quradra drive differentials not locking - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 08-31-2019, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
northernpride
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quradra drive differentials not locking

hey everyone,

I noticed today that my axles are not locking....My WJ is in good shape and last year I changed both the front and rear differential fluids with mopar synthetic and a bottle of friction modifier in each. I drove mostly on-road but noticed today when wheeling that my diffs were not locking. I'm wondering if one bottle of friction modifier per differential was to much or if my lockings plates are shot.

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post #2 of 9 Old 08-31-2019, 11:21 PM
2017jgc
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Don't know how much friction modifier you put in but "a bottle" in each sounds excessive depending on the bottle size.

Specs call for .015 pint in front axle and 2.5oz in rear axle. Not sure how much .015 pt is for front but I was able to measure out 2.5oz for rear. Since I tow with my WJ it said to use 75w140 lube in both axles.
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post #3 of 9 Old 08-31-2019, 11:31 PM
2017jgc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2017jgc View Post
Don't know how much friction modifier you put in but "a bottle" in each sounds excessive depending on the bottle size.

Specs call for .015 pint in front axle and 2.5oz in rear axle. Not sure how much .015 pt is for front but I was able to measure out 2.5oz for rear. Since I tow with my WJ it said to use 75w140 lube in both axles.
FRONT AXLE
Model 186 FBI 1.18L (2.5 pts.)
* When equipped with Vari-Lok, include 0.07L (0.15
pts.) of Friction Modifier.
REAR AXLE
Model 194 RBI 1.66L (3.5 pts.)*
Model 226 RBA 2.24L (4.75 pts.)**
* When equipped with Trac-lok, include 2.5 ounces of
Friction Modifier.
** When equipped with Trac-lok or Vari-Lok, include
2.5 ounces of Friction Modifier.

FRONT AXLE
The lubricant should have MIL-L-2105C and
API GL 5 quality specifications.
Lubricant is SAE 75W-140 SYNTHETIC gear
lubricant.
REAR AXLE
The lubricant should have MIL-L-2105C and
API GL 5 quality specifications.
Lubricant is a thermally stable SAE 80W-90
gear lubricant.
Lubricant for axles intended for heavy-duty or
trailer tow use is SAE 75W-140 SYNTHETIC gear

Transfer case(s)
DESCRIPTION - TRANSFER CASE - NV242
Recommended lubricant for the NV242 transfer
case is Mopart ATF +4, type 9602 Automatic Transmission
Fluid.
DESCRIPTION - TRANSFER CASE - NV247
Mopar Transfer Case Lubricant (P/N 05016796) is
the only lubricant recommended for the NV247
transfer case.
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post #4 of 9 Old 09-01-2019, 12:47 AM
Uniblurb
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Is your front axle still groaning like it was 2-1/2 months ago?

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310.../#post40650049

If you're using the whole small 4oz bottles of Mopar friction modifier you likely have about 1.5 oz too much in the front D30 axle which takes 2.5 oz.

My 04 4.7 has the front D30 and rear D44a vari-lok axles with quadra-drive. Whether it's the rear D35 or D44a (comes with V8) the rear axle/differential uses 4oz of friction modifier as can be seen below.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/maintenance_wj.htm

Did you also change out your fluid in your 247 transfer case? It's not forgiving on the fluid you use and need to make sure it's the special Mopar fluid designed for the 247. Good luck.

PS. while they're more pricey when I changed out my 75W-140 full synthetic gear oil in both my differentials this year I used the LubeLocker gaskets. No leaks, can re-use, and no need for RTV.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


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post #5 of 9 Old 09-01-2019, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
northernpride
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I should probly post up some more facts

2004 GC limited V8 with quadra drive 204xxxkm

rear diff changed last year with mopar synthetic 75-140 and a 4oz bottle of mopar friction modifier.

Front diff and transfer case changed in 2017 with synthetic fluid by the local jeep dealer

transfer case locks up but differentials do not.

The front end groan was a sticky brake caliper which has since been replaced.

I'm wondering if I suck 0.5L or so out of each diff and replace it with new gear oil without friction modifier if that would help?
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post #6 of 9 Old 09-01-2019, 01:50 PM
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You could give that a try and see if it works better with less FM. I know in talking to the local dealer mechanics here I asked if they put 2.5 oz FM in the front D30 LS axles? They looked at each other, said they can't keep opened product around, and said since the customer paid for a whole 4oz bottle of Mopar FM they dump the whole bottle in. Nice of them to give you what you paid for but incorrect spec and should be 2.5 oz FM in front axle.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


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post #7 of 9 Old 09-01-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northernpride View Post
............................


I'm wondering if I suck 0.5L or so out of each diff and replace it with new gear oil without friction modifier if that would help?

Editorial Comments:


  1. Vari-Lok axles do not actually lock the left and right axle shafts together. Instead, the left and right shafts connect to each other through a clutch pack. The pressure exerted on the clutch pack determines the strength of the connection of the two axle shafts. A gerotor pump supplies the pressure for the clutch pack.
  2. The gerotor pump operates whenever there is a difference in the rotation speeds of the two axle shafts. The greater the rotational speed differences, then the greater the pump pressure. This means the the two shafts cannot lock together so that they turn at the same speed, because if that happened, the clutch pack pressure drops to zero.
  3. One tire slipping due to lack of traction and/or driving in a curve is necessary in order create a rotational speed difference in the axle shafts needed activate the Vari-Lok system in an axle.
  4. Friction modifier (FM) is added to the differential lube so that slippage in the clutch pack occurs easily at the low wheel rotation speed differences produced by ordinary driving when turning the steering wheel. However, when one wheel loses traction in slippery driving conditions, it is counter productive for the FM to prevent a strong connection to the other wheel on the axle that might have good traction. In other words, excessive FM defeats the purpose of the Vari-Lok system.
  5. Too much FM does not cause damage to the Vari-Lok differentials, and if you never get into a situation where you need them to work properly, you won't notice it.
  6. As time has passed, getting the correct amount of FM into these 15- to 20-year old Vari-Lok differentials has gotten difficult. One difficulty is caused by fact that now most of the synthetic gear lube producers have already added FM to the lubes. How much and what type is usually a mystery. If the label says it can be used in limited slip differentials, then it has FM in it.
  7. In my opinion, Jeep dealership shops do not require technicians to have very much knowledge about Jeeps more than a few years old. So, now it seems that if they actually know that FM is required, then a 4-oz (120 ml) is the correct amount in each differential. I haven't looked at the label on a bottle of Mopar synthetic gear lube it see if it contains FM already. At any rate, the tendency is to use too much FM because a customer is not likely to complain, but if too little is used it would be noticed
  8. Post #3 above give the correct amount of FM for each differential. Converting to metric, the correct amount for rear is 2.5 oz = 85 ml = 0.085 l


Finally getting to an answer to your question. There is a strong possibility that it would work if you replace the 0.5L lube removed with a synthetic that contains no FM already. You may have to shop around to find a brand that does not say it works in LS differentials. You will need to drive for a while (maybe a few days) in order to get the diluted lube worked into the clutch packs. Driving in tight figure eights in a parking lot for a while can speed up the process. If there is not enough FM then tight turns will create clutch chatter, will feel and sound like a tire is rubbing on something.
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post #8 of 9 Old 09-01-2019, 07:00 PM
Uniblurb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rm2001wj View Post
Editorial Comments:


  1. Vari-Lok axles do not actually lock the left and right axle shafts together. Instead, the left and right shafts connect to each other through a clutch pack. The pressure exerted on the clutch pack determines the strength of the connection of the two axle shafts. A gerotor pump supplies the pressure for the clutch pack.
  2. The gerotor pump operates whenever there is a difference in the rotation speeds of the two axle shafts. The greater the rotational speed differences, then the greater the pump pressure. This means the the two shafts cannot lock together so that they turn at the same speed, because if that happened, the clutch pack pressure drops to zero.
  3. One tire slipping due to lack of traction and/or driving in a curve is necessary in order create a rotational speed difference in the axle shafts needed activate the Vari-Lok system in an axle.
  4. Friction modifier (FM) is added to the differential lube so that slippage in the clutch pack occurs easily at the low wheel rotation speed differences produced by ordinary driving when turning the steering wheel. However, when one wheel loses traction in slippery driving conditions, it is counter productive for the FM to prevent a strong connection to the other wheel on the axle that might have good traction. In other words, excessive FM defeats the purpose of the Vari-Lok system.
  5. Too much FM does not cause damage to the Vari-Lok differentials, and if you never get into a situation where you need them to work properly, you won't notice it.
  6. As time has passed, getting the correct amount of FM into these 15- to 20-year old Vari-Lok differentials has gotten difficult. One difficulty is caused by fact that now most of the synthetic gear lube producers have already added FM to the lubes. How much and what type is usually a mystery. If the label says it can be used in limited slip differentials, then it has FM in it.
  7. In my opinion, Jeep dealership shops do not require technicians to have very much knowledge about Jeeps more than a few years old. So, now it seems that if they actually know that FM is required, then a 4-oz (120 ml) is the correct amount in each differential. I haven't looked at the label on a bottle of Mopar synthetic gear lube it see if it contains FM already. At any rate, the tendency is to use too much FM because a customer is not likely to complain, but if too little is used it would be noticed
  8. Post #3 above give the correct amount of FM for each differential. Converting to metric, the correct amount for rear is 2.5 oz = 85 ml = 0.085 l


Finally getting to an answer to your question. There is a strong possibility that it would work if you replace the 0.5L lube removed with a synthetic that contains no FM already. You may have to shop around to find a brand that does not say it works in LS differentials. You will need to drive for a while (maybe a few days) in order to get the diluted lube worked into the clutch packs. Driving in tight figure eights in a parking lot for a while can speed up the process. If there is not enough FM then tight turns will create clutch chatter, will feel and sound like a tire is rubbing on something.
Some good reasoning and you may want to look at a couple screen shots of FSM info I posted in another thread. I still think the FSM has errors or discrepancies in it and found the same for other Jeep models.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310.../#post40726529

I'll have to disagree with you that the correct spec for the rear axle is not 2.5 oz of friction modifier but 4 oz. When using the Mopar 75W-140 synthetic gear lube (spec MS-8985) it has no friction modifier already in it and the reason specs call for FM needs to be added.

The front D30 axle capacity is 2.5 pts or 40 oz. The rear 44a axle capacity is 4.75 pts or 76 oz. This is just 4 oz shy of being twice the amount of gear oil in the D44a vs D30. If you added just 2.5 oz of FM to the rear axle likely you're going to have some noise/chatter if you're using synthetic gear oil with no FM already in it.

I still believe the below info from wjjeeps is correct where it's 2.5 oz FM for the front D30 vari-lok axle and 4 oz FM for the rear vari-lok axle. And this is with the Mopar 75W-140 synthetic gear oil w/o FM already in it.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/maintenance_wj.htm

I'll agree the dealer mechanics aren't very well trained and you can bet they aren't too careful to drain the whole 4 oz bottle of FM into the front axle.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


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post #9 of 9 Old 09-01-2019, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
northernpride
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I'm going to try removing 0.5L of lube from each differential and replace it with the bottle of mopar synthetic I have left over. The mopar stuff does not have any friction modifier in it.
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