Expensive Death Wobble - JeepForum.com
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 26 Old 06-02-2019, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 17
Angry Expensive Death Wobble

I know this topic has been talked about and discussed til we are all blue in the face. I purchased 2 WJs to make one decent one out of. I bought a 2002 limited with the leather interior and a blown up 4.7. The other WJ is also a 2002 Laredo which I took the destroyed interior out of and replaced it with the complete leather interior from the Limited including the carpet and headliner. The previous owner did a butcher job on the 2 inch budget lift. I found a set of 2.5 Rusty's springs front and back and new Rusty's shocks on all four corners. I am running 17 inch Wrangler take off wheels with stock Goodyear tires. So far I have replace the rear upper and lower control arms including the ball joint. I have checked everything on the front and the control arms feel solid and dont move with a pry bar against them. I have replaced the track bar bushings, wheel bearings, upgraded to the Akebono brakes with drilled and slotted rotors. I have also replaced all 4 tie rod ends with Moog parts. I have not changed out the steering damper because I understand that just could hide the death wobble not fix the problem. I guess I will go ahead and replace the upper and lower control arms. The ball joints on the knuckles feel tight and have been greased well. I am at my wits end and If I could sell it I would but I have not idea what to do other than keep throwing parts at it. I did have the front end aligned after I replaced the tie rod ends. I have already spent more on this jeep than it is worth but there is no rust under it. The engine runs great at almost 300,000 miles. When I get the DW the front end gets violent and I cannot correlate any roads or conditions other than the bump coming off a bridge or a high crowned road. It gets so bad sometimes that it actually leaves black marks in the road behind the Jeep where it is bouncing for lack of better wording. Does anyone have anyway to test the control arms and any input you have would be greatly appreciated.
Joe

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 06-02-2019, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 17
Oh yeah one more thing. My track bushings were replaced and I upgraded to larger bolts that did not have any play in the bushings or the mounting holes.
Joe
post #3 of 26 Old 06-03-2019, 09:18 AM
LuthWJ77
Registered User
 
LuthWJ77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Houston
Posts: 232
Garage
A couple guys have figured out tires were causing their issues. You may try to rotate them front to back and see if any difference. If yes that indicates could have a bad tire if not then not tires most likely. I've been lucky never had DW but based on all the conversations on here I've read I'd focus on track bar first. Some guys getting results with Kevin's off road track bar bushings. Long story short you mentioned yours are new but may still have some slop in there. Have someone steer it back and forth as you lay under and watch see if any movement in the track bar.
LuthWJ77 is offline  
 
post #4 of 26 Old 06-03-2019, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
[email protected]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 17

Thank you for the reply. I guess I forgot to mention but I did rotate the tires front to back and still had the death wobble. I used the stock track bar with new MOOG bushings and I went up a size in the bolt that had no play in the mounting holes or the bushings and have been under it a few times with someone turning the wheels back and forth looking for play.

Joe
post #5 of 26 Old 06-03-2019, 10:29 AM
Magnum
Registered User
1994 YJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Duluth, GA
Posts: 289
Quote:
I used the stock track bar with new MOOG bushings and I went up a size in the bolt
Did you torque the bolts to spec? As I recall, the end that attached to the chassis is difficult to reach, and I had to use a six-inch extension to get a torque wrench on it.

94 YJ, 4.0, 5-Spd, 33x12.5 GY Duratrac, RE 2.5" Lift
Brown Dog Mounts, 8.8 w/ disks, TrueTrac f & r
Magnum is offline  
post #6 of 26 Old 06-03-2019, 10:59 AM
HarryH3
Registered User
2001 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 2,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thank you for the reply. I guess I forgot to mention but I did rotate the tires front to back and still had the death wobble. I used the stock track bar with new MOOG bushings and I went up a size in the bolt that had no play in the mounting holes or the bushings and have been under it a few times with someone turning the wheels back and forth looking for play.

Joe
I installed the Moog bushings and found them to be too soft and squishy. I could feel the axle drifting under the rig. I installed some OEM-style bushings that firmed things up quite nicely. For some reason, if you try to find bushings for the WJ, the only thing listed is an entire track bar with new bushings. Here's a post about what to search for: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/...l#post38306457
HarryH3 is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 06-06-2019, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 17
More help please

So I put the stock track bar off my parts jeep back in and still have the DW. I was talking with a local shop and he was telling me that since I bought the Jeep without the front drive shaft installed maybe it is not in the correct position! Has anyone heard of this? I also placed the Jeep up for trade or sale on Craigslist and a fella on there said that my axle and sway bar angles may not be right? Has anyone heard of this? I cant just keep throwing money at it. I dont feel the front drive shaft should be an issue since I have the part time transfer case.
Any help please?
Joe
post #8 of 26 Old 06-06-2019, 10:37 PM
Mofugly13
Member
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 169
I dealt with death wobble along with a couple others in a thread a while back. Search and youíll find it, its many pages long. My final fix after new everything and multiple alignments and adjustments was a monotube steering stabilizer from Rustyís. YMMV, but I donít give a hoot at this point if itís just masking the deal problem. I put in new EVERYTHING. The steering stabilizer did the trick...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
underscore likes this.
Mofugly13 is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 06-07-2019, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
[email protected]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 17
i have been looking at just doing that. I dont know what else to look at. Heck I may put a dual steering stabilizer on it just so I can drive it.
post #10 of 26 Old 06-07-2019, 12:24 PM
Mofugly13
Member
1999 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 169
The other member in the same thread that was battling DW fixed his with KOR heavy duty steering stabilizer and KOR track bar bushings. I'm convinced that a monotube stabilizer is the fix vs. twin tube due to the way they are designed. But Rustys is the ONLY vendor to offer a monotube stabilizer for the wj as far as I can tell. My first one leaked and DW came back after a huge pothole on the freeway. I warranted it and have the new one on and all is good.

