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Be gentle - UK fluids nightmare!

2K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  Fzz 
#1 ·
Hi from the UK!

I have been stalking this forum for ages leading up to the purchase of my first WJ, thanks to everyone for all of the great advice and experience sharing on here it's really helped me get my head straight about buying the car, and choices for modifying.

It is a 2004 4.7 V8 (non HO) Limited with Quadra Drive.

I've pored over the handy online maintenance schedule website (amazing), I've pored over original Mopar Part Numbers, I've called around and gone online to vendors both seemingly kosher and not kosher re..... fluids.

In the UK, the Jeep/Chrysler dealers basically sell nothing. Really! They can get filters and trim but original Mopar fluids? Not a chance. I've been going to and fro with a couple of European Mopar "distributors" on Amazon for the past couple of weeks, but really am not confident in them delivering me the correct items. So I'm hoping you guys can suggest to me alternative fluids - the UK has really good aftermarket fluids support so I'm more hopeful about consistent supply that way than trying to source potentially wrong or hookey "original Mopar" fluids from faceless internet people.

So far, I have bought:

ENGINE:
Mobil Super 3000 X1 FE 5W/30 for the engine oil, along with a Baldwin B2 oil filter.

I would really recommend alternatives to original Mopar for:

GEARBOX:
Am pretty sure any decent ATF4+ fluid will do - please give suggestions from experience.

TRANSFER CASE:
This is the one I may have to take the gamble on and buy "genuine Mopar 247 TC fluid". Or have you guys used something else successfully?

FRONT AND REAR DIFFS:
Again, I may have to buy the Mopar oil and the MOPAR FM. But... I've now read Amsoil 75W/140 Severe Gear is very good and may only need a smidge of Amsoil's own FM if at all?

POWER STEERING FLUID:
No way I'm getting MS-5931. But I have read the Amsoil Full Synthetic Multi Vhicle Hydraulic Fluid is a perfect alternative?

COOLANT:
No way I'm getting hold of real MOPAR HOAT. Zerex G-05 is also rocking horse crap around here. I can get Comma XStream G-05 easily but they list it as OAT not HOAT?

Thanks so much in advance!

Ben
 
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#3 ·
Unofficially (or even officially depending on whom you talk to) you can put Mobil 424 fluid in the 247 transfer case. It is what I've been using for the past 5 years or so and the rumor is that it is actually what Mopar sold as the "special" fluid once the issues with recommending ATF in the 247 became apparent. I even run it in my 242 case as well just because I have it.

I use any quality branded extended life coolant that claims to play well with others as "all makes and models". Some guys will spaz out (or to be more proper "balk") at the suggestion and insist on Zerex HOAT instead but I'm not convinced it's necessary and it's hard to find when you need it anyway.

I sought out Zerex G05 once and also a product made by Peak that is supposed to be compliant. I ended up having to drain the system a short while later I think in both cases. I thought at the time "this is ridiculous" and did a little research. I've been running "universal coolant" ever since.
 
#4 ·
Hi, I am also UK based and recently changed all fluids. I went with Comma for both engine oil and transmission fluid. Petronas Arbor for the transfer case, Redline with Mopar FM in the diffs and Redline for the power steering - these came from these guys - http://www.4playjeep.com/ . I went with Comma again with the G05 coolant, it meets Chrysler MS9769 and is what comes up on Comma's site as the fluid for the 4.7.

You'll want to deal with these guys soon, their prices are much better than you will find for most parts in the UK - https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/jeep,2004,grand+cherokee,4.7l+v8,1420771 . You will find filters and stuff so much cheaper than Uk prices. It is well worth making up a reasonable size order and should you use them get stuff sent VAT paid via Fedex - it works out the cheapest way. Last week I needed a starter motor, my local factors got one but it was a bit bigger - it is a tight fit and the starters changed in early 2003 - ordered through Rockauto on a Wednesday afternoon and it was with me on Friday.
 
#5 ·
Another UK 4.7L owner here. As with HampshireWJ I use Comma G05 coolant from Amazon, and the Redline power steering fluid that meets MS5931.

