Just read a "warning" about oil spec for the 4.7L HO - this has to be BS? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 11 Old 07-01-2020, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
AVR2
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Just read a "warning" about oil spec for the 4.7L HO - this has to be BS?

I'm on a WJ group on Facebook where somebody is insisting that the 4.7L HO *must* use Mopar-branded 10w30 oil or it will cause severe engine damage. They also insist that there is a specific warning about this in the FSM.

Given that this is literally the first time I've ever heard this, and none of the WJ FSMs have such a warning in them - in fact all of them state that 5w30 is the *preferred* oil spec, none of them say anything about oil for the HO specifically, and none of them state that Mopar-branded oil is essential to avoid damage - this has to be 100% pure BS, right?

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post #2 of 11 Old 07-01-2020, 08:07 PM
XJ4oh
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Yeah.. a little alarmist.

A lower cold viscosity number is not going to cause failure. 10w30 is recommended but it won’t care if you use 5w30. They’re the same weight when “hot” at operating temp.

I wouldn’t run a 20w in the engine but that’s not going to just cause it to fall apart either.
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post #3 of 11 Old 07-01-2020, 11:40 PM
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Bookface and misinformation, well who'dda seen that coming, eh?

I am not aware that Chrysler has ever had refining capabilities and it's branded oil products will have been made by petrochem comapnies to a their specification - a standard at the time very similar to Ford, GM, Mercedes, Toyota etc. A reputable brand meeting the Chrysler specific standard will be fine. The 4.7 HO was designed probably 25 years ago and I would imagine that oil research has moved on since then and the standards set in 1995 are far exceeded by most good oils these days. Use a good oil to the specified grade and you'll likely be fine.

An internet forum, like Bookface, is an area of discussion, you'll find good information, bad information and anything in between. I like this forum as mostly good information is forthcoming and there are some very knowledgeable members on here, who I have found to be a great help.
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post #4 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 01:52 AM
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It is true that Chrysler has been making their own requirements like MS-6395 and others (this doesn't just apply to engine oil but other types of fluids as well). These are made up standards, essentially a mix of other more generic standards. In order for other brands to claim they meet these specs, they must be able to proove to Chrysler that these requirements are being met. Many oil brands, at least in the US, will make such claims.

https://jeepoffroadadventures.com/wp/?page_id=801

I wouldn't call it total BS, but overly exagerated and totally put out of context. In reality most descent brands of engine oil will fulfill these requirements whether or not they claim them. Europe has stricter standards for engine oil so I doubt you would run the chance of coming across such products. However, here in the US there has been documented cases of substandard products shamelessly being put on the market. An example was engine oil sold at dollar stores that did not even meet the basic definition of today's engine oil, such as DG SAE-30 which is not suitable for engines built after 1930. I guess you get what you pay for's adage is true.

Regarding viscosity, your Jeep calls for 5W30 or 10W30. I would not recommend using anything less than 30 weight. xW20 oils are designed for very low clearance engines and will probably cook yours. Figures above 30 like 10W40 which is common (or was?) in Europe should be safe.

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post #5 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 02:37 AM
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The local dealers here don't even use "Mopar branded oil" themselves, they use Pennzoil engine oil, so that statement couldn't be true where the 4.7 HO has to use a "Mopar branded oil" or damage will occur.

Correct in that the FSM doesn't differentiate between the 4.7 and 4.7 HO as far engine oils while the HO isn't even mentioned. And the "Preferred" oil viscosity has a lot to do with the temperatures you're operated in. Lots of overlap between 5W30 and 10W30 where both should do well.

If I can I'll try to time my oil changes in my 04 4.7 (non-HO) so I'm running the 5W30 in the cold Winter temps and 10W30 the rest of the time.

Not sure where wjjeeps gathers their information but they recommend 10W30 for the 4.0 & 4.7 HO and 5W30 for the regulator 4.7.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/maint..._wj.htm#ENGOIL


There aren't any TSB's for engine oil standards other than one on oil supplements which they don't recommend. And some additives can change the oil viscosity so it doesn't meet specs anymore.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/tsb_list.htm#ENGINE

Below is the info from the 04 FSM regarding engine oils and viscosity charts based on outside temps.
Attached Thumbnails
04 WJ FSM, Engine Oil viscosity and types, p.0-4, 1130x1371.jpg  
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post #6 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 06:53 AM
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The API certification is what all manufacturers build around.

