Can You Find Anything Good to Read in this Report on Corrosion in Soldered Joints? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 28 Old 09-10-2021, 04:12 AM Thread Starter
Delta0
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Can You Find Anything Good to Read in this Report on Corrosion in Soldered Joints?

https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/14961

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post #2 of 28 Old 09-10-2021, 10:05 AM
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Not really but it does help to suggest ways to reduce the electromigration effect.
Try not to join dissimilar metals
By definition solder is a dissimilar metal- best to try and 'match' the solder to the material being soldered. Not always possible. INteresting table showing different solder alloy combinations
Seal the joint from the environment, avoid mechanical stresses.
Electromigration is stochastic in nature....hmmmm hard to believe but that suggests you never know when it will happen. I wish they talked about different rates of migration. At least you would have an idea if it will fail in 10 years or 20, but realistically, how big an issue is this? (in automobiles?)
In general, a doom and gloom situation, just hope you can outlive it...lol
J
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post #3 of 28 Old 09-10-2021, 02:06 PM
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I do remember in the Air Force there were NO soldered joints on aircraft for corrosion reasons. Not being an electrical guy I didn't pay much mind to it but I do remember it being talked about.
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post #4 of 28 Old 09-25-2021, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by three_jeeps View Post
Not really but it does help to suggest ways to reduce the electromigration effect.
Try not to join dissimilar metals
By definition solder is a dissimilar metal- best to try and 'match' the solder to the material being soldered. Not always possible. INteresting table showing different solder alloy combinations
Seal the joint from the environment, avoid mechanical stresses.
Electromigration is stochastic in nature....hmmmm hard to believe but that suggests you never know when it will happen. I wish they talked about different rates of migration. At least you would have an idea if it will fail in 10 years or 20, but realistically, how big an issue is this? (in automobiles?)
In general, a doom and gloom situation, just hope you can outlive it...lol
J
Thanks Three.
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post #5 of 28 Old 09-25-2021, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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I do remember in the Air Force there were NO soldered joints on aircraft for corrosion reasons. Not being an electrical guy I didn't pay much mind to it but I do remember it being talked about.
Thanks cD.
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post #6 of 28 Old 09-25-2021, 03:46 AM
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Ideally solder is not truly a classical dissimilar metal in the sense that, if done right, the solder actually DISSOLVES into the surface of the target creating a diffused instead of sharp boundary. That is, of course often difficult to accomplish effectively in the field.
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post #7 of 28 Old 09-25-2021, 07:29 AM
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in a looong list of worrries, soldered wire would be on my last page, at the bottom.
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post #8 of 28 Old 09-25-2021, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cDee63 View Post
I do remember in the Air Force there were NO soldered joints on aircraft for corrosion reasons. Not being an electrical guy I didn't pay much mind to it but I do remember it being talked about.
Not for corrosion, but because the solder joint can get work hardened and fail mechanically. A connector won't do that. I've never seen a solder joint on an airplane, but I haven't been around any A/Ps in a long time.

Also, that's my understanding why auto OE's don't solder harnesses.

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post #9 of 28 Old 09-26-2021, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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Ideally solder is not truly a classical dissimilar metal in the sense that, if done right, the solder actually DISSOLVES into the surface of the target creating a diffused instead of sharp boundary. That is, of course often difficult to accomplish effectively in the field.
Please will you tell us more about the way the solder actually DISSOLVES into the surface of the target Jay?
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post #10 of 28 Old 09-26-2021, 03:34 AM
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Please will you tell us more about the way the solder actually DISSOLVES into the surface of the target Jay?
https://www.tch.es/wp-content/upload...rmetallics.pdf

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post #11 of 28 Old 09-27-2021, 01:23 AM Thread Starter
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Any chance of you explaining that learned document in simple English for us please Jay?
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post #12 of 28 Old 09-27-2021, 04:11 AM
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Any chance of you explaining that learned document in simple English for us please Jay?
Basically that molecules from the solder permeate a very small distance into the substrate., which essentially becomes an alloy of the solder and the copper. This is electrically significant because it is not just a mechanical connection but a smooth transition between the materials. When this fails to happen for whatever reason, it's what sometimes is called a cold joint, physically attached but not electrically bonded.
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post #13 of 28 Old 09-27-2021, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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Basically that molecules from the solder permeate a very small distance into the substrate., which essentially becomes an alloy of the solder and the copper. This is electrically significant because it is not just a mechanical connection but a smooth transition between the materials. When this fails to happen for whatever reason, it's what sometimes is called a cold joint, physically attached but not electrically bonded.
Thanks Jay.

Please will you tell us how to get a correct joint.
That is a joint in which very tiny bits of the solder slink between very tiny bits of the cable / connector please?

Please will you also tell us the type of very bit if the solder gets down and dirty with the very tiny bits of the cable / connector please?

Please will you tell us what sticks a dry / cold joint together?please?

Finally, please will you tell us how to work out if we've just made a correct joint or a bad / cold / dry joint?
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post #14 of 28 Old 09-27-2021, 10:22 AM
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Thanks Jay.

Please will you tell us how to get a correct joint.
That is a joint in which very tiny bits of the solder slink between very tiny bits of the cable / connector please?

Please will you also tell us the type of very bit if the solder gets down and dirty with the very tiny bits of the cable / connector please?

Please will you tell us what sticks a dry / cold joint together?please?

Finally, please will you tell us how to work out if we've just made a correct joint or a bad / cold / dry joint?
Many ppl solder incorrectly. They think that they should just put the solder on the iron and melt the solder. That is wrong. The correct way is to heat the connection with the soldering iron, touch the heated connection with the solder (usually away from the soldering iron) and let the solder flow into the wires. Keeping the soldering iron on the connection for a short period of time (3-10 seconds, depending on what is being soldered) after the solder flows will ensure the bonding. A soldering flux is often used to remove contaminants on the metal. Some solders have a rosin core that contains a small amount of flux in it.

If the metal is heavily corroded, cleaning with an abrasive such as sand paper or crocus cloth is required. The sanding material depends on what is being soldered - fine grit such as 220 is good for wires, crocus cloth is good for contacts such as a motor armature slip-ring or commutator.

A cold solder joint will look crystalline. A cold solder joint can be reworked by applying heat to the wires/connection until the solder liquefies and flows into/around the strands.
J
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post #15 of 28 Old 09-27-2021, 10:25 AM
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Thanks Jay.

Please will you tell us how to get a correct joint.
That is a joint in which very tiny bits of the solder slink between very tiny bits of the cable / connector please?

Please will you also tell us the type of very bit if the solder gets down and dirty with the very tiny bits of the cable / connector please?

Please will you tell us what sticks a dry / cold joint together?please?

Finally, please will you tell us how to work out if we've just made a correct joint or a bad / cold / dry joint?
I'm sure there are plenty of people in the electronics world more experienced at actually creating good solder joints (many of my joints aren't that good). I'm just covering from the chemistry angle, why it's different from a mechanical metallic join. There is a hell of a lot of good practical info on the web.
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