my '02 Quadra-drive was towed with 2 wheels on the ground, now she doesn't roll - JeepForum.com
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 09-02-2020, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
WadeWatney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5
Lightbulb my '02 Quadra-drive was towed with 2 wheels on the ground, now she doesn't roll

I have a sad dashcam video of my wheels locking up at 43mph while being dragged by a tow truck, but I'll have to post that at a later date.

Currently, if I put it in DRIVE, turn the wheels full lock, the thing does not want to roll. In fact, it takes a considerable amount of pedal to get it to move. When it moves, it sounds normal; I can't hear any binding.

When driving around town it drives normally, unless I'm making a sharp turn from standstill - then I need to give it extra gas. With the wheels full-lock and in neutral, same thing, doesn't want to roll freely.

Something else strange: When I first started it up, put it in DRIVE, gave it gas, there seemed to be a 5 - 10 second period where nothing was happening, then it drives and shifts normally.

I will not be working on the Jeep until my insurance company gives me the go ahead (seems another week or so), but I've been trying to get the ball rolling on research and things to try. I haven't been having much luck as it seems most of y'all don't let people incorrectly tow your vehicles.

I'm thinking progressive coupler, front/rear diff, perhaps transmission, but I'm not sure what the best way to troubleshoot these items are. I guess remove front driveshaft to rule out front end?

I'm all ears. Thanks.

WadeWatney is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 09-02-2020, 09:31 PM
2oldjeeps
Registered User
2000 XJ Cherokee 
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,830
well theres a procedure for towing, next time...

99wj,143,000 miles
00xj,177,000 miles
10hummer3,74,000 miles
98xj,130,000 miles
2oldjeeps is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 09-02-2020, 09:50 PM
Bigrigr
Registered User
 
Bigrigr's Avatar
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Near SLC
Posts: 1,233
Garage
This makes me curious.... i first pictured the transfer case progressive coupler smoked. Then i got to thinking, what if the progressive coupler caused the transmission to be turning(like it would if you towed it in drive or neutral with the engine off), and it smoked the trans clutches.....What does the fluid in both the trans and transfer look like? If one is now a nasty dark brown or black, i would start there....If they are both nice and pink, then we gotta narrow it down a little more...Gonna need to ponder this a little.


Cant imagine this doing damage to the front diff, but then again....front wheels tied down, transfer case trying to spin the front wheels(again progressive coupler locking up), and front varilok slipping if transfer case succeeds in turning front driveline... Yep better double check the front diff fluid as well. On the other hand, if everything was ok except the front diff, it should still drive well down the road, except the vari-lok just wouldnt lock up. Yep, gonna have to ponder this a little....


Find the tow truck driver and beat him with a sock full of rocks while you ponder this.....you got a little time....

'00LMTD-4.7l,242hd,D30,D44A,3.73's,True-trac front,Spartan rear,4" short arm lift,JK'sW/32's
Bigrigr is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 Old 09-03-2020, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
WadeWatney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5
Yep! I'm hoping some fluids will be able to guide me. Going to be a bit nervous when I get to check the transmission...
WadeWatney is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 09-03-2020, 01:03 PM
Bigrigr
Registered User
 
Bigrigr's Avatar
2000 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Near SLC
Posts: 1,233
Garage
Post your results here, and we will help.

'00LMTD-4.7l,242hd,D30,D44A,3.73's,True-trac front,Spartan rear,4" short arm lift,JK'sW/32's
Bigrigr is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 09-05-2020, 11:47 AM
MuloChico
Registered User
2006 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: MODESTO
Posts: 234
Find the tow truck driver and make him pay for a proper diagnosis and repair. He messed up he needs to make it right otherwise he will never learn.
wildbill23c and Wabatuckian like this.
MuloChico is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 09-05-2020, 06:15 PM
Golden-Arm
Registered User
 
Golden-Arm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: TREASURE COAST
Posts: 155
Garage
i thought this was the other thread, but it's not. another guy posted the same story, beginning of last week, where the same thing happened to him. i'm curious as to how guys let their stuff get flat-towed, and are unaware of the risk?

