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post #1 of 36 Old 08-10-2020, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
bezzat
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change brake fluid

hi
2004 wj
need to change all brake fluid
1. in the services manual write dot 3 , and a friend said use dot 4 ..so what to use ?
2. quantity for all ?
3.Any idea is welcome

Thanks


2004 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 2.7L CRD
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post #2 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 12:02 AM
HampshireWJ
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Best get a couple of litres, and bleed the brakes until clear new fluid is coming out of the bleed screws with no air. I used Dot 4 when I renewed my brakes.
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post #3 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 12:25 AM
Uniblurb
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I've always used Prestone DOT-3 brake fluid and it may have been their full synthetic when I flushed all my 04 old brake fluid out.

http://prestone.com/products?detail=AS400Y

Believe I bought a couple quart (32oz) bottles. Think I used a bottle and a half but was having difficulties getting the air out of the master cylinder. Lesson leaned and don't let your MC go dry even when replacing 4 calipers.

Not sure what's available across the pond but even the Mopar brake fluid is DOT-3 spec which can be seen below.

http://www.wjjeeps.com/service/maintenance_wj.htm
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post #4 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 01:09 AM Thread Starter
bezzat
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opinions were divided......
Again this gets me confused
I once heard that oil can be used above the declared

Is there any device for removing the oil or pressing with the pedal?

2004 JEEP GRAND CHEROKEE 2.7L CRD
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post #5 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 02:51 AM
MuloChico
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Last I checked Dot-4 can be used instead of Dot-3, but not the other way around. If I'm not mistaken Dot-5 or above isn't supposed to be used in any lower than Dot-5. As in Dot-4 can't be used in Dot-5 and Dot-5 can't be used in Dot-4. Once it got above Dot-5 it gets fuzzy for me.
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post #6 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 03:16 AM
Uniblurb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bezzat View Post
opinions were divided......
Again this gets me confused
I once heard that oil can be used above the declared

Is there any device for removing the oil or pressing with the pedal?
Towards the end of doing a complete brake job on my 04 about 7 years ago I bought the below "Motive 0103 Power Bleeder" for late model Chrysler.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I should have bought one a long time ago. Just added about 1/2 bottle of brake fluid to the bleeder tank, attached the adapter to the top of the brake fluid reservoir, pumped up about 10-12 psi of pressure, then opened the caliper bleeder screws one at a time from the furthest to the closest (right rear, left rear, right front, left front) until there was clear new fluid coming out of all of them. I opened/shut one bleeder screw at a time until the new fluid showed up. And I always attach a hose to the screw to drain it into a jar or can.

I did stop and added some more brake fluid while pumping up the pressure a little to keep it around 10-12 psi. My wife's favorite tool since it take her out of the brake pedal pumping equation!
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post #7 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 07:03 AM
HampshireWJ
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Bezzat, I would suggest you have a helper to push and hold the brake pedal and that you operate the bleed screws. On cmy WJ the front and rear screws were different sizes, I think the rear was 10mm and the front was 3/8 incn. Best to use proper brake flare spanners (wrench).

Start with the furthest one from the master cyclinder, attach a flexible hose to the bleed screw and insert the open end into a jar or plastic bottle with some brake fluid already in it, hose below fluid level so you don't suck in air. Loosen the bleed screw a little and ask your helper to push down on the brake pedal, fluid will come out into the jar. Pump the pedal say four times have the helper hold the pedal down and tighten the bleed screw, top up the reservoir with new fluid. Repeat until there is new fluid coming out of the bleed screw - at this point that line is done. You then repeat this process on the other three calipers, moving closer to the master cylinder each time.

If you loosen the bleed screws too much they will pull in air and you will see this as a fine stream of bubbles in the fluid going into the jar. While bleeding the brakes make sure the reservoir is topped up, you can let this be above the normal fill line while bleeding continues. Hope this helps?
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post #8 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 04:55 PM
UKXJ
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Rule 1 - avoid at all costs any job that entails breaking into the hydraulic system & therefore having to bleed the brakes. On modern vehicles (i.e. less than 25 years old) if you do have to replace a line, cylinder or caliper, chances are you'll only need to bleed that corner. That reduces the almost inevitable destruction of a bleeder by 75% (of course if you're in a dry state that probably doesn't apply - from video clips I've seen)

Rule 2 - in the real world there is never any need to change brake fluid (a peculiarly American obsession I'd never even heard of before forums).

Rule 3- nothing you ever knew/read about bleeding brakes applies to Jeeps because fluid will only come out under pressure & even then only a dribble (about 6 months ago I drove my '98 XJ for about a week blissfully unaware that the soft line to the back axle had torn out of the fitting at the end.)
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post #9 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
Towards the end of doing a complete brake job on my 04 about 7 years ago I bought the below "Motive 0103 Power Bleeder" for late model Chrysler.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I should have bought one a long time ago. Just added about 1/2 bottle of brake fluid to the bleeder tank, attached the adapter to the top of the brake fluid reservoir, pumped up about 10-12 psi of pressure, then opened the caliper bleeder screws one at a time from the furthest to the closest (right rear, left rear, right front, left front) until there was clear new fluid coming out of all of them. I opened/shut one bleeder screw at a time until the new fluid showed up. And I always attach a hose to the screw to drain it into a jar or can.

