No crank, no start this morning - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
GmanWJ
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No crank, no start this morning

3-1/2 years ago I had the stealership replace the starter because I was getting intermittent starting issues. This morning I hopped in the WJ to head to work and she failed to turn over. No hints that this was coming, just a flat refusal to even try. Lights and power all came on as usual, CEL lamp illuminated, fuel pump running, but no response from the starter. No click, no nothing.

Checked voltage at the battery: 12.2 V. Checked the fuse: good. Checked the relay: passed. Bumped the gear selector, tried starting in neutral: still nothing.

Got to be the starter, yeah?



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post #2 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 02:28 PM
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I would check for 12v at starter solenoid - small green wire as someone tries to start.

Fuses #8 #14 #31 in PDC> #8 is my suspect.
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post #3 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
I would check for 12v at starter solenoid - small green wire as someone tries to start.

Fuses #8 #14 #31 in PDC> #8 is my suspect.
A great suggestion, and that is my next test: check for voltage at the starter. Will do this evening. I checked fuse #8 and relay #30, but not 14 or 31. Actually replaced #8 because I immediately dropped the fuse and it disappeared somewhere behind the bumper


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post #4 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Forgot to mention: hooked it up to my scanner and found no codes.


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post #5 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 02:59 PM
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31 is not in PDC its in cab junction box .....

http://wjjeeps.com/fuses.htm

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #6 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GmanWJ View Post
3-1/2 years ago I had the stealership replace the starter because I was getting intermittent starting issues. This morning I hopped in the WJ to head to work and she failed to turn over. No hints that this was coming, just a flat refusal to even try. Lights and power all came on as usual, CEL lamp illuminated, fuel pump running, but no response from the starter. No click, no nothing.

Checked voltage at the battery: 12.2 V. Checked the fuse: good. Checked the relay: passed. Bumped the gear selector, tried starting in neutral: still nothing.

Got to be the starter, yeah?


Under those circumstances I turn the key on and apply voltage directly to the solenoid terminal to eliminate starter and solenoid issues.


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post #7 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtec View Post
31 is not in PDC its in cab junction box .....

http://wjjeeps.com/fuses.htm

I was wondering why you wanted me to check the TCM relay ... lol. I did not check that fuse. Thanks, I will look at it.


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post #8 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 06:09 PM
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I'm probably way off base, but every time I've had a no crank issue it's been an iffy battery cable connection - either slightly corroded, slightly loose, or the aftermarket clamp on cable ends were slightly loose. In eleven years of owning it, I bet it's happened at least six times. I would sometimes still have dome lights, dash lights, etc., but apparently there wasn't enough of a connection to provide the minimum cranking amperage.
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post #9 of 36 Old 04-26-2018, 08:43 PM
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Check small excite wire on starter it’s poor design that just slides on , gets loose or a lil corrosion on it no crank issue comes about .


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post #10 of 36 Old 04-28-2018, 06:34 AM
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Something I would try: put truck in parm, and with the key in “Run”, pull relay #30 and jump the two big pins with a decent gauge piece of wire. If it starts, you might have a transmission range sensor issue where the controller does not know it is in park or neutral. If it does not start, check for loose battery cables or broken solenoid wiring connections.
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post #11 of 36 Old 04-28-2018, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the ideas, everyone. You guys are great!
  1. Charged the battery to 12.4V.
  2. Charged 7 year-old spare garage battery to 11.2V (that's all she's got!)
  3. No start. Jumped with spare: no start.
  4. Checked all fuses with a multimeter: 0.0 ohm -- good.
  5. Removed, cleaned and replaced pos and neg batt clamps. Good and tight, there was no corrosion.
  6. Voltage from neg batt terminal to neg batt clamp: 0.0 V -- good.
  7. Voltage from pos batt terminal to pos batt clamp: 0.0 V -- good.
  8. Voltage from neg terminal to pos terminal: 12.4V -- good.
  9. Voltage from neg clamp to pos clamp: 12.4V -- good.
  10. Voltage at solenoid batt terminal: 11.4V -- good.
  11. Voltage at solenoid, key ON: 0.0V -- good.
  12. Voltage at solenoid, key START: 11.8V -- good.
  13. Key RUN, applied 12.4V directly to solenoid terminal using jumper cables: no effect.
  14. Key RUN, applied 11.2V directly to solenoid terminal using jumper cables and spare batt: no effect.

Repeated 6-10 turning key to START and holding: no change to voltage.

I followed all the diagnostic steps in the FSM except the starter motor bench tests. It's got to be the starter. I am going to try to pull it out now.


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post #12 of 36 Old 04-28-2018, 04:24 PM
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attachment
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File Type: pdf WJstart 4.7L.pdf (40.1 KB, 14 views)

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #13 of 36 Old 04-28-2018, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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Can't get the rear bolt out. There's two stinking bolts and I can't get the back one. I think I am going to punt on this one. I need my ride to run. Looks like the local shop is going to make a few bucks off me.

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Originally Posted by jtec View Post
attachment
Thanks for the wiring diagram, looks only a little different from the diagram on page 8W-21-2 of my FSM. Was there a particular component I should look at? Is there something that my earlier diagnostics missed? Seems like I checked all the paths. If one of the circuits had failed, wouldn't that mean I would not get voltage at the starter when I turn the key to START?

I mean, in the wiring diagram, there are two lines that run to the starter: RED from the battery, LT GRN from the relay. That's it. RED is always hot (checked and verified), LT GRN is hot when the starter relay closes (checked and verified). When both are hot, if the starter does not roll, then the solenoid is shot. Both of my lines get hot, but no joy on the starter. I even applied voltage directly to LT GRN, so it has to be the solenoid, right?

Am I wrong? I wish it were just a fuse, I have those and they are easy to change.

Any recommendations on starter? Local Napa sells Bosch reman for ~$180.


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post #14 of 36 Old 04-28-2018, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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Well.

I disconnected the battery ground and loosened the two power leads to the starter and the front mounting bolt when attempting to remove. Just tightened them all back up to give another go at applying voltage to the starter. Hit the key first to check.

Started right up.


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post #15 of 36 Old 04-28-2018, 07:41 PM
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Haha, don’t you hate that?

That sounds like you have either a poor earthing connection, or perhaps a starter that may be corroding inside from exposure to water/salt.

Probably the best suggestion would be to go through all of the connections down there, clean them and reassemble them and see how it performs. If you have doubts, or if it doesn’t work, replace it.


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