Selec-Trac only working in 2hi and 4ft - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-20-2020, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
MN Ben
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Unhappy Selec-Trac only working in 2hi and 4ft

Newer to me 04 WJ with the selec-trac system. I bought it last summer w/ 200k on the clock from the original lady owner who usually only drove it long distance in the winters. I have seen maintenance records on fluid changes on the drive system, which was encouraging and a selling point (although the engine is filthy oily from the valve cover casket).

Anyway, when I shift it to 4pt and 4lo it seems all 4 wheels grip for a very short time, 10 feet or so, and then the 4x4 disappears only the 2 rear wheels drive it.

I have read that if the 4pt and 4lo have not been used in some time they may stop working properly and should be used more and more to get/keep them working.

I have only been trying to get them to work on a snowy gravel road and the opportunities have been few and far between. I know things engage as I hear/feel the gears mesh while coasting in N at about 3 mph when I shift the xfer case.

Do you think the 4pt & 4lo will start working again the more I shift in and out of them and attempt to use them, or does this sound like something internal?

The 4ft works as it should.

Thanks for your advise and experiences.
MN Ben

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post #2 of 10 Old 01-21-2020, 12:22 AM
Bigrigr
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Thats an interesting concept. So, if i understand correctly, you have 2wd in both 2wd position and 4lo position? and 4wd in 4FT only? Im new to the 242 case myself(just swapped in) but as i understand it, there are no couplers or clutches in this transfercase. Everything should be hard parts(even the 4PT position is using hard parts similar to a open axle diff), this means if should not be "slipping" in any gear position( the Quadradrive wj's have clutches in the diffs and transfer case which theoretically might slip if low on fluid or they are damaged) If these transfer cases are only hard parts inside, then the only way you get 2wd in 4lo is if there is major internal damage, OR the shift linkage inside or out of the case is not moving the components around as they should to change positions. Then the shifter would be showing a position you're not really achieving internally. Sorry for the ramble.. its going to be interesting to see how this one plays out. For now, do the simple easy things first. Is the fluid full and clean? Are there any signs of leaks? Does everything visually look like its in place and functioning as it should underneath the jeep? U-joints ok? Drivelines tight and straight?

'00LMTD-4.7l,242hd,D30,D44A,3.73's,True-trac front,Spartan rear,3"BBfront,2"BBrear,JK'sW/32's
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post #3 of 10 Old 01-22-2020, 08:33 PM
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I did a little tinkering with mine today as i thought about this situation. How do you know the 4wFT and the 4LO stop working? When we want to see if our 4WD works, most of us look for a patch of snow or ice, and we stop the Jeep, and put it in 4WD, and then try to take off quickly to see if they all spin together. Is this the test you are doing on your snow covered gravel roads? Or have you found a slick hillclimb that you find you cant get up because the frontend simply stops working?

'00LMTD-4.7l,242hd,D30,D44A,3.73's,True-trac front,Spartan rear,3"BBfront,2"BBrear,JK'sW/32's
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post #4 of 10 Old 01-22-2020, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
MN Ben
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrigr View Post
I did a little tinkering with mine today as i thought about this situation. How do you know the 4wFT and the 4LO stop working? When we want to see if our 4WD works, most of us look for a patch of snow or ice, and we stop the Jeep, and put it in 4WD, and then try to take off quickly to see if they all spin together. Is this the test you are doing on your snow covered gravel roads? Or have you found a slick hillclimb that you find you cant get up because the frontend simply stops working?
The patch of snow thing, all of our gravel roads are covered at the moment.
I went out again today and tried it. Forward, reverse, over and over. It really seams, watching the tires, there is a hell of a lot more 4x4 going in reverse than forward.
When trying it in forward, it sounds like it kicks out of 4x4, with maybe a small clunk. then only the rears spin.
I was thinking next I will try the circle turn on tar to see how they all grab. Maybe tomorrow.
Thanks for thinking of this.
MN Ben

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post #5 of 10 Old 01-22-2020, 09:57 PM
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Hmmm, the clunk is bothersome. That would be a good test also, put it into 4x4, and try to turn a circle on dry pavement. That would be pretty obvious. Another thing to consider, most of these jeeps dont really have 4wheel drive, they have 2wd. One wheel on the front, and one wheel on the back. This is because of a differential located inside the pumpkin that allows the two wheels on one axle to "disconnect" from each other in a turn. (There's a bunch of math and science involved to explain this- i wont bore you with it unless your interested) This is called an "open" differential, and the negative way the differentials act when they are "open" is to disconnect at the wrong time. Mostly when slipping on snow or ice. when you have open differentials, it can be a little confusing when the traction at the axles(front or rear or both) switches between the left and right side wheels as the wheels gain and loose traction. When one wheel starts to slip, all forward motion will stop in that axle. If this happens at one front tire, and one rear tire at the same time, ALL forward motion will stop, as the two wheels just sit and spin. You are now stuck. ha ha. I do not know of any LIMITED SLIP, or Traction-locking differentials(these limit or eliminate that disconnect effect) that come with your Select-Trac equipped Jeep. Is it possible that you are seeing/feeling the open diffs loosing traction as the wheels spin and the loss of momentum that comes with it? Just a thought...

'00LMTD-4.7l,242hd,D30,D44A,3.73's,True-trac front,Spartan rear,3"BBfront,2"BBrear,JK'sW/32's
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post #6 of 10 Old 01-23-2020, 05:59 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, it could be possible. This has caused me embarrassment attempting to pull a car out of a snowbank and getting nowhere.
I was expecting all 4 wheels to lock in and turn at the same time in 4lo.
Is this were jeepers then install a locker in their front or rear differential? I have heard of electric lockers, and I have also heard some weld their rear diff (I can weld) but I assume there is a down side.
MN Ben

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post #7 of 10 Old 01-23-2020, 01:16 PM
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Your front and read differentials are "open' on the Selec-trac. Even in PT, they are only driving one front and one rear wheel...of an open differential.
QD is what you're looking for to get power going to all 4 wheels. Or as noted, install a locker, preferably up front.

'04 Freedom Edition HO & '04 Overland HO (previous '00 Laredo 4.7)
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-23-2020, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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I did circles in the intersection today. All of the 4x4 shift points seem to work as they should.
It looks as if I should start reading up on lockers. I just don't think I will need it that much, but I will be glad I have it when I do need it.
So, a front locker and not a rear @Double E ? That would be most beneficial?

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post #9 of 10 Old 01-23-2020, 11:56 PM
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The downside to lockers is that when locked, there is no "disconnect' when turning on dry pavement. It will be very hard to drive on the street if you have fulltime lockers front and rear. The Lunchbox lockers(Spartan, Aussie,etc) are the cheapest and easiest lockers (that provide full lockup) to install, and work pretty good in the rear axle only. But they are noisy. They have a fairly loud ratchet like clicking sound as you go around corners, but they lock up completely and provide great traction. I have had one in three different vehicles(XJ jeep, fullsize blazer, and now my WJ) and i dont mind the clicking or the drive-ability( very minimal change on road). But the biggest mistake I made with my XJ, was putting one in the front axle. Because we need to turn the wheels up front, these kind of lockers(or any other NON-selectable locker/Welded diff) are terrible on the street. Welded diffs are awesome for traction, and if your jeep never saw pavement again, it would be an option. But if you hope to drive it on the street, a welded diff is a real no-no. You NEED the ability to disconnect the diff around corners on dry pavement, that's why Jeep installed open diffs in your jeep to begin with. Here are your options as i see it. Best option=selectable lockers front and rear(e-locker, ARB,OX-locker, etc). These lockers give the ability to unlock them manually while on road, and still lock all 4 wheels together while off road. Only downside is the cost upfront, and the labor and cost to install them. They arent very DIY friendly if you dont have axle innards experience. If this isnt an option, then the next best thing is a limited slip in the front and lunchbox in rear(i have this now in myWJ) Limited slips are a different type if diff that is kind of the middle of the road between open diffs and fully locked diffs. It provides much better traction off road, but still "slip" enough to be able to drive them on the street. The quadradrive versions of our jeeps have limited slips installed from the factory front and rear called Vari-locks. These are quite good diffs, but they are a little high maintenance, and require regular fluid changes(some say every 20k miles) with expensive fluid and additives. The cheapest way to get great true 4X4 like traction would be to find these axles in a junkyard and swap them into your jeep. They should be a direct bolt up. They sell in the JY around me for around 100-150 bucks each complete.

'00LMTD-4.7l,242hd,D30,D44A,3.73's,True-trac front,Spartan rear,3"BBfront,2"BBrear,JK'sW/32's
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post #10 of 10 Old 01-24-2020, 09:30 AM
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For the "which axle" question...if just doing one, with more weight up front, you'd also want the available traction there. It becomes more usable with more weight.

As bigriger indicates, the easiest path to go is swapping to QD axles front and rear. They're capable and durable. Just swap fluid in them as per OEM intervals.

'04 Freedom Edition HO & '04 Overland HO (previous '00 Laredo 4.7)
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