350 V8 with TH400 transmission.

I think most of my trim pieces are ok enough that they should be able to be re-done/dipped. I need front turn signal light coveres (plastic all cracked). I need to decide on a head unit (original radio), but that is minor. I need a wiring harness to deal with the rats nest (prob just have to get universal). I need a gas tank and will have to re-do and go over the fuel system. It is currently running on LPG and I'd like to convert it back to gas or have the option to switch, but the gas system hasn't been used in...who knows how long, really.

I need a new suspension. I'd like a 2.5 in lift, but all I have found is the 4" BJ's (not a huge fan of Rusty's) and I am praying that they will ship it here. I also need new steering - tie rod, drag link, I can find the ends easy enough. I think I was able to source most gaskets.

I am going to rebuild the oil pump and replace the sending unit/switch since the oil light is on. I did read something about some kind of spacing plate (I can't remember exactly what they called it) but couldn't really find one to be shipped. So I need to look into that further but it is supposed to alleviate the low oil pressure issue of these engines.

The engine actually sounds decent, but I am sure I will make discoveries as I drive.

Blows my mind the rats nest of wiring, WHY. WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS. They put a switch next to the choke (sliding horizontal lever) that you really have to be mindful not to hit when you're adjusting the choke since it is right there with no space. It starts with turning the key "on" then a push button...just a key start would be fine. I know I'm forgetting some things. And again, I haven't driven it much (not registered at the moment) so I am sure there will be more.
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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So, pictures. I feel like it is very photogenic as it is worse than it looks
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post #5 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 05:36 PM
Dngrs1
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Add this to your list of places to browse/ shop https://www.teamgrandwagoneer.com/

I would rather have a tool I don't need, than need a tool I don't have.
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post #6 of 14 Old 07-23-2019, 08:58 PM
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I have had bad experience with TGW, but BJ has always been good. BJ has some of those parts I just cannot find elsewhere. Rockauto are cheaper on service parts. Trouble is, shipping adds 50% to everything I order, so I have to get the cheaper source, than support the specialists.

The under dash wiring is a mess on many old FSJ, fortunately it is not very complex. You can remove all the switches from their holes and try to drop the loom on to the floor to work out what went where and what does not work. The switches can fail from old age but Rockauto and BJ have them, even some of the connectors. The wires themselves are quite ordinary.

Rebuilding the column is quite straightforward and the parts are cheap, those steering wheels are very hard to find and a modern one would just not look as good. You may find that there is a starter button because the $10 ignition switch on the column has failed, they often do. PO in the past will have had trouble finding parts.

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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
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1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
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post #7 of 14 Old 07-24-2019, 01:33 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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I have not heard anything positive about TGW. If they were the only ones that had what I needed, I'd have to give them a shot, but they are low on my list.

Re BJ's: I ordered a new aluminum radiator, oil pump rebuild kit, transmission and transfer case kit a few days ago, but they have not processed my payment or shipped the items yet. So I am really hoping I don't get a "this is out of stock until forever" type email. Of course I'll give them some time.

Rock Auto was super fast.

My shipping on Rock Auto was about $100, but when I tried to source everything I bought from amazon, eBay, other sites, it still came out about the same as the Rock Auto parts were $3-$10.00 cheaper.

I'm going to get into the wiring ASAP. There are so many random capped off ends and junk. The battery has this negative terminal disconnect thing on it, and the battery is new, so methinks there is a draw somewhere.

I think the steering wheel is ok but there is a part below it that is cracked. I have to take a closer look.

Also, the body shop guy stopped over and told me it would cost about $23,000 to fix the dings/rust in the body and paint it. I told them this does not have to be show car quality, just look ok and inhibit further rust, and to ignore the chrome for now. Seems "a bit" high based off of my research. It fits in my restoration budget, but I want to get some more quotes.
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post #8 of 14 Old 07-24-2019, 05:59 AM
jeepdaddy2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetscuh View Post
Re BJ's: I ordered a new aluminum radiator, oil pump rebuild kit, transmission and transfer case kit a few days ago, but they have not processed my payment or shipped the items yet. So I am really hoping I don't get a "this is out of stock until forever" type email. Of course I'll give them some time.