I did stop and added some more brake fluid while pumping up the pressure a little to keep it around 10-12 psi. My wife's favorite tool since it take her out of the brake pedal pumping equation!
Motive Power Bleeders are great, and make the job a one person job, and a much easier job.

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post #10 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKXJ View Post
Rule 2 - in the real world there is never any need to change brake fluid (a peculiarly American obsession I'd never even heard of before forums).
Brake fluid absorbs moisture, causing rust in the system, water also boils at a lower temp.
then clean fluid, contributing to brake fade.
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post #11 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKXJ View Post
Rule 3- nothing you ever knew/read about bleeding brakes applies to Jeeps because fluid will only come out under pressure & even then only a dribble (about 6 months ago I drove my '98 XJ for about a week blissfully unaware that the soft line to the back axle had torn out of the fitting at the end.)
Dual circuit braking system is designed so if one circuit is damaged the other circuit will still
stop the vehicle. this is why you where still able to stop.

Back on topic, DOT 4 can be added to a DOT 3 system but not the other way around.

I use DOT 3 in my Jeep.

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post #12 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKXJ View Post
Rule 1 - avoid at all costs any job that entails breaking into the hydraulic system & therefore having to bleed the brakes. On modern vehicles (i.e. less than 25 years old) if you do have to replace a line, cylinder or caliper, chances are you'll only need to bleed that corner. That reduces the almost inevitable destruction of a bleeder by 75% (of course if you're in a dry state that probably doesn't apply - from video clips I've seen)

Rule 2 - in the real world there is never any need to change brake fluid (a peculiarly American obsession I'd never even heard of before forums).

Rule 3- nothing you ever knew/read about bleeding brakes applies to Jeeps because fluid will only come out under pressure & even then only a dribble (about 6 months ago I drove my '98 XJ for about a week blissfully unaware that the soft line to the back axle had torn out of the fitting at the end.)



answer 1: spray the bleeder a day before you need to open it, with some penetrating oil. use a socket, not an open end wrench. problem solved. (pro tip: put some anti-seize on the threads. keeps the bleeder from sticking, and helps bleeding by sealing the threads, preventing air from being sucked in)



answer 2: brake fluid will absorb moisture from the atmosphere. old oil in a "closed system" comes out contaminated. how did this happen, if the system is closed?



answer 3: i have NEVER had anyone pump the brakes, nor have i done it myself. i pull the fluid through the system, using a hand vacuum pump. there is nothing mystical, or magic about the jeeps brake system. it bleeds just as easily as any other vehicle, with a comparable type brake system. open a bleeder, and the fluid will come out. guys that have replaced banjo bolt washers can attest to this fact. nothing sucks worse, than coming out the next day, and finding a huge puddle of brake fluid on the ground, because the washers weren't squeezed thinner than paper, when you were tightening the bolts so hard, you feared they would shear off.
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post #13 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 07:41 PM
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#1 - DOT 4 is backward compatible, as suggested here. Use whatever you can easily get, they'll function about the same.

#2 - I used about a bottle and between a half and three quarters of another. Toss any leftover, it won't keep once opened.

#3 - I use a self bleeder can. I bought it at my local parts store but here's a link to make one:

Make sure to keep a section of hose higher than the bleeder valve so that any air gets trapped at the high point rather than being sucked back in.

Be prepared to buy a new caliper if your bleeder is seized.

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post #14 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 07:59 PM
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my experience with all cars driven over 60 yrs,with dual mc, is when the back needs adjusted or is leaking, the pedal goes to the floor. front barely stops. fix rear, all is well again,....?dont know why...

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post #15 of 36 Old 08-11-2020, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uniblurb View Post
Towards the end of doing a complete brake job on my 04 about 7 years ago I bought the below "Motive 0103 Power Bleeder" for late model Chrysler.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I should have bought one a long time ago. Just added about 1/2 bottle of brake fluid to the bleeder tank, attached the adapter to the top of the brake fluid reservoir, pumped up about 10-12 psi of pressure, then opened the caliper bleeder screws one at a time from the furthest to the closest (right rear, left rear, right front, left front) until there was clear new fluid coming out of all of them. I opened/shut one bleeder screw at a time until the new fluid showed up. And I always attach a hose to the screw to drain it into a jar or can.

I did stop and added some more brake fluid while pumping up the pressure a little to keep it around 10-12 psi. My wife's favorite tool since it take her out of the brake pedal pumping equation!
Hilarious and soooo true! By the third caliper, my wife said 'my leg is tired, get your daughter to help you!'
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