Help for UK newbie! - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-10-2019, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
Birchy
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Help for UK newbie!

Hi, I'm from the UK and am looking to get into a WJ for some off roading. I'd love your advice on the following please - I've been looking for overland quadra drive cars for sale over here and they're all a bit rough, overpriced and rare. Weirdly I've looked at some cars with Quadra Trac and they have been in better condition and much cheaper. If I bought a Quadra Trac car and put an air locker in the rear and one in the front, I'm thinking id probably have a more capable rig than a stock Quadra drive anyway? Discuss! Also, I'm right in thinking that in 4Lo, a Quadra Trac centre diff is mechanically locked 100%? Thanks everyone! Ben

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post #2 of 19 Old 07-10-2019, 03:23 PM
LuthWJ77
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Most of us over here in the states prefer the select trac 242 over the 247 which is what would come in QT or QD models. The full time 4H mechanism is known to go out and you basically end up with no 4H but yes 4L works as you'd expect and locks it in. I think most would also agree with you having selectable lockers are preferred over the QD axles because you have control over it all. The D35 rear axle is not a good candidate for lockers it's not very strong but if you're not going huge tires and drive with this in mind you should be ok for most situations. Just something to note. The D44 came in V8 models and would be preferred for strength especially if you have to have a locker in it. Tons of good info on here about the WJ spend some time searching topics like this you're interested in you'll find everything you need to know including detailed write ups on how to modify and repair typical WJ related things.
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-10-2019, 07:31 PM
CarlJH
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The diesels 3.1TD and the 2.7CRD also have the dana44 rear axle, if the 247 TC fails you just end up with rear wheel drive in 4H and 4 wheel drive in 4Low from what I've read.
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
Birchy
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Thanks so much guys, much appreciate your input. Yes I'd only go 31" (255/70x17 or 265/70x17) with a 3" IRO long arm, and won't be rock climbing just a fair bit of mud, ruts and slopes. So are we sure the 2.7 few came with 44 rear? Does anyone know the final drive diff ratios of the 2.7 card? I am thinking True Trac front and an Eaton E locker rear would be sweet.
So you say selec Trac is better due to the 242 tc... what years / models was that tc available on in the 2.7crd? And does the 4Lo in selec Trac and Quadra Trac 100% lock out the centre diff with no slip?
Thanks guys - I have a mint 2004 landcruiser Amazon 4.2td currently and the you're already a lot more helpful than the Toyota guys!
Ben
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post #5 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 03:22 PM
LuthWJ77
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I don't think we could get the diesel version in the US so not sure how many of us will know a lot about those. Makes sense they'd have the 44 though to handle the extra torque. I have the d35 in mine 4" IRO and 265/75-16 but open diffs and wheel similarly as you do and it does the job just good to know it's weaknesses so you don't hammer on it too much. The 242 isn't necessarily better but it's 100% selectable so choose 2H, 4H full time, 4H part time, N, and 4LO. The 247 t case that came in the others has basically a limited slip in it so 4Hi is supposed to happen when it senses slip. Problem with it is that the mechanism that makes that magic happens fails which leaves you with only 4LO. 4LO does lock the center diff though.


Our Jeeps break more than Toyotas so we need each other more on here than they do probably
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-11-2019, 07:39 PM
CarlJH
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found this thread about changing the axle ratios on the 2.7CRD
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310...s-now-1259104/
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post #7 of 19 Old 07-12-2019, 01:28 AM
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You are probably aware of this but, make sure you order a track bar for a right hand drive vehicle when you order your lift kit if you get a UK spec WJ.

I have a 3" IRO lifted, petrol Overland, not the long arm though, and it gets similar use to that you describe - green lanes/Salisbury Plain - I really like the ride and Quadradrive. I run 245/70/17 BFG KO2 tyres.
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post #8 of 19 Old 07-12-2019, 09:25 AM
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My 247 engages almost instantly. You can feel that the back wheel slips less than one quarter turn and it engages the front. I have 207k miles on mine now with fresh fluid so it seems to have aged well against wear. It doesn't appear to be rebuilt. I plan to keep the 247 and see how good this case is. Usually everyone swaps to the 242. Here is a video of the open diff 247 in action and it seems to take it very well, its an SE like mine. 247 Quadra-Trac 2 case.