Also, the body shop guy stopped over and told me it would cost about $23,000 to fix the dings/rust in the body and paint it.
23K? How much to ship a rig to you?
https://goldcountry.craigslist.org/c...940190544.html
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/...935432596.html
It may be cheaper to go on vacation to see these, then purchase and ship them back home
The Buick will be a bit happier with a drop in HEI from a 75 and later.


The stock Quadrajet came with an auto choke so when you convert back to gas, you should be able to get rid of the manual choke.



The ignition is a simple dash mount and should be available.


I had a 70 for many years and really loved it. Wound up selling it to a buddy who parted it out for a Land Cruiser Project. The 11" brakes on my CJ came off it, so I guess I still have it around...........




PS:
Quote:
I did read something about some kind of spacing plate (I can't remember exactly what they called it) but couldn't really find one to be shipped. So I need to look into that further but it is supposed to alleviate the low oil pressure issue of these engines.
That would be a Melling high volume oil pump. I run one of these in my Buick V6. In stock form a good Buick engine will not suffer from any low oil pressure issues. If you are concerned, I would run a pressure test with a mechanical gauge to see what you have going on.


If you do go with one, you will have to remove the timing cover to drill the two guide hols for the centering pins on the spacer. It is an easy install, but if not needed, is it worth it?

The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from it's government
Thomas Payne
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-24-2019, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
23K? How much to ship a rig to you?
https://goldcountry.craigslist.org/c...940190544.html
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/...935432596.html
It may be cheaper to go on vacation to see these, then purchase and ship them back home
The Buick will be a bit happier with a drop in HEI from a 75 and later.


The stock Quadrajet came with an auto choke so when you convert back to gas, you should be able to get rid of the manual choke.



The ignition is a simple dash mount and should be available.


I had a 70 for many years and really loved it. Wound up selling it to a buddy who parted it out for a Land Cruiser Project. The 11" brakes on my CJ came off it, so I guess I still have it around...........




PS:

That would be a Melling high volume oil pump. I run one of these in my Buick V6. In stock form a good Buick engine will not suffer from any low oil pressure issues. If you are concerned, I would run a pressure test with a mechanical gauge to see what you have going on.


If you do go with one, you will have to remove the timing cover to drill the two guide hols for the centering pins on the spacer. It is an easy install, but if not needed, is it worth it?
Yeah, I think the ignition is rather simple. I am going to test the oil pressure to see what it actually reads. I am hoping between the new sending unit and rebuild that will take care of it. I have no idea how many miles are on this engine. It sounds and runs quite good though, so I don't think it has been drastically starving for oil for long.

That being said I think this particular Jeep is turning out to be too much work and I put it up for sale for a set price (just get it out of my garage type deal), and if someone wants it for said price, I'll probably part with it. I'll either give them the parts, or send them back. I'll continue working some stuff in the meantime. I didn't think it would need a complete restoration so soon - seeing as it passed an inspection good for 2 years I figured it could drive somewhat as is for a bit. I have a good budget for it, but I don't know that I am interested in spending it on this particular vehicle.

I did wonder if I could just wire wheel and POR15 the frame myself (we also have a pit in our garage so this makes it a bit easier for some things) and have it come out decent, but again, I don't know if I want to put forth the time and effort.
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post #10 of 14 Old 07-29-2019, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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I'm probably an idiot (I am) but I decided to keep the hunk of junk. Someone did offer to pay what I was asking if I transported the vehicle to them...even though I specified in the ad I have no means of doing that and I'm not about to foot a shipping bill to someone else because I'm not desperate. I also may have been severely sleep deprived before between my workload and puppy that both do a nice job of keeping me busy.

Anyho, maybe I should start a build thread. I've been working away at the underside and ordered some POR-15. I also ordered a 4" lift, new aluminum radiator, seals, seals, and more seals, oil pump rebuild kit, and did I mention...seals? Also going to rebuild the closed knuckles (Dana 27), and brakes. We'll probably do an engine rebuild for the heck of it in a year or so. It looks like the gas tank is in better condition than I thought so I may be able to keep it which makes my LPG to gas conversion easier. I think I'll slap some BFG All Terrains (31's - has 29's now...Copper Cobra or something) too.

The engine sounds good so far and received a compliment from my neighbor so I'm not totally disturbing the peace...but I think it is too loud since inspection only allows 95 decibels...but I can mess around with the exhaust/muffler situation.

The oil filter had a date on it from 2013 - no one has done jack to this thing aside from a new V-belt and cheap distrubutor, which the PO was so proud of. It really annoys me when people neglect their stuff. I mean, someone went through the trouble to import it from the US and just let it go to crap.
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post #11 of 14 Old 07-29-2019, 08:51 AM
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Simple observations from my rig:
The Buick 350/Turbo400 combo is simply excellent. Robust, common (at least here), and simple. The Buick with the Q jet will get good mileage (mine got 18 with the 2bbl) and plenty of room in the inside.


The 267A can be weak under the rig. They were breakable under CJ's with the Buick V6(personal experience here). While I didn't have any issues with mine, I didn't do any heavy wheeling either. A long term solution is to swap in a later D44 (preferably with disks) or install a powr lok traction diff in the existing unit.



I wound up putting spacer blocks under the front seat mounts. I hated that "sitting on the floor" feel.


The stock exhaust went over the rear axle and exited out the rear. An upgrade to a larger pipe from the joint back will give the engine some added breathing and with a flow through muffler will keep the noise down.


Removing the propane and going to an HEI will eliminate a lot of the junk under the hood.


It's funny. I got to the point where I hated driving mine (crude, no AC, etc) but after I sold it, I missed it. Still miss it today.

The duty of a patriot is to protect his country from it's government
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post #12 of 14 Old 07-29-2019, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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It seems like the engine/transmission combo is good and easy to source parts for. My engine has low oil pressure, so I'm really hoping the new sending unit, rebuild, and plate will fix the issue. I have no idea what weight oil is in there now, but that'll all be changed out too.

Yeah, I'm not stoked on the Dana 27, but this won't be a wheeling rig (I don't think that is even a thing here), so I think it'll do for now. I would like to swap a 44 in there as you mention but it would be nearly impossible to source one here, so I'll stick with what I have for a bit. Unlike my previous Jeep, this one will be mostly cruising in nicer weather and otherwise garage kept. It has a lot of rust so I don't want to expose it to the elements too much, but my underbody work and paint job should solve that problem - but I really wish I could find some front inner wheel/fender wells/liners.

I think I am going to try to route the exhaust out of the back again - stock style.

I also miss the smell of gas when it runs LPG is not the same.

Yes, my husband brought up that there is no AC...but it is not a daily driver and one can opt out of driving it in the heat. Those triangle windows help though! I am sure, as with any Jeep, this will be a long love-hate relationship.
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post #13 of 14 Old 07-31-2019, 01:18 AM
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My J20 has just completed a bare metal respray for 10% of what you was quoted.

It must have included panel replacements and rust repairs?

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1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-31-2019, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
Jetscuh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BagusJeep View Post
My J20 has just completed a bare metal respray for 10% of what you was quoted.

It must have included panel replacements and rust repairs?
He said it needed no panel replacements, but yes some rust repairs/sanding down some surface rust. There are a few small dents too.

I think it is just more expensive here and to be quite honest, people don't like to work here. I think he just didn't want to do it and quoted a high price. I have 3 other shops I am interested in but I cannot get a quote because I cannot drive it on the road. It will not pass inspection until I seal up these leaks (in the process) and install a new suspension because mine is very worn out and rusty -- I could have it on the road by mid-end of August but my suspension is on back order / out of stock from BJ's. I have read that typically this kit or others by them are usually out of stock, so perhaps they make to order, I don't know, demand could be low. Either way I am just glad they have something and are willing to ship it, otherwise I'd be SOL. It is so hard to find things for a '68. So the paint job will have to wait a few months I imagine because I am not towing it everwhere to get quotes.

I was thinking a frame off restoration of paint and body would run me 25-35k, but apparently I am way off since just the body cost 20k...in Euros. But I can tackle the frame and whatnot on my own.

People may also be put off by its size when it comes to painting. There is one other guy in my village that I can probably get to come to by house and give it a look, but I am not sure of his reputation or work. More time for me t o decide on a color I guess. I was thinking Olive Mist at first but I am kind of feeling the darker blue too. I am also somewhat okay with the original color. Either way I want it to be a color that was offered for that year.
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