Some cheap oil does not have that cert, and beware because cheap suppliers have been caught fraudulently using that cert mark. Always buy from a reliable source.

https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil

Some specialty oils do not have API certs, for various reasons (some Royal Purple for example)

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post #7 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 11:35 AM
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lol no. If you look far enough, you can always find somebody from the screaming tinfoil hat brigade insisting that there are inherent design flaws and Chrysler should be held responsible and the engines are garbage that will explode if you put the wrong oil in it and on and on and on ...
I use 5W30 in the winter and 10W30 in the summer, no I do not need to use Mopar brand oil. That said, I still only use Mopar coolant, probably because I do not want to do a complete system flush and coolant swap and I do not want to mix coolant brands. We probably all have a tinfoil hat of one size or another in our back pocket.


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post #8 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 12:08 PM
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ALL car makers have verbiage in the owners manual like "We recommend that you ONLY use "Genuine BlahBlah" fluids and parts". That is to generate more income from overpriced stuff at the dealer parts counter. Using other brands won't make your engine seize. Just put a quality, name-brand oil in it and it will be fine. Besides, 4.7's are far more likely to die from ingesting a valve seat than from poor lubrication.
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post #9 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 02:36 PM
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Some good info. BTW, I meant to mention many of the Jeep/Chrysler dealer service departments around here have an "Express Lane" for "Fast Oil Changes & More". Guess they're trying to compete with 'Jiffy Fast Lube'.

A few years ago I just happened to be driving by the local dealer so stopped in since they had a sign out front reading, "Oil Change & Filter, $19.95". I asked the gal running that 'Express Lane' what brand and viscosity oil was included in that sale price?

She said, "Pennzoil 0W-20 at that low of price". I told her that's not even spec for my 04 4.7 Jeep GC and too thin for the summer heat. She said it should still work and that's what they're using at the sale price for about all Chrysler engines. I told her I wanted the 10W30 Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic oil but of course it was more like $35-$40 for an oil change rather than $20.

While they did OK and installed a new Mopar oil filter that was the first & last time anybody has changed the oil in my 04 4.7 other than me.

I wonder how much service the dealers drum up in installing that real thin 0W-20 oil in an engine where it may blow up in the summer heat? Pathetic when the customer cares a whole lot more than they do and I feel for those customers who may not know any better!

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post #10 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 03:17 PM
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What you can find on WJJEEPS (http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/maint..._wj.htm#ENGOIL) is exactly what you can find in some editions of the 02 use and maintenance manual that came with WJs.

I have it...., it indicates in one chart 10w30 for 4.0 and 4.7 HO engine, and in on other chart 5w30 for the 4.7 "normal"; probably (or probably not...) it was a misprint, in 03 and 04 use and maintenance manual, charts has been changed, 4.0 alone and 4.7 and 4.7 HO together.

Someone (more than someone...) tells that with 10w30 the endemic piston slap ticking disappears; I have never had the possibility to verify this, because in Europe it is practically impossible to find a synthetic 10w30 oil (I found only on 10w30 synthetic oil, brand Petro Canada, but I don't know her at all...)
Actually I run Shell Helix Ultra 5w30, that should be the same oil as Pennzoil.

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post #11 of 11 Old 07-02-2020, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
...

I wonder how much service the dealers drum up in installing that real thin 0W-20 oil in an engine where it may blow up in the summer heat? Pathetic when the customer cares a whole lot more than they do and I feel for those customers who may not know any better!
Actually the requirement is based on engine design. If the clearances are designed for 20 then 30 or 40W will be too thick result in reduced flow which can reduce lubrication and heat dissapation in the bearing journals.

I had a link at one time to the issue with Michigan State Police. They had 2 different engines in their Dodges, one of which called for the 0W-20, and the other had a different spec. They used the same oil in both, but eventually had a lot of valve problems with the misapplication.

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