Shield for fuel filler lines & evap container - 2003 Grand Cherokee - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 37 Old 08-04-2020, 05:46 PM
Jeepinpgh
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Originally Posted by HarveyCat View Post
Thanks all!

So I bought a new fuel filler neck, a new Mopar bracket & also ordered a Dorman skidplate for the tank. At 120,000 miles on my 2003 - should I also change the fuel pump for good measure while I have it all apart?

Also does anyone know what size & length of fuel lines I will need to buy? Or what size bolts for the skidplate and/or Vapor Canister bracket? Any other likely things? My friend is a mechanic - but since I am bringing this stuff to him he will want to have everything right then. Otherwise he might just reuse stuff that perhaps would be better swapped out. Here is my rusty old bracket!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFs7aiwHyGg
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Damn - spoke too soon. Leaked again today. Clearly from tank. Replacing the skid plate and need a new fuel pump. What is a good modestly price fuel pump?
Ah bummer. You say 'clearly from tank', are you sure?? Maybe attach a picture? There are lots of more common places for a leak than from the tank itself. In particular, the line running from the tank to the fuel filter if much more common. If you want to go straight for the tank drop option my advice would be: 1) lots of stories on this forum and elsewhere of problems with cheap aftermarket fuel pumps that fail or whine. I often buy less expensive components but I think the fuel pump is one where it is best to go with the more expensive Bosch option. 2) it sounds like your WJ is rusty like mine and if you are in NJ, expect the 6 18mm bolts holding the skid plate/tank to be tough to get out. I had to use a lot of heat and PB blaster, and still ended up rounding a couple of the bolt heads, and had to use a 18mm twist socket to finally get it off.

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post #17 of 37 Old 08-05-2020, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jeepinpgh View Post
the line running from the tank to the fuel filter if much more common

Can that be changed without dropping the tank? The gas pours out of the skid plate - the whole metal tank support. I thought it was running there from the filler tube hoses - but now that I replaced filler tube that clearly ain't it.
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post #18 of 37 Old 08-06-2020, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Today for the first time I am getting an engine light. Code is P1494

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post #19 of 37 Old 08-10-2020, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HarveyCat View Post
Can that be changed without dropping the tank? The gas pours out of the skid plate - the whole metal tank support. I thought it was running there from the filler tube hoses - but now that I replaced filler tube that clearly ain't it.
My fuel line was leaking right at the connection to the fuel filter, and yes that could be replaced without dropping the tank. Yours sounds like it is leaking from the connection at the fuel pump or therabouts, which would require either dropping the tank or cutting an access hole from the spare tire area which can be done (search online for videos).

That code makes sense, if you have an EVAP leak that air can leak out of, fuel could be leaking from that same place, or it could be unrelated tough to say. Tackle the fuel leak first, since you know that is a problem for sure, it might fix both
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post #20 of 37 Old 09-04-2020, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B6TzfxXRDo

Ok - so I changed everything including the pump, fuel lines, fuel filter - fuel tank - skid plate - evap bracket and filler neck. Seems to have solved the leak but now for first time ever - it is hard starting (or needs to be stared twice - though it does fire right up on the second try. Previously it had always just fired right up!* Any ideas?*
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post #21 of 37 Old 09-04-2020, 10:46 PM
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What brand fuel pump did you install? There's a check-valve on the pump outlet inside the pump module. On shut down it's supposed to close down and prevent fuel from draining completely back into the tank from the fuel line(s).

The fuel filter/regulator is a secondary system which also helps hold fuel in the supply line on shut down.

On first start-up of the day the fuel pressure in the lines may be '0' but there should be fuel in the line and not air. Typically people who have to prime their pump a couple times by turning their key on/off a couple times to get it to start may have a bad check valve on the pump outlet.

On Bosch pumps I've never seen a new one which lets fuel drain completely out of the lines being replaced with air which isn't the way it should work with a good check-valve.

Also curious where your fuel leak was and what brand of fuel filter/regulator did you install?

2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 ZJ


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post #22 of 37 Old 09-05-2020, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Uniblurb for the info - you are very knowledgeable. I put in a Bosch pump because first one had noise all the time. I also put in a Mopar fuel line & a Mopar fuel filter. BTW I changed the whole tank & rusty skid plate too. I have a 2003 so I have the odd bracket for evap under the fill tube - I changed all that out first. I have a mechanic friend who did the work. All told I gave him $550 - he dropped the rank twice and had to chase CEL for evap system a few times.

It did better this morning on the cold overnight startup.

https://youtu.be/_qCDzSI1hlI

Funny - but I never found out where it was leaking from... Hope it doesn't start again - next time I overfill it. He said it held when he filled it for me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
What brand fuel pump did you install?

There's a check-valve on the pump outlet inside the pump module. On shut down it's supposed to close down and prevent fuel from draining completely back into the tank from the fuel line(s).

The fuel filter/regulator is a secondary system which also helps hold fuel in the supply line on shut down.

On first start-up of the day the fuel pressure in the lines may be '0' but there should be fuel in the line and not air. Typically people who have to prime their pump a couple times by turning their key on/off a couple times to get it to start may have a bad check valve on the pump outlet.

On Bosch pumps I've never seen a new one which lets fuel drain completely out of the lines being replaced with air which isn't the way it should work with a good check-valve.

Also curious where your fuel leak was and what brand of fuel filter/regulator did you install?
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post #23 of 37 Old 09-05-2020, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyCat View Post
Thanks Uniblurb for the info - you are very knowledgeable. I put in a Bosch pump because first one had noise all the time. I also put in a Mopar fuel line & a Mopar fuel filter. BTW I changed the whole tank & rusty skid plate too. I have a 2003 so I have the odd bracket for evap under the fill tube - I changed all that out first. I have a mechanic friend who did the work. All told I gave him $550 - he dropped the rank twice and had to chase CEL for evap system a few times.

It did better this morning on the cold overnight startup.

https://youtu.be/_qCDzSI1hlI

Funny - but I never found out where it was leaking from... Hope it doesn't start again - next time I overfill it. He said it held when he filled it for me!
You're welcome HarveyCat. It helps to talk to a Bosch rep to gather info about their fuel pumps and that's mainly where that particular info came from. The Bosch rep also verified they make the pumps for Mopar who just relabels them while selling them for a lot more.

Good move in installing all those Mopar parts with the Bosch/Mopar pump module. I would guess it was the tank seal leaking and that should be fixed since a new seal comes with the new Bosch module.

In looking at your video the startup looks fine to me and it may get even better after using it for a little while. Good luck.

PS. This thread also helped me since I've been contemplating getting a new vapor equipment bracket for the real rusted one on my 04 4.7. Ordered and bought it and a couple mounting screws from the dealer where I get a 'cuz' discount while have yet to install it. Thanks.

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post #24 of 37 Old 09-06-2020, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Since you have talked to Bosch - I got my pump from a high volume high rated seller - they swear it is the same as the Bosch recommended pump - but it is a Bosch with a different number. The pump did however match exactly. The first one we put in was noisy so it did take a second pump - ironically it was not the cause of the leak - so tank had to be dropped second time anyway - since I was changing everything it seemed prudent to do pump now at 120,000 miles too. BTW the noisy one didn't have the lag in starting. The pump is a very good price if anyone needs one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/382430325125
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post #25 of 37 Old 09-06-2020, 10:59 PM
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That's real interesting about the fuel pumps, especially since the Bosch 67662 pump module is supposed to fit the 99-00 WJ and the Bosch 67721 is supposed to fit the 01-04. I'm not sure what the difference is but sounds like the earlier model version is working well in your 03 4.0.

That ebay vendor eHerko has been around quite a while and they used to sell Bosch & Mopar pump modules for the ZJ's real cheap.

EHerko is a reputable vendor but just don't buy a Herko brand fuel pump module which has a fuel pressure regulator built into it since your fuel pressure may be all over the board. We don't have to worry about that with our WJ's having the regulator build into the filter canister.

Thanks for the info and link.

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post #26 of 37 Old 09-08-2020, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
That's real interesting about the fuel pumps, especially since the Bosch 67662 pump module is supposed to fit the 99-00 WJ and the Bosch 67721 is supposed to fit the 01-04. I'm not sure what the difference is but sounds like the earlier model version is working well in your 03 4.0.

That ebay vendor eHerko has been around quite a while and they used to sell Bosch & Mopar pump modules for the ZJ's real cheap.

EHerko is a reputable vendor but just don't buy a Herko brand fuel pump module which has a fuel pressure regulator built into it since your fuel pressure may be all over the board. We don't have to worry about that with our WJ's having the regulator build into the filter canister.

Thanks for the info and link.
I must assume then that either Bosch pump will do all 99 to 04 WJs...