The actual Mopar transfer case fluid seems to be officially unobtanium now, and I've seen the Petronas Arbor mentioned elsewhere as a substitute - supposedly that's even what UK Jeep dealerships will sell you if you ask for 247 TC fluid.
 
#6 ·
Thanks so much everyone! Sperm whale juice or unobtanium LOL, its a nightmare isn't it! But you've all really helped. Thanks UK guys, nice to see I'm not alone.

Guess I'll give 4Play a call tomorrow then, and get hold of the:

- Redline 75W/140 gear oil (with the FM in it, although I might get some additional Redline FM just in case I get binding.
- Redline PAS fluid.
- Mopar ATF4+ (seems that 4Play can get hold of this genuine at least?).
- Petronas Arbor TC fluid.

My only moot point is the Comma XStream G-05 coolant. It's only listed as OAT rather than HOAT. Have either of you UK chaps tried getting hold of the Zerex G-05 which seems to be listed as HOAT?

Ben
 
#16 ·
My only moot point is the Comma XStream G-05 coolant. It's only listed as OAT rather than HOAT. Have either of you UK chaps tried getting hold of the Zerex G-05 which seems to be listed as HOAT?
The Comma coolant is the same stuff as the Zerex, just branded and packaged differently. Both of them meet Chrysler MS9769 spec, which is HOAT. Here's Comma's own page about G-05 - you'll see it doesn't mention HOAT at all, but it *does* mention MS9769 under "Official Approvals".

Always go by the spec number. As long as the right one is printed on the label, it's the right stuff. It's not unusual for online product descriptions to simply not state whether something is HOAT or OAT (or to state one or the other, but be wrong) - the spec number is what you should be looking for.
 
#8 ·
UK 4.7 owner too

Transmission: I put a new sump pan on, used Westway ATF+4 with Wix filters - shifts flawlessly.

Pas fluid: Redline.

Front/rear axle: I've used Redline 75/140 FS - next time round though I may go for Westway 75/140 synthetic and put separate friction modifier in.

Transfer case: as said above its considered that the original 'special' transfer case fluid was mobil 424. The best value thing to cross reference to that here is Lucas synthetic hydraulic fluid - got that from a tip on this forum.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Prepare for a lengthy chat with 4Play!! He has the Mopar friction modifier, and I added that to the Redline that is for limited slip diffs.

Personally I wouldn't go with Mopar transmission fluid, I'd go for a good quality ATF4+. Will you be changing the transmission filters too - if so and you leave the sump off to drain you may find you need more fluid than the WJJeeps advises. I used a gasket on my trans pan. You may want to get gaskets for the diffs, I used RTV silicon but wish I had gone with the Lubelocker gaskets in retrospect - no don't leaks on mine but with gaskets it is just easier. You may want to get some diff covers with drain plugs to make life easier in the future.

As the Comma fluid meets Chrysler standards then I am pretty certain it must be HOAT. My car runs pretty cool on it, just below mid way on the gauge and off roading on August bank holiday with temps of 90F it remained there, so it is doing the job.

The Quadradrive works nicely giving traction as needed.

Have fun!
 
#10 ·
Mobil 424 is supposed to be more readily available in the UK than here. The 2.5 gallon jug I bought several years ago was about $50 give or take. I had to order it online though.
 
#14 ·
Simply down to cost.

Westway 75w140 fully synthetic GL5 is £34.99 for 5L (friction modifier needs to be added tho). Redline 75w-140 FS is good stuff but about £20 per US quart (just under 1L).
I've used Westway on a few cars now and very satisfied - their ATF+4 works great in my WJ's 545rfe transmission, and costs a lot less than Mopar (think it's half the price).

Thread on using Lucas fluid in the transfer case: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/lucas-tractor-oil-nv247-wj-1435036/ just over £20 on ebay for the 1US Gal/3.79L bottle.
 
#13 ·
Yes, unfortunately it is more common here in the large drums as well since it is mostly used in large quantity with tractors and industrial equipment. You may be able to locate a Mobil "jobber" with a retail counter who would be willing to order a smaller container for you. Think "mom and pop" sole proprietor type places who sell supplies to rural land equipment operators. Chain stores will probably not be willing or able to order it for you. A Mobil-branded non-chain store petrol station, for example.

I bought the 2.5 gallon jug from a large US online retail supplier called Zoro. It was a substantially greater value at 2.5 gallons than it was per quart, as I recall.
 
#15 ·
You could also try contacting a Mobil corporate office in the UK to inquire about how to get in touch with someone in their UK dealer network who handles retail sales.
 
#17 ·
Westway do transfer case fluid at £17 a litre, you could call round your local tractor dealers and ask if they use mobilfluid 424 and would they sell you a few litres if you bring your own bottle. Synergy Harvella UTTO 10W-30 is supposed to be the same as mobilfluid 424 and Lubricant Supplies sells 20 litres for £45 +VAT and shipping.
 
#19 ·
I just use the proper oil resistant RTV, a thin bead no more than 1/4 the width over the contact area with a loop round each bolt hole, never had any leaks. just hand tighten the bolts till you "feel" the RTV squishing. you get leaks when you over tighten the bolts.
 
#21 ·
The exception I would make to the use of RTV though is on the transmission sump pan. If you have a standard 4.7 WJ it won't have a drain plug on the pan, so if you do change the ATF+4 fluid you either pump out the dip stick/fill pipe or drop the pan.

When putting a new pan on (my WJ came with a dented pan and was leaking round the lip) I let it drain for about 2 hours, and there was still some fluid seeping out over the rear lip. Can't see how RTV would've been able to stick to it. The Wix filter kit came with a rubber gasket and that hasn't showed any leaks at all (been on nearly 12 months now) - and the rubber gasket even holds the bolts in the holes when you lift the pan up to fit it, which is nice.
 
#20 ·
Birchy, I had not even considered looking for a UK supplier and think I would just order directly from a US company. A quick search revealed that you can buy via amazon.com, so this may be the easiest route. You'll change diff oil fairly infrequently in reality, so as Carl says using RTV is pretty easy, the flip side is cleaning the mating faces of old RTV each time, just strikes me a re-usable gasket makes sense.

I am sure that kolak@aol.com, a supplier of all things Jeep would source gaskets and send them over if you contact him.
 
#22 ·
A popular upgrade would be an aftermarket sump pan with a drain plug. I use those. Another user recently pointed out that you still have to drop the pan to change the filters which is true but from what I gather it really isn't necessary to change the transmission filters as often as the fluid. In fact, a filter change maybe just once or twice during the entire life of the transmission is probably enough, of course depending on various factors.
 
#23 ·
Fzz, I also used the Wix rubber gasket on my transmission pan when I changed the filters etc, also put a very thin bead of RTV on both sides of the rubber gasket "just in case" the pan wasn't flat. the idea of doing it like the FSM says and having all that RTV getting squished into the sump and going places its not meant to worried me too much!
 
#24 ·
I suppose worse case there are two filters to pick up any loose bits of silicone! But it's been OK on my WJ with just the Wix rubber gasket on there.

Used this pan off eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jeep-Gra...earbox-Transmission-Oil-Sump-Pan/362364022343 which has a drain plug so if I ever do enough miles to justify another drain & fill, it won't be as messy! Last time round used a massive piece of cardboard laid out across my driveway under the car to pick up all the drips & spills, and I still got some on the ground!
 
#26 ·
I'm late to this thread but thought I'd chime in to help.

Which part of the UK are you located in?

I've used Redline Diff oil (doesn't need friction modifier) for my diffs and redline PS fluid that meets the MS5931 spec.

I order from OpieOils, they have pretty decent customer service and even told me that they could get me the right stuff for my NV247.

My mechanic gets the Mopar TC case fluid from Jeep.

For parts I very often find myself using @Kolak for his awesome customer care, knowledge and reasonable prices (even when you factor in the cost of importing).

For 'generic' parts that I need quickly such as suspension arms, hoses and such stuff I use JeepChrylser in Bicester.

You have to be careful of some of the UK Jeep vendors as they sometimes have very cheeky markups that make it much more cost effective to order from the US.

I've got a 4.7 HO, if you need any tips or help finding things, feel free to shoot me a message!
 
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