Uphill Slow, Downhill Fast, Tonnage First, Safety Last!
Golden-Arm is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
WadeWatney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5
Update on things I've done:

Transmission, Front and Rear Differential fluids are all clean and happy.

Transfer Case (NV247) fluid was black death and smelled accordingly. This fluid was clean just a few months ago.

I drained the Transfer Case and threw in some ATF+4 for testing purposes, the problem remained. (I have MOPAR stuff for later)

With the front driveshaft removed, the ol' gal drives perfectly.

The problem also seemed to go away when I was in 4LO, and my understanding of this is it's somehow locking the front and rear together and it's bypassing the (potentially) problematic Progressive Coupler. It could also be that it's just a torque monster in 4LO and it's tricking me.

I'm getting pretty close to ordering some snap & lockring pliers to swap out that PC, maybe also the chain (200,000 miles).

Does anybody have any insight to offer?

Thanks.
WadeWatney is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 01:25 PM
Oktavius
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 512
Sounds like the coupler in the transfer case is at least dead. It is a gerotor pump with clutch packs that normally sends power to the rear axle. As the front and rear axles spin at different speeds, the gerotor generates fluid pressure to apply the clutch packs and lock up the transfer case to transfer power to the front axle. Since the front axle wasn't rotating while the rear was, the transfer case was trying to send power to the front axle which probably smoked your clutch pack.

In 4LO, it doesn't utilize the coupler and is mechanically locked.

The progressive coupler is pretty pricey last I checked, ~$500. It is perfectly fine to drive around without the front driveshaft for the time being. When my 247's coupler was determined to be dead, I ditched the 247 for a 242HD. For a 242HD, would need the matching rear driveshaft and a double cardan front shaft if the WJ doesn't have one already. If you rebuild the 247 with a new coupler, would suggest getting a complete rebuild kit and replace all of the bearings and seals. Most kits don't come with a chain so that would be extra. I could of bought and rebuilt a 242HD for the price of the 247 coupler alone. Ended up do the Tom Woods SYE with their rear driveshaft which added to the price.
Oktavius is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 02:27 PM
Wabatuckian
Registered User
 
Wabatuckian's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wabash
Posts: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuloChico View Post
Find the tow truck driver and make him pay for a proper diagnosis and repair. He messed up he needs to make it right otherwise he will never learn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden-Arm View Post
i thought this was the other thread, but it's not. another guy posted the same story, beginning of last week, where the same thing happened to him. i'm curious as to how guys let their stuff get flat-towed, and are unaware of the risk?
I have the same question. How does one of these get towed on two wheels? The wrecker drivers around here know to look at the shift lever. The one time I had to have mine "towed," I called around and found a flatbed. The tow operator was very glad that I requested one so he didn't have to go back and exchange the regular wrecker for it.

I'm generally against suing mechanics as way too much is blamed on them, but in this case, it's warranted.

Josh
Wabatuckian is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 02:50 PM
norvanner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 15
Why don't you just take it to a garage and have them do the diagnosis and work? It sounds like the tow truck driver should be paying for this anyways...
norvanner is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
WadeWatney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by norvanner View Post
Why don't you just take it to a garage and have them do the diagnosis and work? It sounds like the tow truck driver should be paying for this anyways...
Still waiting for everything to get finalized, but I'll be getting $6,000 for this incident.

I imagine like most around here, I prefer to do the work myself and not pay a stranger who definitely doesn't care about my vehicle, and may or may not even know what they're doing. I'm happy to keep the front DS removed and let her live out her final days as a 4x2, especially for $6k, but if I can pick up a PC from Jegs for $330 shipped and have everything back up and running again over a weekend, that sounds like a pretty decent outcome to me (though replacing the PC and it not fixing the problem doesn't sound all that great).

