Oh the joys of DW - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 42 Old 06-17-2019, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Oh the joys of DW

Hoping for some DW help
04 WJ 3" IRO spring lift. IRO rubber adjustable control arms up front. JKS track bar.

All new Moog wheel bearings, Spicer Balljoints, JKS Track bar has KOR bushing on one side IRO rod joint on the body side both drilled out using 9/16s bolts. Moog upper control arm bushings on both axle and arm. Lower control arms shows zero issues so I left them alone.

Steering box and moog TREs and bars maybe 8 months old, zero play, still so tight the bar doesn't even rotate back and forth yet.

Everything is tight, I had it verified and looked over my myself, my friend who owns a shop and 4WD as well. The only thing we notice is a clunk inside the box that I swear was there on my original box, the 1st replacement box (which was leaking from the pitman arm) and replaced again (so Im on the 3rd box, all of which I recall having this same clunk felt in the pitman arm shaft).

Happens on both my stock 16" wheels running Cooper AT3s and 17" JK take offs with BF Goody ATs.


Alignment done, everything within spec except I did push caster out to 8degrees to try and help, same issue.
Only happens at 55+ MPH when hitting a rut in the road.
Any help would be appreciated.


Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #2 of 42 Old 06-17-2019, 11:37 AM
Mofugly13
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When did it start? Did you happen to use an IRO Heavy Duty steering stabilizer?


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post #3 of 42 Old 06-17-2019, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Long story short I had dw twice a few years ago, replacing the bushings with KOR helped the 1st time, they shrunk replaced with Moogs and 13mm bolts and never had it again.

Last year for inspection my rockers were **** so I took the jeep down cut the rockers out welded in tube steel and while it was down I swapped in a Variloc front axle for wheeling. With this axle I replaced everything that bolted to it, the ball joints, the upper control arm bushings, the wheel bearings. Put it all back together and on its maiden voyage I got death wobble. Figured no big deal it needs aligned. Had it done. Still got DW. Checked everything over noticed a little play in the track bar bushings not a lot but I saw nothing else wrong so I went to 9/16 bolts both ends and KOR bushings. Still DW with again just slightly play on the body side bushing and noticed on the lift with the axle drooped the upper control arm body bushings didn't look great. Bought the IRO rod joint drilled it out for 9/16s dropped it in and replaced the bushings on the upper control arms with Moog. Tightened everything under load. Now there is maybe 1mm of play in the track bar and I STILL have DW.

That's when I asked my friend look who does nothing but fabrication work owns his own garage owns an XJ and nothing we can see... So we figure lets try a specialty shop. Took it to 4WD. They too notice the slight pop in the box and say they cant be 100% sure what the issue but suggest replacing the TREs and box as that's their best guess. Now I have the parts all warrantied and will replace them but I really feel Im wasting my time on their "guess" as there was no failure in the part, it was just the guess.

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #4 of 42 Old 06-18-2019, 06:12 PM
leadsled jeep
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When I got DW after replacing all non control arm items (incl track bar) I realized the arms where last and needed. I chose to avoid the crap rubber oval garbage bushings and bought aftermarket arms with real joints- poly and Johnny joints etc.

Arms and axle bushings kinda suck but.... it’s a Jeep. What do we expect?

'02 Overland ~217k miles. OEM Engine/ Tranny. 2.5" Springs, All new control arms and Addco Sways.
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post #5 of 42 Old 06-25-2019, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Well guys any other thoughts. Like I said I had 3 separate shops/individuals other than myself check it out. Their best guess is my high caster (8 degrees) but I was under the impression the MORE caster the better/ less prone to DW.

Nothing is broken, lose or damaged that anyone can see.

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #6 of 42 Old 06-25-2019, 10:36 AM
Jeeples
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Back that caster off...too much is a bad thing too. Shoot for 5.5* and see what you get.

The clunk may not be in the gearbox, the u-joint in the steering column could be wearing and causing the clunk, however I doubt that will have anything to do with your DW.

Doesn't seem to be tire related, unless there's an issue with both sets, but if you haven't had at least one set balanced recently that's not a bad place to start either.

The sudden onset, to me at least, would have me suspecting something is worn. In my experience with WJ's I have yet to really identify a failed ball joint via regular diagnostic methods. I usually tear that suspect side apart and inspect, the reason being that the upper ball joint is designed to slide vertically in the housing and rotate on it's axis vs. offering the misalignment of a traditional ball joint, such as the lower.

His: '00 WJ 4.7 Limited- Some stuff

Hers: '03 WJ 4.7 Laredo- Some more stuff


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Originally Posted by Jeeples
This is easily the worst post, and thread, I have ever seen in 7 years of being on JF.
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post #7 of 42 Old 06-25-2019, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Jeeples thanks for the response.

The ball joints honestly have MAYBE 500 miles with my trip to OBX and back unless I got a bad part and everyone missed it in the check.

The TREs and Box are the "oldest" parts are under warranty so Im just going to warranty them out replace them tonight and send it back to 4WD for a full alignment (control arms and all).

So you would tend to lean the most probable issue is in fact too much caster?

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #8 of 42 Old 06-25-2019, 01:13 PM
Jeeples
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMZ101586 View Post
Jeeples thanks for the response.

The ball joints honestly have MAYBE 500 miles with my trip to OBX and back unless I got a bad part and everyone missed it in the check.

The TREs and Box are the "oldest" parts are under warranty so Im just going to warranty them out replace them tonight and send it back to 4WD for a full alignment (control arms and all).

So you would tend to lean the most probable issue is in fact too much caster?

Ah, gotcha, yeah I'd be pretty comfortable in assuming the ball joints are still good.


If you dig deep elsewhere on the internet about DW there's a mountain of information and theories behind the cause. Moreover if you start digging into basic suspension/steering geometry and functions you'll start to see where some of the really solid (and not so solid) theories behind DW come from.


Lots of info references the importance of caster and toe, which is the direction I have now taken when attempting to diagnose DW (assuming the suspension is in good working order).


Just note that when you change caster you will also change toe slightly, which is one of the reasons why setting toe is the last step in an alignment. Just be sure that the shop doing your alignment isn't just adjusting caster and calling it good.

His: '00 WJ 4.7 Limited- Some stuff

Hers: '03 WJ 4.7 Laredo- Some more stuff


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Originally Posted by Jeeples
This is easily the worst post, and thread, I have ever seen in 7 years of being on JF.
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post #9 of 42 Old 06-25-2019, 02:49 PM
BilletHorse
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Replace the lower control arms. Once everything else is tight (track bar, steering stabilzer, etc.) and it still DW's, almost always the lower control arms.
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post #10 of 42 Old 07-01-2019, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Ok so update

First off as I said front upper and lower control arms are in fact IRO. Uppers on both sides have new bushings, lowers are original to the IRO arms

I replaced all the TREs and box on Thursday and had it towed to 4WD and after alignment got death wobble twice today on the way to work....

Specs are

LF
Camber -0.7
Caster 7.5
Toe .11

RF
Camber -0.7
Caster 7.5
Toe .08

Total Toe .19
Steer Ahead .01

LR
Camber -0.4
Toe 0.05

RR
Camber -0.1
Toe 0.14

Total Toe .20
Thrust Angle -0.04


Called 4WD and Im waiting for a call back to see what they suggest next but now everything is virtually new on this truck and its STILL having DW...

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #11 of 42 Old 07-01-2019, 07:16 AM
Mofugly13
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Monotube steering stabilizer. Are you running the IRO Tenneco steering stabilizer? Itís junk.


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post #12 of 42 Old 07-01-2019, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Nope Moog Trail Boss SSD107

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #13 of 42 Old 07-01-2019, 08:03 AM
Mofugly13
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That looks like the Rough Country stabilizer. Pull the tie rod end of the stabilizer off and cycle it by hand. Ar there any dead spots? Do you hear air bubbles squishing around in there? My IRO tenneco, and another members Rough Country stabilizers had this problem of dead spots. He went with a KOR heavy duty stabilizer and I am using a Bilstein monotube for a 2008 JK. Both us us have been DW free since.

And we were both in your boat. All new everything...multiple alignments....caster angle correction via adjustable CA.....new steering gear box...road force tire balancing....

The stabilizer fixed it.

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post #14 of 42 Old 07-01-2019, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Mofugly

Thanks

I had the steering stabilizer moog on there and like I said then replaced it with the new TREs. The old one had a LITTLE dead spot but the new one was on the money no voids in travel at all...

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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post #15 of 42 Old 07-02-2019, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
JMZ101586
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Any more thoughts?

Stable:
04 WJ Special Edition 4.7
98 Camaro SLP SS with LS2 swap
05 STS4 4.6 Northstar AWD
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