Bit as far as I know, the KOR stabilizer is still doing the job on his ride...

Anyhow, I got paranoia after the first leaking one and started searching for a known brand, hopefully rebuildable stabilizer, bilstein, specifically. But when I emailed them they told me they do not make one for the wj, they dont make universal stabilizers, and that theirs are "specially tuned" for the vehicles they are designed for.

So, I got underneath the WJ and measured the collapsed and extended length stabilizer required. Collapsed is 13 1/2", extended is 20".

So I ent back to bilsteins site and looked at part numbers and specs, and the stabilizer for an 07-17 Wrangler that they offer is 13.19 collapsed, 20.01 extended. PN 24-158428

Well, that's right on the money pretty much. So I ordered one on Amazon. It will be here Tuesday and I will see what it takes to mount it. I dont see why it wont mount right up.

There were I think 4 other part numbers that would have fit the bill as far as collapsed and extended length is concerned, but they were for Ford and Chevy pickups. So I opted for the one for the jeep, since that's what ive got....

I'll let you know how it goes.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Mofugly13 is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 06-07-2019, 01:04 PM
MeatCurtains
Registered User
 
MeatCurtains's Avatar
2012 JK Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: FT MITCHELL
Posts: 554
Steering geometry can absolutely cause it, pinion angle and driveshaft vibration can cause it too.

Another cause I've seen is bad track bar mounts. I've seen JKs where the mount on the axle was blown out from not being tight in the first place. It would allow the axle to smash back and forth causing it.
MeatCurtains is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 06-08-2019, 09:44 PM
SoCal2004wj
Registered User
 
SoCal2004wj's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryH3 View Post
I installed the Moog bushings and found them to be too soft and squishy. I could feel the axle drifting under the rig. I installed some OEM-style bushings that firmed things up quite nicely. For some reason, if you try to find bushings for the WJ, the only thing listed is an entire track bar with new bushings. Here's a post about what to search for: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310...l#post38306457
Went this route as well and totally cured my DW problem
SoCal2004wj is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 06-09-2019, 12:05 PM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 9,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryH3 View Post
I installed the Moog bushings and found them to be too soft and squishy. I could feel the axle drifting under the rig. I installed some OEM-style bushings that firmed things up quite nicely. For some reason, if you try to find bushings for the WJ, the only thing listed is an entire track bar with new bushings. Here's a post about what to search for: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310...l#post38306457
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal2004wj View Post
Went this route as well and totally cured my DW problem
Some good info guys, thanks. Guess I shouldn't have bought the whole Moog track bar If the bushings are soft/squishy. Was going by a Martin video where he recommended the Moog but believe he may have ties to Amazon. Regardless, haven't installed it yet but too late to return since I bought it 1-1/2 months ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

One of the 3 reviewers did say the bushings were garbage and guess I should take videos from what I thought were reliable people with a grain of salt.

Curious where you bought those "TRW HB1849 Bushings", as shown in your other thread photos Harry, since I'm not finding them anywhere in a various searches? Thanks.

I did see where TRW was bought out by another company in 2015 but think you bought those bushings afterwards.

BTW, I'm not experiencing the death wobble but last year I had a right front caliper stick on a few times when braking at high speeds which violently shook the whole front end. While I replaced all the brake parts again figured the front track bar bushings could be worn but only have 113K miles on my stock 04.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 07:44 AM
HarryH3
Registered User
2001 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 2,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
Curious where you bought those "TRW HB1849 Bushings", as shown in your other thread photos Harry, since I'm not finding them anywhere in a various searches? Thanks.
Perhaps they don't make them any more? Just search for track bar bushings for a 2500 series 4WD Dodge truck. Jeeples listed 96-2004, IIRC. There are other brands that make the OEM style, they just never seem to be listed for the WJ.
HarryH3 is offline  
post #15 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 11:08 AM
Uniblurb
Web Wheeler
 
Uniblurb's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Central
Posts: 9,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryH3 View Post
Perhaps they don't make them any more? Just search for track bar bushings for a 2500 series 4WD Dodge truck. Jeeples listed 96-2004, IIRC. There are other brands that make the OEM style, they just never seem to be listed for the WJ.
Thanks for checking, appreciate it. It was some German auto parts company which bought TRW out so maybe they just decided to phase those track bar bushings out? Too bad if aftermarket aren't as good as OEM or meet the specs.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Uniblurb is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome