avoiding valve seat drops-preventative measures? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
three_jeeps
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avoiding valve seat drops-preventative measures?

As my jeep get up in mileage (~140K) the potential valve seat dropping issue is in my head every day. I plan on keeping the jeep for a while, so I am wondering if replacing the head with a new one that has the seats pinned is a reasonable approach to eliminate the potential problem. Spending ~$600-800 now to avoid a $3K problem down the road seems like a reasonable alternative.
Thoughts? what else major can go wrong?

Where to get a good quality new/rebuilt head for the 4.7L S.O engine?

I am surprised that there arn't some major lawsuits against these companies that produce this crap. I understand that Ford Edge (?) has this problem? Other vehicles?
Funny that I haven't heard of any problems like this on Hondas, Subarus, BMWs...(although BWMs have head warp issues...)
Point is, one spends 45K for a vehicle that has a self destruct mechanism built in....I mean WTF!?!?!?!

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post #2 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 01:48 PM
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There are plenty of engines that suffer catastrophic failures far worse then a dropped valve seat in the 4.7 but because the vehicle says jeep and its a Chrysler product its automatically subjected to harsh criticism because people just hate on Chrysler. The 1st 2 vehicles I owned were an 88' and 89' toyota tercel both blew head gaskets and developed rod knocks very bad (went to the crusher) I will never buy another toyota again.
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcaliber81 View Post
There are plenty of engines that suffer catastrophic failures far worse then a dropped valve seat in the 4.7 but because the vehicle says jeep and its a Chrysler product its automatically subjected to harsh criticism because people just hate on Chrysler. The 1st 2 vehicles I owned were an 88' and 98' toyota tercel both blew head gaskets and developed rod knocks very bad (went to the crusher) I will never buy another toyota again.
I don't bash the product because it is Chrysler. I've owned 3 GC's since 1992 and each one had their own failure modes common across all jeeps of that era. What makes me nuts is they fix one common problem that affects 2-3 model years and create a new one.

Anyway, after making big engines for decades, they still screw it up, and the consumer pays

Funny you mention Toyota....I am seriously looking at Highlander hybrid as a replacement for the GC.
J
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post #4 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 03:24 PM
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I look at it like this...... people get on here to solve problems and ask if others have had the same problems (head gaskets, dropped valves, Pcms, ect).
And i fuger that only a hand full of WJ owners EVER get on this and other websites, and that jeep, or any other manufacturers didn't intend for people to keep a vehicle for this long. I bet that for every one dropped valve talked about on here there are at least a few hundred that never had a problem. IMHO..... leave it alone and drive it like u stole it!!!
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Mule View Post
I look at it like this...... people get on here to solve problems and ask if others have had the same problems (head gaskets, dropped valves, Pcms, ect).
And i fuger that only a hand full of WJ owners EVER get on this and other websites, and that jeep, or any other manufacturers didn't intend for people to keep a vehicle for this long. I bet that for every one dropped valve talked about on here there are at least a few hundred that never had a problem. IMHO..... leave it alone and drive it like u stole it!!!
By the way... You didn't steal it, did you?


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post #6 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 06:31 PM
CarlJH
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from all the reading on the subject I've done the common opinion is it's more likely to happen when you shut the engine off straight after coming off the highway like stopping for fuel, groceries. I've always backed off the throttle 5 mins before stopping to let things cool down a bit, something you learn when running turbo diesels so you don't stop the motor while the turbo's at 800+C!!!!
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 08:59 PM
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Yup. You can do a top end refresh and get the issue corrected a couple ways. New gaskets, a fresh grind etc

Other engines drop seats when they overheat as well. People are morons. If you look at the poll we run here, over 88% of forum 4.7 owners have never dropped a seat. Given this forum is bound to attract people with technical issues I bet 90-95% of 4.7ís donít drop seats. Those are good odds, and Iíve been seeing a LOT of 4.0 piston skirt failures lately, far more than seat drops!
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-20-2019, 09:18 PM
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When I bought my 04 4.7 about 7 years ago I hadn't read up a bunch on the dropped valve seat problems but have since then. I've said to myself I'm not going to worry about this happening or I'll never enjoy my WJ Limited which I really like.

About all I can do is use the best preventative maintenance methods I can, change the fluids/filters at the correct service intervals or sooner, and never let it overheat. I've also instructed my wife to shut it down immediately if it starts to overheat like if a radiator hose blows or something. She doesn't worry about it either since we both want to enjoy what we're driving. Life's too short to worry about what could go wrong....
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-21-2019, 10:57 AM
blueseasons
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I dont know where you got the 88%. But not 100% of dropped valve seats are not reported, anywhere.
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post #10 of 23 Old 07-21-2019, 01:16 PM
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Yes. How many millions of 4.7 engines did Chrysler end up making? With apologies to anyone here on the forum who actually has had a 4.7 dropped valve seat, even as much as a few thousand vocal victims haunting Internet forums with horror stories can make it look like a real issue when if fact, in terms of statistical significance, the problem may be no more common than with any other engine. Not all (disclaimer, of course) but many dropped valves are quite likely due to negligent engine overheating incidents.

Most modern engines have valves and seats built into aluminum heads just like the 4.7's were. I don't know but I suspect few (none?) OEMs stake or otherwise reinforce valve seats at the factory beyond the normal pressed fit. Am I wrong here? If so, please speak up.

At the onset of HEMI fever, people (and many in the industry including media) wanted a reason to hate on the "boring, aging" 4.7 so they could justify to themselves and to their wives, bankers - whomever, that they needed a HEMI instead of "that bad 4.7". I think the HEMI and general industry progress killed the 4.7, not dropped valve seats or any other congenital failure of design, engineering or manufacturing.

1999 WJ Limited 4.7/NV247
2001 WJ Laredo 4.7/NP242
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-21-2019, 02:33 PM
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You see this type of discussion on all sorts of different makes and models. But the good thing is , the zjs,wjs, tjs,ljs ect are CHEAP..... when it becomes a rust bucket or has electrical problems or the motor blows..... fix it or dump it and get another!


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post #12 of 23 Old 07-22-2019, 08:59 AM
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The vast majority of valve seat failures can be contributed to poor maintenance and/or neglect (IE; driving the vehicle while it's overheating). Hardly the manufacturer's fault when people are running a vehicle outside of it's recommended usage or maintenance schedules.

There were 3 million 4.7's produced between '99 and '13, along with millions of the 3.7 V6 (same engine minus 2 cylinders). There's been many attempts to document the failure rate of valve seats (including a poll at the top of this very forum), however with the newest of WJ 4.7's being 15 years old at this point it's hard to determine whether or not the failure was due to a manufacturing defect or neglect, there's not very many original owners left and very few WJ's come with complete service/maintenance records.

That said, I have 2 4.7 WJ's in my driveway, both with the original factory engines and trans. Both are daily drivers with my '00 being the WJ that pulls trail duty as well. I just rolled 204K miles on my 4.7 and the wife's just hit 164K miles.

That's almost 370K service miles between the two. We've had my wife's WJ for the majority of it's life thus far, as it had right around 40K miles on it when she bought it. My WJ was bought for $900 as a non-runner due to a bad ECM, but compression is good and it runs strong. Both engines use 1/2 to 3/4 quart of oil between oil changes (interval of 4K miles).

My wife's WJ is babied, and while I run my 4.7 hard, I don't abuse it. Maybe I got lucky twice, but I've of the opinion that good maintenance will prevent the majority of catastrophic failures that folks see with the 4.7.
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His: '00 WJ 4.7 Limited- Some stuff

Hers: '03 WJ 4.7 Laredo- Some more stuff


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Quote:
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This is easily the worst post, and thread, I have ever seen in 7 years of being on JF.
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post #13 of 23 Old 07-22-2019, 09:18 AM
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Each engine that the WJ came with has its own problems. 4.0 heads in some years and pistons skits in all. The 4.7 was initially plagued with sludge problems, which was corrected with oil change revamp and as time went on head gaskets and the valve seat drops. These issues were avoidable from a design and manufacturing perspective. I tend to look at it oppositely. Its a matter of luck if you dont drop a valve seat. Thats not a viable statistic but I still see way more 4.0's on the road than 4.7's I have read where people swear they performed regular maintenance did not overheat and still dropped a valve. One big issue is I read that seats are formed, not cut out of one piece of metal. They are basically powdered metal, pressed together. I'm not a mechanic or a chemist but thats what I understand. Every remanufacturer of engines pin those seats. Chrysler could and should have done the same thing, but didnt. If they had, we'd wouldn't be able to have this debate. Wouldnt that have been nice? And I didnt even mention all the blend door issues that ran clear through the 5 year production. Ya think they could have figured out how to fix that over 5 years? To their credit, they jumped on the front brake caliper problem rather quickly, but that may have been considered a safety and potentially a liability problem.
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-22-2019, 09:43 AM
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avoiding valve seat drops-preventative measures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueseasons View Post
I dont know where you got the 88%. But not 100% of dropped valve seats are reported, anywhere.


The poll is pinned. Go have a peek.
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-22-2019, 07:28 PM
blueseasons
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I have looked at that poll. Thats a random sampling of a small fraction of the WJ's produced worldwide and hardly statistically relevant. How many WJ members are on this forum? How many forum members with WJ's own 4.7's? How many of the roughly 1.5 million WJ's that were made were 4.7's? How many of the 4.7's WJ's ended up in the wrecking yard for some reason before a valve seat dropped. I dont know the answer to any of those questions and without that, we can't claim any value to the information that poll provides. Help me out here if I am wrong.



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