BTW - it is still a little more cranking then it was before this last pump change. Not a whole lot but like my last video - one full M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I...

Is this within the range of "normal" - I am worried about that ice cold January morning. Haha

https://youtu.be/7B6TzfxXRDo
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post #27 of 37 Old 09-08-2020, 11:35 AM
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I just had my fuel pump out for the 3rd time, because my plastic ring that clamps the fuel pump module to the tank had popped off...I reseated the pump module, and cranked the ring back down, and so far it has stopped my evap leak. (I too was getting a evap code before). But.....now my Jeep wont start right up like it used to either. I put a manual fuel pressure gauge on the system, and found that I am losing fuel pressure in the lines immediately after engine shutdown. Without that residual pressure in the line, it makes the pump have to reprime the system everytime you want to start it. I replaced the filter/regulator on a gamble, which proved to make no difference whatsoever. It appears the check valve in the pump is to blame. My fuel pump was working perfectly before i reseated it into the tank. Not sure why it this problem started with no warning, but it looks like i might be headed for the spare tire well access panel. If i have to keep dropping this tank, there might be a small car fire that accidently happens on purpose....

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post #28 of 37 Old 09-08-2020, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry to hear that. I changed the fiter and the line that runs from the pump to the filter - both are mopar parts. I think I am gonna have to contact Herko again about this new pump too - it seems like the check valve inside this particular pump - which is really Bosch's fault but Kerko is the seller. Hopefully Herko will just send another replacement. They had me mail back the last gas smelly one. My mechanic will not be happy! They really should have to cover the labor cost at this point! This is two for two that are bad right out of the new Bosch box!!
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post #29 of 37 Old 09-08-2020, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by HarveyCat View Post
I must assume then that either Bosch pump will do all 99 to 04 WJs...

BTW - it is still a little more cranking then it was before this last pump change. Not a whole lot but like my last video - one full M-I-S-S-I-S-S-I-P-P-I...

Is this within the range of "normal" - I am worried about that ice cold January morning. Haha

https://youtu.be/7B6TzfxXRDo
I'm not completely sold on either the Bosch 67662 fuel pump module made for the 99-00 or the Bosch 67721 which is made for the 01-04 is going to work 100% for all 00-04 years. Why would Bosch develop a newer part module for 01-04 WJ's if the older model one works fine?

The other day I went into the Bosch parts site to check on these fuel pumps. They won't let you look at anything w/o checking "Consent to Marketing Cookies" and agreeing to receiving all their ads which isn't going to happen.

Customer service sure isn't what it used to be and bet I couldn't talk directly to a Bosch rep like I did years ago on fuel pumps.

I watched your video multiple times and agree it's taking a little too long to start once it starts turning over. My 04 4.7 starts in about 3 seconds from turning the key over.

I thought maybe something is a little off since your voltmeter started raising up once you turned the key over but the fuel gauge takes a little longer for power to circulate through it. I went out and checked mine while it does the exact same thing so no problem there.

I remember where they did away with the schrader valve on the fuel rail on the 04 4.0 but is your 03 also missing the schrader valve on the rail? If you have one you could push the valve pin with a small screwdriver to see if fuel dribbles out of it after sitting overnight.

Think I already mentioned your fuel pressure is likely '0' after sitting overnight but there should be fuel in the rail near the supply line on that same side rather than air.

Do you also experience a starting delay after the first start in the morning? You shouldn't and it should start a whole lot quicker after some pressure is in the line. Fuel pressure spec is 49psi +/- 5psi and it should bleed off below 24psi after 10-20 minutes after shut-down.

Just to make sure you don't have a weak fuel pump relay believe I'd pull that relay which is #24 in the PDC and flip it with another relay which is the same 20A one. I wouldn't mess with the ABS one though next to it.

Below is a diagram of the PDC and good luck.
http://wjjeeps.com/misc/power_dist_ctr_02.jpg

PS/edit. just saw Bigrig's and your post while I was posting. Ugh and I've hardly seen any problems with these Bosch pumps themselves. Read one bad review on them on Amazon for one being loud but that was about it.

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post #30 of 37 Old 09-08-2020, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Uniblurb. I will look for a valve on my fuel line and check it. Will also see how it does with hot restarts. I live essentially in NYC - I am 5 blocks from subway to One WTC (5min subway ride) - so mostly I just move my jeep for street sweeping unless I am going down to Princeton. So I need to take it out for some errands. Haha
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