Oh the joys of DW - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 44 Old 07-02-2019, 08:45 AM
Jeeples
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I still think you have too much caster, but if you're not doing your own alignments I can see being hesitant to take it back and pay for more adjustments.


His: '00 WJ 4.7 Limited- Some stuff

Hers: '03 WJ 4.7 Laredo- Some more stuff


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This is easily the worst post, and thread, I have ever seen in 7 years of being on JF.
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post #17 of 44 Old 07-02-2019, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Nah I can DIY. The caster backing off is my next step just trying to gather as many minds on the subject.

Others have thought maybe the bend in the JKS track bar is casing flex and releasing (doubtful in my mind since so many run it), that the JKS bar because its not parallel with the drag link is causing issues (to me with a lift its no different than stock angle since the spindle is dropping the same with the track bar and drag link).

I just cant fathom how everything new and nothing lose how I can have DW with MORE caster is all when it seems many have cured DW by adding more.

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #18 of 44 Old 07-02-2019, 02:22 PM
Mofugly13
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I know Im beating a dead horse here, but I firmly believe that a twin tube stabilizer is not right in a horizontal application. If you read about the construction of monotube vs. twin tube shock absorbers, you will see that a twin tube is meant to be used only in a vertical orientation.

Now, why do Sooooooo many companies including the major manufacturers offer twin tube steering stabilizers if they are not supposed to be used horizontally?

I have no idea. But the gas and oil are not separate in a twin tube shock, and if its used vertically, gravity keeps them separate, but horizontally, the piston will mix the gas and oil, causing dead spots.

Can you make your death wobble happen right away when you first start driving, or are you DW free for the first 7-10 minutes? My experience was the latter. I believe that the twin tube stabilizer behaves as it should, until a certain amount of steering is done which causes cavitation of the gas and oil, creating dead spots, and hen the slightest bump kicks off the DW.

This is all strictly my opinion based on zero scientific research...just a lot of DW experiences and pondering for hours WTF. So its worth exactly what you paid for it....

I first fixed the DW with Rustys Off-road monotube stabilizer for the WJ. But it turns out that the stroke is 1 shorter than required and the stabilizer then behaves as your steering stops at not ends, which blows out the seal, leaks oil, causes a dead spot, then you get DW again.....

So I found a Bilstein monotube stabilizer that fits the application for minimum and maximum length. Its for an 08 and up Jeep JK I believe. Anyway, Bilstein p/n 24-158428. $69.68 on Amazon. Ive put almost 1000 miles on since installing it, doing freeway speeds and hitting bumps and potholes that would have set off DW in a heartbeat, and zero problems. Knock on wood....






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post #19 of 44 Old 07-02-2019, 08:19 PM
97Mule
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@JMZ101586 , I have a few questions. First, What size tires on the stock 16's and what size tires on the stock jk 17s


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post #20 of 44 Old 07-03-2019, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofugly13 View Post
I know Im beating a dead horse here, but I firmly believe that a twin tube stabilizer is not right in a horizontal application. If you read about the construction of monotube vs. twin tube shock absorbers, you will see that a twin tube is meant to be used only in a vertical orientation.

Now, why do Sooooooo many companies including the major manufacturers offer twin tube steering stabilizers if they are not supposed to be used horizontally?

I have no idea. But the gas and oil are not separate in a twin tube shock, and if its used vertically, gravity keeps them separate, but horizontally, the piston will mix the gas and oil, causing dead spots.

Can you make your death wobble happen right away when you first start driving, or are you DW free for the first 7-10 minutes? My experience was the latter. I believe that the twin tube stabilizer behaves as it should, until a certain amount of steering is done which causes cavitation of the gas and oil, creating dead spots, and hen the slightest bump kicks off the DW.

This is all strictly my opinion based on zero scientific research...just a lot of DW experiences and pondering for hours WTF. So its worth exactly what you paid for it....

I first fixed the DW with Rustys Off-road monotube stabilizer for the WJ. But it turns out that the stroke is 1 shorter than required and the stabilizer then behaves as your steering stops at not ends, which blows out the seal, leaks oil, causes a dead spot, then you get DW again.....

So I found a Bilstein monotube stabilizer that fits the application for minimum and maximum length. Its for an 08 and up Jeep JK I believe. Anyway, Bilstein p/n 24-158428. $69.68 on Amazon. Ive put almost 1000 miles on since installing it, doing freeway speeds and hitting bumps and potholes that would have set off DW in a heartbeat, and zero problems. Knock on wood....






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mofugly

Im willing to try anything TBH. I will say this though I swear its happened within the 1st few minutes before but I haven't been close enough to a pot hole to try since it was at 4WD.

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #21 of 44 Old 07-03-2019, 07:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Mule View Post
@JMZ101586 , I have a few questions. First, What size tires on the stock 16's and what size tires on the stock jk 17s
Mule

Appreciate any help

The WJ 16s are 245/70r16 Cooper AT3S, been on for a few years and usually my daily driver tire set.

The JK are 5 star 17s with 265/65r17 BF Goodrich ATs, practically brand new. I usually only use them for taking to Bantam Jeep and Wheeling adventures.

DW has happened with both sets. Neither set has a bent rim or a visible wobble on a balancer.

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #22 of 44 Old 07-03-2019, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Also and maybe its placebo but I swear I get DW less if I have it in 4WD Full Time (Its a 04 4.7 that Ive swapped a 242HD in). I still get DW but it doesn't occur nearly as much. Maybe the added torque on the front axle helps somewhat?

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #23 of 44 Old 07-03-2019, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofugly13 View Post
I know Im beating a dead horse here, but I firmly believe that a twin tube stabilizer is not right in a horizontal application. .....

So I found a Bilstein monotube stabilizer ....Bilstein p/n 24-158428. $69.68 on Amazon.
$52 shipped on Ebay. Be here Tuesday. Thanks for doing the homework on this one...

2002 Overland
Previously: 3 XJs & 2 Diesel KJs
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post #24 of 44 Old 07-03-2019, 10:46 PM
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Well I hope it helps. I'll feel like an *** if it doesnt do the trick

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post #25 of 44 Old 07-03-2019, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMZ101586 View Post
Mule

Appreciate any help

The WJ 16s are 245/70r16 Cooper AT3S, been on for a few years and usually my daily driver tire set.

The JK are 5 star 17s with 265/65r17 BF Goodrich ATs, practically brand new. I usually only use them for taking to Bantam Jeep and Wheeling adventures.

DW has happened with both sets. Neither set has a bent rim or a visible wobble on a balancer.
Lower the caster to 4* and run about 28psi in the tires and try that on the same section of road.
What brand shocks do u have...Are they stiff , firm or soft?
The moog trailboss SS is what i have. I have a rustys long arm lift that came with the SS and there standard shocks. The stroke wasn't long enough on the SS.... I chunked it! I rode on the rustys shocks for 6mos and got tired of the stiff ride so i got bilsteins.... best mod so far, as in nite and day.


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post #26 of 44 Old 07-03-2019, 11:01 PM
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I would also like to add that i havent had DW in mine. I run 2.9* caster and 28psi in the tires. When i swapped the 44 in the front last yr i ran without a ss for 1 or 2 mos... I couldn't tell it wasnt there.


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post #27 of 44 Old 07-04-2019, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mofugly13 View Post
Well I hope it helps. I'll feel like an *** if it doesnt do the trick
Well, it's only 52 bucks...which is cheap. So you can at least feel like a cheap ***, if it doesn't do the trick.

About half the cost of the MOOG "heavy duty" stablilizer I purchased at my local Auto Slut. Which is painted white & has a bright blue boot. Doesn't match my pretty silver Bilstein shocks (thx @Kolak )...and allowed me to get DW at 85mph on the freeway. So I'm thinkin it's not really doing its job.

Actually the DW went away after installing the K7525 track bar bushings, but I still don't like the way it goes down the road. Bilstein SS will probably be an improvement.

2002 Overland
Previously: 3 XJs & 2 Diesel KJs
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post #28 of 44 Old 07-05-2019, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Mule View Post
Lower the caster to 4* and run about 28psi in the tires and try that on the same section of road.
What brand shocks do u have...Are they stiff , firm or soft?
The moog trailboss SS is what i have. I have a rustys long arm lift that came with the SS and there standard shocks. The stroke wasn't long enough on the SS.... I chunked it! I rode on the rustys shocks for 6mos and got tired of the stiff ride so i got bilsteins.... best mod so far, as in nite and day.
Mule

Running bilstein 5100 shocks. The fronts are brand new with the axle, they were leaking and I warranted them as well.

Caster adjustment is the next step just trying to get the time to get on it.

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #29 of 44 Old 07-05-2019, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakken View Post
Well, it's only 52 bucks...which is cheap. So you can at least feel like a cheap ***, if it doesn't do the trick.



About half the cost of the MOOG "heavy duty" stablilizer I purchased at my local Auto Slut. Which is painted white & has a bright blue boot. Doesn't match my pretty silver Bilstein shocks (thx @Kolak )...and allowed me to get DW at 85mph on the freeway. So I'm thinkin it's not really doing its job.



Actually the DW went away after installing the K7525 track bar bushings, but I still don't like the way it goes down the road. Bilstein SS will probably be an improvement.
It comes with no hardware. I just reused the hardware from my Rustys stabilizer. You should be able to reuse your Moog stabilizer hardware.

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post #30 of 44 Old 07-11-2019, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakken View Post
Well, it's only 52 bucks...which is cheap. So you can at least feel like a cheap ***, if it doesn't do the trick.

About half the cost of the MOOG "heavy duty" stablilizer I purchased at my local Auto Slut. Which is painted white & has a bright blue boot. Doesn't match my pretty silver Bilstein shocks (thx @Kolak )...and allowed me to get DW at 85mph on the freeway. So I'm thinkin it's not really doing its job.

Actually the DW went away after installing the K7525 track bar bushings, but I still don't like the way it goes down the road. Bilstein SS will probably be an improvement.
K7525 doesnt come up?

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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