Thanks for the suggestion, though.
WadeWatney is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 04:30 PM
coldspit47
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Durham
Posts: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by WadeWatney View Post
Still waiting for everything to get finalized, but I'll be getting $6,000 for this incident.

I imagine like most around here, I prefer to do the work myself and not pay a stranger who definitely doesn't care about my vehicle, and may or may not even know what they're doing. I'm happy to keep the front DS removed and let her live out her final days as a 4x2, especially for $6k, but if I can pick up a PC from Jegs for $330 shipped and have everything back up and running again over a weekend, that sounds like a pretty decent outcome to me (though replacing the PC and it not fixing the problem doesn't sound all that great).

Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Has the whole driveline been examined yet, including the transmission like Bigrigr suggested? That $6k might come in handy. If you're already replacing a PC and chain, you honestly might as well get a reman TC. I went through Transfer Case Express in Spartanburg SC (a long day trip from me) and with shipping it was around $1k. They don't even charge you a core unless you fail to return your unit (or return it full of fluid). The downside is if you go that route, you couldn't swap cases unless you eat the core difference ($150, if I remember the paperwork correctly). If it was my rig and someone else's money I'd be going that route for sure. If anything else in the driveline goes bad, you can probably skimp on something but I, for one, would never turn down the chance to get a whole new 4x4 system on someone else's dime.

JEEP. making mechanics out of ordinary folks since 1940.
coldspit47 is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
WadeWatney
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldspit47 View Post
Has the whole driveline been examined yet, including the transmission like Bigrigr suggested?
I did get a $16,476 quote from the dealer. I have zero confidence they did anything other than manufacture a sheet of paper for the $200 (which took 2 weeks).

I drove it all day without the front driveshaft and it drives just like it did before the incident. I guess I'll drive it for a while to build up some confidence in the rest of the drivetrain and go from there.

Bigrigr likes this.
WadeWatney is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 09-16-2020, 07:41 PM
coldspit47
Registered User
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Durham
Posts: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by WadeWatney View Post
I did get a $16,476 quote from the dealer. I have zero confidence they did anything other than manufacture a sheet of paper for the $200 (which took 2 weeks).

I drove it all day without the front driveshaft and it drives just like it did before the incident. I guess I'll drive it for a while to build up some confidence in the rest of the drivetrain and go from there.

I'd run with that as far as I could. If the dealer (who never admits anything is wrong with any vehicle brought in unless you're trading it in or selling) has itemized the differentials as noisy/leaking and the CV boots as cracked and leaking, make sure $6k isn't lowballing you and giving you some low-hanging fruit to make you happy. Good differential work is in the $1k range PER axle, often plus parts ($400/ea for Dana gearsets, $115 dana 35 master install kit, $110 dana 30 master kit) (so $2k labor, $1025 for parts = $3025). Crown CV axles are about $110 apiece, 1.5hr per axle $255 labor (if you're lucky enough to get friends and family discount rate of $85/hr) for a total of $475. Transfer case replacement $1100 plus 3 billed hours to install (again at friends/family rate) = $1255 total. Cardone power steering pump is about $120, plus 3hr labor @ $85/hr for a total of $375. So I'm at over $4900 in repairs pre-tax using lower-end non-OEM parts (except the diff gears) at a super cheap shop rate and the driveshafts/transmission haven't even been addressed. Then add the cost of fresh fluids (2 quarts gear oil @ $10/qt, 2qts of ATF+4 @ $14/qt, 2qts @ $20/qt power steering fluid) and disposal of old fluids...

Seriously, if some guy (or gal) did this to mine and I didn't catch it in time, you'd best believe every single thing I could possibly blame on the tow would be done. Maybe your stuff was failing before that, but it totally failed when it was abused and misused.

JEEP. making mechanics out of ordinary folks since 1940.
coldspit47 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome