No horn - Clockspring? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 27 Old 08-10-2020, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
Reiver635
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Wj No horn - Clockspring?

Had cause to use the horn today and found I didn't have one.

Swapped the fuse with A/C then the relay (with A/C) and still nothing. No power down to the horns or to the fusebox so it's looking like it may be the clockspring that's gone.

I have no airbag light issues & the cruise control seems to be working fine.

I have always had the issue whereby the indicator shut-off kicks in too early on right turns (i.e.. winding a little bit of lock off cancels it). The left turn indicator seems to work ok.

The steering column adjustment has never worked for me (fortunately it's in the right place) but this may just be a co-incidence.


There are no DTC's showing.

My research indicates this may be the clockspring which involves all the fun involved in removing the steering wheel.

Once the airbag is off, can horn operation be tested? i.e. can 12v be sent down to the horns - just in case it's a broken wire.

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post #2 of 27 Old 08-10-2020, 11:55 AM
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Can you use a test light and wiring diagram?

Let us know - someone can add a wiring dia if you do not have one.

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #3 of 27 Old 08-10-2020, 02:14 PM
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Can you get 12v right to the horn where it is mounted first...just to make sure it's working?
I've never heard of the horn unit failing but I guess of there were critters or nests in there, it could happen.
If I remember right, I'm not sure Pulling the steering wheel is necessary. The airbag module is removed with a couple of (maybe) torx screws from the back. Then the clock spring is accessible.

'04 Freedom Edition HO & '04 Overland HO (previous '00 Laredo 4.7)
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post #4 of 27 Old 08-10-2020, 03:02 PM
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Like Double E says, except while the horn's disconnected, take a wire to it straight from the battery, if it makes any kind of sound that's not your problem.
Horns rarely fail - but they don't like being filled with mud, or immersed AND this is a Jeep we're talking about, even so both of them failing is unlikely. The connections are not so good though, so make sure they are nice & bright & shiny.
The clockspring failed on my '98 XJ a year or so back but only caused the horns not to work. My quick fix (for inspection that year) was to run a wire from the ground terminal on the relay via a flickswitch a finger's stretch from the steering wheel rim to a good ground point.
All that said, the horns are much easier to get at on an XJ - certainly those with no front bumper endcaps, I doubt it'd be so simple to install an aftermarket switch & I wouldn't be so pleased to get rid of the original horn push on my WJ, which is actually the best I've had.

Last edited by UKXJ; 08-10-2020 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Originally missed the fact this related to a WJ
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post #5 of 27 Old 08-10-2020, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Both horns failing at the same time is possible but unlikely. Mine look to be in pretty good nick (I think it's mostly been what you guys call a 'mall crawler'). Nonetheless I'll run a wire from the battery to check.

The off centre indicator cancelling made me think the clockspring might be on the way out but there are no other symptoms (airbag light flashing on & off etc.).

So, once the airbag is disconnected I can check the horn wiring wthout removing the clockspring?

A wiring diagram of the horn circuit would be useful if anybody has one.
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post #6 of 27 Old 08-11-2020, 01:33 PM
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I'm amazed you can comment on the appearance of the horns as they are well tucked away on a WJ but, as I said, it's the terminals you really need to check.

My '98 XJ's clockspring failed but having by-passed the horn switching function it displays no other symptoms (nor ever did). The indicator self-cancelling fault you mention, in my experience, is usually due to the wheel not being perfectly straight, so that might be a red herring - & don't go looking for reasons to replace the 'spring, the price is truly scary.

You don't need to disconnect (or, more properly, disable) the airbag to check the horn circuitry - only if you're going to go near the spring.

Can't help with the wiring diagram I'm afraid, but there's someone on here who can pull them up & post them like rabbits out of a hat - hope he sees this.
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post #7 of 27 Old 08-11-2020, 02:24 PM
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start checking at the relay -
terminals 30 and 86 have 12v?
does 85 go to groound when horn button pressed?
jump 30 to 87 will horn sound?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 04WJ HORN.pdf (87.7 KB, 12 views)

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #8 of 27 Old 08-11-2020, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKXJ View Post
I'm amazed you can comment on the appearance of the horns as they are well tucked away on a WJ but, as I said, it's the terminals you really need to check.

My '98 XJ's clockspring failed but having by-passed the horn switching function it displays no other symptoms (nor ever did). The indicator self-cancelling fault you mention, in my experience, is usually due to the wheel not being perfectly straight, so that might be a red herring - & don't go looking for reasons to replace the 'spring, the price is truly scary.
Truly, the horns are fine. A bit dusty but not corroded or covered in mud. They are shielded by the bumper and the wheel arch liner. Popped one push-pin fastener and pulled the arch liner back for access. Terminals looked pristine - don't think the connections had ever been apart since it rolled out of Graz! Were they in a different place on earlier models?

I know it has been off-road 'cos I've taken it through Keilder Forest twice but mostly I think it's been a bit of a Chelsea Tractor
FYI - Jeepney.com are asking 146.66 for a new Crown clockspring.

I'll take jtec's advice and check those terminals before I start pulling airbags 'n' stuff.
Thanks for all this advice - I feel like I might actually be getting somewhere
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post #9 of 27 Old 08-11-2020, 04:28 PM
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My WJ's an '02 & at least one of the horns is tucked up there (caught a glimpse of it by chance when replacing a good 1/2-doz of those clips that were missing all across the front).

When I went through Keilder it was on a public road, obviously missed a trick there (not like me).

"Chelsea Tractor" bit flighty for Geordieland isn't it?

Always thought Jeepney were a bit dear, even with the club discount, but I'm sure that's about 1/2 the price I was finding for an XJ a couple of years ago - still a lot of pennies though.

Hope you have more luck with jtec's solenoid diagram than I did, try as I might my stupid laptop would only save it - & even then not where I wanted it. Hope the solenoid's not as difficult to find (much less access) than on a RHD XJ & as for identifying the terminals - forget it!
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post #10 of 27 Old 08-12-2020, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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Both horns are on the same bracket.


I can't get the Horn pdf link to work.


My GC had a wandering life before it got to God's country. Wigan, Woking, Suffolk & Harrogate.
Last time I did Kielder was with the Jeep Club. Nothing very taxing but it made for a good day out. - Kielder 4x4 Safari - Supporting The Northumberland National Park Mountain Rescue Team.
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post #11 of 27 Old 08-12-2020, 11:14 AM
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I just opened SO it's something your end - I hear the attachments won't open on a phone
Why IDK .... just mentioning

Let me try a snip and see if that helps
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When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #12 of 27 Old 08-12-2020, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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I tried a different browser & that worked. Downloaded for later.
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post #13 of 27 Old 08-12-2020, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiver635 View Post
I tried a different browser & that worked. Downloaded for later.
This forum, like so many sites now, is quite picky about which browsers it likes (winds me up no end 'cos I just think it's wrong that which browser I have to use is is determined by the site I want to visit). To get to that wring diagram I had to save it - & even that wasn't easy - then when I went back to the folder it was in, it opened no problem.

It's usual for these vehicles (& a lot of American cars) to have lots of owners who often live further apart than their annual mileage. I boougt mine, which now lives in Torbay, from a man in Devil's Bridge (near Aberystwyth) - but the last MoT was in Bradford, it was supplied new in Sheffield but had a Leeds registration when I got it (& it's only had 6 owners)

I joined the Jeep Club when it had less than 200 members but never done anything with them - really ought to do summat about that I s'pose.
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post #14 of 27 Old 08-15-2020, 03:36 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, tried Jtec's tests:

terminals 30 and 86 have 12v? Terminal 30 has 12+ volts but T86 appears to have only 2.1 mV ???

does 85 go to groound when horn button pressed? Not sure how you test this (not very knowledgeable when it comes to electrical testing)

jump 30 to 87 will horn sound? No sound.

The low voltage from terminal 86 probably means something but I'm not sure what.
I'll see about getting the horns out for testing (or find some wire to run from the battery) but I think the problem is further 'upstream'.

Most clubs are conducted online these days which is good from a knowledge sharing point of view (I'm impressed that I can get help from the US or Australia almost immediately timezones permitting) but the lack of face-to-face contact is the downside.
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post #15 of 27 Old 08-15-2020, 08:29 AM
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thats not sounding good.

1)Terminals 30 has 12v GOOD
2) 86 only 2,1mv is weird - the relay was OUT when checking- and shoould be 12V so you have to check this out.
3) yes 85 should be a good ground when horn pressed. Clip test light onto battery + then probe 85 press horn the light should illuminate - yes or NO ?
4) jumping 30 to 87 the horn did NOT sound? lets see if the wire (dark Green) or connector at horn has 12v when jumped











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When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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