Four link suspension layout? - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-08-2008, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
harley2003rkc
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Four link suspension layout?

Well its time to start laying out the four link suspension for the rear of my rig and I've got a few questions about what has worked best for others. I plan to put the rear end and the frame on stands approx. where they'll sit, to make further measurements a little easier this weekend.

1) I know many of you have chosen to run coil springsand shocks instead of coil overs due to price. So what height spring on a CJ 7 to run 37's?

2) When laying out your equations, what did you use for your center of gravity?

3) Heims, Johnny Joints, or both?

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post #2 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 01:51 AM
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I dont have a cj but the same kit that is for the tj can also be set up for the cj
heres a link
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...-1-c-1205.html
that set up will work great with coil overs

and if you want some coils (like tj coils)
ballistic fab has coil buckets for the frame and axle
heres a link
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/...ts_c_32-1.html

you can get the coil buckets for the axle from rubicon express to

94 stock zj and a 95 zj with a 5.5" lift with 35" bfg km2 a rear currie 9in with 4.56 gears an arb and 35spine axle shafts and 4.56 gears in the front Hp30 super30 kit arb 4.1 low range transfercase
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 01:55 AM
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you can use all the computer programs you want to find the best figures but you will find it comes down to where you have the room to put your mounts. if you've done a bit of research you've probably run across polyperformances kit pieces. pretty nice stuff for the first-time 4 linker.

i prefer the rebuildable style joints myself.
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post #4 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 05:38 AM
JeeperDon
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For minimal binding, use a three V on the top with both links effectively going to the same point. If the upper and lower links are different length as usual, it it's near impossible to prevent binding during flex. With solid heim joints, binding equals breaking/unwelding.

'93 YJ, '02 GM 4.3V6, SOA, dual ARB's, 8.8+D30(WarnHubs), 4.88s, 35" Patagonia M/Ts, AX15, NP231+4:1+SYE+2LO, York OBA.
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post #5 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 07:34 AM
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Your spring height/rate is really dependent on how much "sprung weight" they're going to be holding up. If I were going to build with regular coils, I'd probably look at something like TJ front lift coils. I'd mock the suspension up, tack the spring mounts in place, set the full weight of the rig on the springs and see how it sits. I'd then move the spring mounts up/down accordingly to get the ride height I want.

'80 CJ5 w/AMC360, T176, D44 w/Detroit 4.56, RE 4" YJ lift and 35s..



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post #6 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 12:20 PM
jason m
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i think the most important question is what axles are you going to use? i ask this because its stupid to weld and fab all the bracket's to axle that cant grow with your jeep. jason.

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post #7 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
harley2003rkc
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mr4x4... Thanks for the links. The ballistic fabrication mounts are cheap enough that its not worth my time to fab the mounts myself.

fratis... I think the Johnny Joints are rebiuldable if I remember right. Plus someone told they would help absorb vibration better then the Heims.

JeeperDon... I don't know what your referring to when you say a three V. But I was planning on fabbing a reinforcing truss across the top center section of the rear axle to use also as a mount for the uppers in the center of it.

BESRK... I wish setting the full weight on the springs were and option. I don't have the tub as of yet. Still looking. So I was hoping I could find out what has worked for others to get it close, and then if needs be I can shim for minor adjustments later.

jason m... Tenatively I'm using a 14 bolt FF rear w/ a Detroit locker and the a 10 bolt corporate front until I can find a deal on a Dana 60.

Thanks for all the advice so far guys. Keep it coming, your a huge help. The research on this would be an extreme killer without resources like you guys and this site.
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post #8 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 04:51 PM
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If I were doing this and didn't have the tub yet, I'd tack everything in place and finish welding after the tub/weight were installed. Nothing brings the suck worse than cutting off hard work.

Johnny Joints can be rebuilt and "shimmed" to take up slop. However, there are other joints out there that are adjustable with a threaded plate and set screw so you don't have to take them apart to take up the slop. Having said that, I run 16 Johnny Joints on my buggy.. nothing like explaining to the wife why you need to spend $800 on joints.

'80 CJ5 w/AMC360, T176, D44 w/Detroit 4.56, RE 4" YJ lift and 35s..



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post #9 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
harley2003rkc
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What do you guys think of these joints from Poly Performance? I couldn't find anyone elses load data to compare them too.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...p-1-c-727.html

And I found these rear XJ lift springs from tellico.

http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_in...ducts_id/27427

Last edited by harley2003rkc; 10-09-2008 at 08:59 PM.
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post #10 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley2003rkc View Post
fratis... I think the Johnny Joints are rebiuldable if I remember right. Plus someone told they would help absorb vibration better then the Heims.
yes i used the term "rebuildable" instead of a specific brand. johnny, RE, ballistic, and i believe summit markets a variety. they are all similar and you can generally group them together. side by side i liked the RE joints a bit more then the johnnys. evo makes a heim/rebuildable hybrid but its $$.
not a real fan of heims for dd jeeps. id use a beefy one on the axle end of a wishbone but not on the frame-ends of regular links.
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post #11 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fratis View Post
yes i used the term "rebuildable" instead of a specific brand. johnny, RE, ballistic, and i believe summit markets a variety. they are all similar and you can generally group them together. side by side i liked the RE joints a bit more then the johnnys. evo makes a heim/rebuildable hybrid but its $$.
not a real fan of heims for dd jeeps. id use a beefy one on the axle end of a wishbone but not on the frame-ends of regular links.
So would you advocate Rod Ends on the axle end and Summit joints on the frame end of the links? If so which of the RE's from Poly Performance would you go with? I'm not sure that I need the largest they supply.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...p-1-c-727.html
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post #12 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 10:34 PM
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you can put the johnny joints on the axle side and a bushing on the frame side it will absorb alot of the noise

it will save a little bit of money to
have you checked the currie site for there johnny joints

http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...nnyjoints.aspx

the rock krawler hiems have the load rating of 60,000 Pound Radial Load Capacity and its only $5 for the rebuild kit


http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_in...ducts_id/27485

94 stock zj and a 95 zj with a 5.5" lift with 35" bfg km2 a rear currie 9in with 4.56 gears an arb and 35spine axle shafts and 4.56 gears in the front Hp30 super30 kit arb 4.1 low range transfercase
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post #13 of 15 Old 10-09-2008, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr4x4 View Post
you can put the johnny joints on the axle side and a bushing on the frame side it will absorb alot of the noise

it will save a little bit of money to
have you checked the currie site for there johnny joints

http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...nnyjoints.aspx

the rock krawler hiems have the load rating of 60,000 Pound Radial Load Capacity and its only $5 for the rebuild kit


http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_in...ducts_id/27485
I haven't heard of anyone using bushings on one end. Won't that restrict movement?
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post #14 of 15 Old 10-10-2008, 01:30 AM
mr4x4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley2003rkc View Post
I haven't heard of anyone using bushings on one end. Won't that restrict movement?
I would think a little but you still have the full movment at the axle end
many lift kits use the johnny at one end of the control arm and a bushing at the other

heres a good example they dont have coilover shocks
rock krawler uses there krawler joint at the axle end and a bushing at the other but they still have a lot of flex



the poly performance and genright kit sets up the control arms similar to rock krawler does

just look at the companys that build long arm kits for the jeep tj theres a few out there that use bushings at one end of the control arms

94 stock zj and a 95 zj with a 5.5" lift with 35" bfg km2 a rear currie 9in with 4.56 gears an arb and 35spine axle shafts and 4.56 gears in the front Hp30 super30 kit arb 4.1 low range transfercase
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post #15 of 15 Old 10-10-2008, 01:47 AM
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REs kits can be had with either a bushing on one end or the superflex at both ends. RE makes a small, a large, and a very larger "builders joint" i have not worked with the newer larger joint so can give no input. ballistic fab make a joint like curries that has a forged housing that incorporates a threaded end. you can put these at either end and have a bit more adjustability. this is nice if you tend to make changes frequently. add a tummy tuck type deal and you can easily re aim you pinion input.
i tend to like the joints that thread together better then the johnny joint style you have to press together and put a c-clip in. i like to be able to go back and crank it down later. at this point i think its forged housing and press together unit or threaded body and welded housing. id like a forged unit that is threaded together. whatever you go with they will all do a nice job.
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