2004 Grand Cherokee Special Edition / Quadra-Trac-2 / Midnight Blue Pearl
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post #9 of 19 Old 07-12-2019, 09:31 AM
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If my 247 would've worked in 4H I would've left it too. He's definitely in 4L in that video so not really a good representation of the 4H part we're talking about on the 247.
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-12-2019, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuthWJ77 View Post
If my 247 would've worked in 4H I would've left it too. He's definitely in 4L in that video so not really a good representation of the 4H part we're talking about on the 247.
Thats true. That was what I wanted to point out. 4 Low is ok as its mechanical, 4 Hi is the question. In all of the videos where I found the 247 in Hi, it either worked well or took too long to engage and they would get stuck. In some situations like sand, or hills, this would be a problem with the 247 case. This video shows the late engagement in sand (WK). Also, ive read that bigger wheels make the 247 engage a little later due to the bigger size.


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post #11 of 19 Old 07-12-2019, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birchy View Post
Thanks so much guys, much appreciate your input. Yes I'd only go 31" (255/70x17 or 265/70x17) with a 3" IRO long arm, and won't be rock climbing just a fair bit of mud, ruts and slopes. So are we sure the 2.7 few came with 44 rear? Does anyone know the final drive diff ratios of the 2.7 card? I am thinking True Trac front and an Eaton E locker rear would be sweet.
So you say selec Trac is better due to the 242 tc... what years / models was that tc available on in the 2.7crd? And does the 4Lo in selec Trac and Quadra Trac 100% lock out the centre diff with no slip?
Thanks guys - I have a mint 2004 landcruiser Amazon 4.2td currently and the you're already a lot more helpful than the Toyota guys!
Ben
I've looked at quite a few for sale, and never seen a UK WJ/WG come as standard with a 242HD tc - only either Quadra-Trac or Quadra-Drive. On the 3.1d, 2.7d & 4.0 QT seems the norm & QD an extra or poss standard with the Overland pack, whereas all 4.7's seem to be QD - don't think we had any spec lower than Limited on the 4.7.

Personally I'd not take the risk with diesel here now - they've been setting it up as the reason for all our problems so expect more tax on the way for derv...

If you're in the home counties and want to haggle on price this one has a 242HD tc conversion already: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-Jeep...M/283529717685
That price is nearly double what I paid for a good stock 4.7, and near what an LPG 4.7 seems to go for - but ready if that's what you want.
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post #12 of 19 Old 07-13-2019, 05:40 AM
CarlJH
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I'd also keep away from the diesels now as Jeep is now part of FIAT so will want to dump any responsibility towards the Daimler era vehicles as soon as they can.
They have already doubled/trebled the cost of parts since they took over.
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-14-2019, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
Birchy
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Thanks again for everyone's input - I REALLY appreciate it and there's a lot of great info here which helps me a lot.

Firstly re: the Diesel worries (tax and parts) we are moving to rural France next year and I will be doing a lot of touring through Europe (with lots of kit in the vehicle). The V8 fuel economy (or lack of it!) just isn't an option I'm afraid.

Secondly re: Selec-trac 242 vs. Quadra Trac 247. I'm not sure the Selec-Trac is available on a WJ in the UK, and if it is, it's very rare??? Tell me I'm wrong. Fzz alludes to this too, and I think he's right.

Re: the Quadra trac. What you're saying is the QT 247 TC can sometimes not work that great as 4WD when in 4WD Full Time. ie. it sometimes doesn't lock very well. But when it is put in 4LO/Part Time it ALWAYS fully locks solid, no slip, no messing? So worst case scenario, is that if my 4WD Full Time is a bit "tired" and doesn't work very well, then I can always 100% get proper 4WD by selecting 4LO/Part Time?

Is there a way of a) checking the Quadra Trac 4Full Time setting is working well whilst on a test drive? and b) is there a way of fixing it if it's tired and not working well?

CarlJH - re: the changing of diff ratios... I'm aware the computers have a bit of a nightmare, but you can fit a CANBUS doo-dah (they are on Ebay), which "tune" the computer to accept and work with a range of different ratios.

Thanks again,

Ben
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-14-2019, 11:47 AM
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I think the problem with changing the diff ratio's was more of a problem with the Merc transmission as all the sensors are internal to the transmission, I also seem to remember reading even putting 32" tyres on them would upset it! a mismatch between the transmission speed sensors and the abs wheel speeds sensors making it think it was slipping.
to test the TC just put the back axle on a slippery surface and see how well the front axle gets you going.
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-15-2019, 07:24 AM
LuthWJ77
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Birchy, my two cents on the select trak vs QD etc is don't let that be a deal breaker. The mechanism in the 247 that fails is replaceable. It's not super cheap and probably would want a professional to do the work but that's an option plus as you mentioned you always have 4LO. To test, I got all 4 off the ground with my 247 to see if it worked and under no load all 4 were turning. Once out on the trail though the fronts would not engage on an icy incline. You'll want to find some ice, mud, sand, or something to see if the fronts kick in. May be hard to do on a test drive so you may just want to include a t case rebuild in your budget just in case.
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