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post #1 of 29 Old 07-24-2021, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
rfesu
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suspension advice

i have what i hope is a straightforward question. i know there's FAQs and lots of threads but i read up quite a bit and i'm still stumped.

i'm ready to do some suspension upgrades. i have a 4.0 wj with a budget boost some guy gave me for free when he got a real lift kit, cardon-cardon front driveshaft, 31" tires and some spacers, lots of trimmed plastic, so i think i'm pretty much ready for a proper 4" lift kit.

my average day is a high speed highway run, followed by a high speed run over beat up shot rock logging roads full of washboard and pot holes, then some really tight dirt/rock/log trails with various obstacles.

the stock wj actually does that okay, but...

i have three problems i want to solve:

- i break stock suspension constantly on those high speed logging road runs. i constantly eat front lower control arm bushings and beat up the y-link on the rear

- i lose tons of speed when i'm going over washboard, especially up hills. i feel like the suspension is eating all my momentum because it sucks. even when im coasting over washboard i have to floor it to keep moving, at which point it wants to chuck me off the road. other guys with rusty old pickup trucks blow by me while this is happening.

- i constantly lose traction on tight dirt trails with one or two tires in the air, and that usually means i slide into a tree, so all my fenders are different colors now. i feel like another few inches of flex from a 4" lift with some sway bar disconnects would keep me hooked up in most of those situations.

so from what i figure a long arm system would be a good idea, just because i do a lot of high speed stuff?

i don't really want to peice together something custom, would like a box kit, and i'm in canada so ordering lots of parts on their own would be a real pain.

i see that rough country makes a long arm kit with both front and rear long arms, and IRO makes a kit with long front and short rear.. but the rough country one is way way cheaper for some reason, and what appeals to me is it seems to replace all the stock highly compliant control arms with tubular stuff.

would that rough country kit stand up to some abuse, or is there some other path i should be following? it seems like on the surface the rough country X series stuff would handle better than the IRO kits but maybe there's something i'm missing.

is there a cheaper way to accomplish my goals that'll last?

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post #2 of 29 Old 07-24-2021, 05:40 PM
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RC is China that is why they are less.

personally i would not run their stuff if YOU paid for it. But its your heep......

much of your issue is shocks and tire pressure off road. perhaps slow down off road?
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post #3 of 29 Old 07-24-2021, 07:00 PM
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No to junk country. IRO is a way better lift. The joints are what you want to spend money on. RC joints are pure trash. Good shocks are also going to be a must. Cheap and quality aren't going to work you either need to shell out cash or keep it simple

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post #4 of 29 Old 07-24-2021, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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thats really good to know the rough country is too cheap to last. i know the cheap/good/fast rules and i totally agree that the joints are critical since that's what i'm wearing out at a high rate of speed.

no matter what speed i'm going on these roads, there's always a surprise around the corner... no avoiding taking a beating sometimes.

my current shocks are okay, they're rancho, i think. they're no bilistien but lots of guys out here use them.

i'll look into IRO a bit more deeply. do you think their approach to long arms in the front and short arms going to work for me?
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post #5 of 29 Old 07-24-2021, 09:05 PM
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unless you're gonna build a baja type suspension set-up, i'd stop driving the off-road stuff like i was being chased by rod hall. no suspension is going to survive high speed off-road stuff. even the off-road racers, and rallye guys are doing constant work, replacing beat up/broken stuff.


what is the "y-link"? r/c is garbage, for wj parts. your "4x4" really isn't a 4x4. maybe on dry ground, like a street it is, but lift one tire on opposite corners, and you aren't gonna go anywhere. you want a locker up front, at least, and maybe one in the back. if i could only do one end, it would be the front, so i could continue to steer/pull my way through stuff.



as far as "those other guys are blowing by me", who cares? is this some type of off-road race, you're trying to compete in? jeeping isn't about how fast you can get there. it's about getting there, and back again, in a condition that allows you to do it again tomorrow. if you are off-road racing, you've chosen the wrong platform to compete with.


Quote:
no matter what speed i'm going on these roads, there's always a surprise around the corner... no avoiding taking a beating sometimes.

if you're "surprised by what's around the corner" doing 5 mph, it might be time to let someone else drive. you said "no matter what speed". if you're being surprised by what's around the next curve, you are driving way too fast.



as soon as i read you wanted to work on your jeep "the cheaper way", i realized you're gonna spend a lot of time and money, replacing the cheap stuff you're looking for.



speed costs money. how fast do you wanna go? $$$$$$$$$$$$.......
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post #6 of 29 Old 07-24-2021, 10:57 PM
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My advice: slow down before you kill someone. Up on two wheels sliding into trees ... Who cares if someone passes you, it is not a race.


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post #7 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Doc View Post
RC is China that is why they are less.

personally i would not run their stuff if YOU paid for it. But its your heep......

much of your issue is shocks and tire pressure off road. perhaps slow down off road?
What pressure(s) do you run off road please 222?
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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before this turns into some flame fest about how i don't know what i'm doing, maybe you need to realize every environment is different, and i'm not doing anything special. i can't crawl at 5mph down 50+ miles of gravel to get where i want to (or sometimes need to) go, actually i'd probably get rear ended by a logging hauler if i did. where i live a lot of travel is done on gravel and it's in really bad shape, that's just how it is, and i want to get stronger stuff so it survives a bit longer, and doesn't slow me down when i'm going over washboard. i thought that was clear from my first post. i live in an area where some communities are a 2 hour drive down roads like that and it's the only way in or out. things do break. i'm always safe.
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post #9 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 04:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden-Arm View Post
]as far as "those other guys are blowing by me", who cares? is this some type of off-road race, you're trying to compete in?
you're just misinterpreting what i'm saying while assuming i'm an idiot. i'm not. i'm drawing a comparison so you know that in fact i have a limitation with my suspension that doesn't affect people with practically no suspension.
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post #10 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
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i just talked to a local, and he found that more than anything else he did, messing with his caster angle made a really massive difference on how things handle (or don't handle) on the washboard, at least as far as being able to stay on the throttle and being able to keep on track. he said he had to go a few more degrees positive and it was a miracle.

he says if i can fix it so i have better steering control, and i can vary my approach angle a bit and stay on top of it, it'll stop being like driving straight over a thousand tiny speed bumps.

at a glance it doesn't look like my caster angle is good at all with the stock arms and the budget boost, might explain why it's so hard to control. if that's true i definitely need some adjustable control arms and experimentation even if i did keep the budget boost....but i think that front long arm IRO kit is looking pretty tempting right now, at least it'll give me some extra adjustments to try out.
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post #11 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0 View Post
What pressure(s) do you run off road please 222?

8psi and at times 6 psi off road. street its 27 front and 25 rear. But i am running a D only ones they make in a 37x12.5x17. steel 17x9s at 4.25 BS.

My heep is mainly a off road toy as well. it does see street at times about 200 miles a year perhaps. mainly when we run Dusy Ershem it has a 66 mile loop to get to the 33 miles of trail. Rubicon trail, it roll from Tahoe to wentworth on the street. Its on trailer the rest of time. 37 are kinda expensive to wear out on the street. My dd is a old 96 f250 7.3.

higher speed off road i tend to run about 12 psi. but i have done that at 8 as well up to about 50mph through the desert. Makes wash board about smooth. But i have 11" of travel as well, that helps a lot. all the suspension are JJs and arms are all dom. near 10 years on those joints and mostly off road they are still good.

But its a JKR 2 door as well. its totally stripped. no air bags, no interior, no top or doors. front seats are aftermarket and i use 4 point harness.

I only run hard trails much the time the MPH is like 1-2 mph maybe 10 at the most off road. Unless its say a destert road to the trail. we tend to haul azz to get to the trail, since here in az a hard trail of say 3 miles might take all day.

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post #12 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 222Doc View Post
8psi and at times 6 psi off road. street its 27 front and 25 rear. But i am running a D only ones they make in a 37x12.5x17. steel 17x9s at 4.25 BS.

My heep is mainly a off road toy as well. it does see street at times about 200 miles a year perhaps. mainly when we run Dusy Ershem it has a 66 mile loop to get to the 33 miles of trail. Rubicon trail, it roll from Tahoe to wentworth on the street. Its on trailer the rest of time. 37 are kinda expensive to wear out on the street. My dd is a old 96 f250 7.3.

higher speed off road i tend to run about 12 psi. but i have done that at 8 as well up to about 50mph through the desert. Makes wash board about smooth. But i have 11" of travel as well, that helps a lot. all the suspension are JJs and arms are all dom. near 10 years on those joints and mostly off road they are still good.

But its a JKR 2 door as well. its totally stripped. no air bags, no interior, no top or doors. front seats are aftermarket and i use 4 point harness.

I only run hard trails much the time the MPH is like 1-2 mph maybe 10 at the most off road. Unless its say a destert road to the trail. we tend to haul azz to get to the trail, since here in az a hard trail of say 3 miles might take all day.
Thanks Doc.

Would you like to learn some stuff about working out road tyre pressures for non standard tyres?
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post #13 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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i used to try to smooth things out by running down to 15 psi, but the problem i ran into is a lot of our back roads are crushed shale rock, and sometimes it's really sharp. it turns out when you're driving on knives you kinda want your sidewalls to stay the hell away from them. it cost me a few tires, went back to 30 psi and haven't had a problem since
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post #14 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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.. of course when i get to a dirt trail, i do run them right down
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post #15 of 29 Old 07-25-2021, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfesu View Post
i used to try to smooth things out by running down to 15 psi, but the problem i ran into is a lot of our back roads are crushed shale rock, and sometimes it's really sharp. it turns out when you're driving on knives you kinda want your sidewalls to stay the hell away from them. it cost me a few tires, went back to 30 psi and haven't had a problem since
What size tyres do you run please?
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