Another DW thread, but wait... - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
Reech
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2001 WJ 
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Sheppard AFB
Posts: 77
Another DW thread, but wait...

Summary - 01 WJ has developed DW. Lots of new/fairly new parts, not sure where to start. Detailed in post.

So I'm fairly mechanically inclined with a reasonable amount of tools at my disposal. I am lacking a proper place to work as I am on a military base but as long as it can be completed in a single day, the local O'Reilly's allows me to use their back parking lot. So here's the deal:

01 WJ Limited 4.8 NV247 with a RC 4" LA Kit and RC Dual SS
~10K miles on:
-Lift Kit and SS (Also RC adjustable track bar)
-rear bearings, seals, sway bar bushings
-front hubs, rotors and pads, upper and lower BJ's, L&R drag link ends
-Front Driveshaft U-joints (less than 5K on these)
-Alignment

Just replaced L&R tie rod ends about 300 miles ago. DW just started yesterday that was noticed. All the bushings look to be ok, but going to have a friend help me tomorrow with checking while turning the wheels on ground to see if there is any additional movement somewhere. I am planning on another alignment but when I replaced the tie rod ends I used a micrometer to measure the threads and got it within a mm of where it was. Still drives relatively straight down the road as it did after the initial alignment I had done when the lift was installed.

The SS shocks seem to still be working as they should. Took one off today and it still had lots of resistance in both directions. So it would seem that the SS has merely been masking the DW this whole time. So where should I start? Don't have endless funds and if it's anything too major will have to pay a shop to do it. Thanks in advance for any help!

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post #2 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 03:37 PM
dust906
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 56
Track bar / sway bar / drag link / tie rods / Uca / Lca

Thatís the suspension rebuilt
Iíd upgrade any bolts that are loose. Track bar usually can be upgraded to 1/4 inch bolts depending on what Jeep. There should be zero play with the bushing bolts.


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post #3 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 03:37 PM
007matman
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First.. Get rid of that crappy RC Trac-Bar and get a JKS with KOR bushings. Torque everything down to the proper spec and let us know what happens.

Iron Rock Off-road used to make a decent trac-bar too. Not sure how they're doing right now as I remember hearing they were back and forth with quality.


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post #4 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 03:47 PM
007matman
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The RC trac-bar is hollow and has a ton of flex. The JKS is much more beefy and has a better design overall..

I messed around with the RC bar for a year trying to get it better. Swapped the Bushings as well as the Heim Joint too. It would be better for a while and then be horrible again.

The JKS was much better (even with the stock bushings). However, after a year of that they became worn and it loosened up somewhat. The KOR bushings made it solid as a rock (even better than the stock JKS bushings). They're a little more noisy now but no wobble.

I have the RC X-series SA kit.. I know RC quality and the trac-bar is their biggest opportunity.

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post #5 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
Reech
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The RC track bar came with the LA kit. I am planning on upgrading the kit pieces at a time. I can start with the track bar.

So track bar is most likely the culprit with the other replacements I've done so far then you think?
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post #6 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 04:04 PM
007matman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reech View Post
The RC track bar came with the LA kit. I am planning on upgrading the kit pieces at a time. I can start with the track bar.



So track bar is most likely the culprit with the other replacements I've done so far then you think?
YES!!

I'm sorry but that thing is horrible. RC should be sued for selling it.

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post #7 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
Reech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007matman View Post
YES!!

I'm sorry but that thing is horrible. RC should be sued for selling it.

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haha.. fair enough. I haven't been impressed with the quality of RC stuff. Feel the shocks are already going on the front and rear. I knew that going in that it wasn't the absolute best. Was hoping it would last longer being that I dont wheel hard or too often.
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post #8 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 04:11 PM
007matman
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On my kit, I have to admit that this is the only thing I've swapped out.. the rest of it has been on there since 2013!!

I did replace the Steering Stabilizers (yes, I have the dual RC setup just like you) this year. I've also rebuilt the lower CA's (just re-packed them). I probably have about 70K on this kit right now.

Not too bad.. I don't want it to sound like all RC stuff is bad (it isn't). But that trac-bar is just horrible though.

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post #9 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
Reech
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Just ordered the JKS. Should be here Monday. I don't remember too much about replacing it when we did the lift. Might be a stupid question, but should I leave it on the ground to change it out or get the weight off the axle? Like how much can I expect it to move when removing it to replace?
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post #10 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 04:38 PM
007matman
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It wont move a whole lot. However, you'll probably want to lift to make getting at the bolts easier. Make sure you tighten the jamb nut well as that's the most common error people make when installing.

The easiest way I've seen to adjust to the right length is to connect the axle side, drop it to the ground and have someone else use your steering wheel to adjust the left-right center of the axle, adjust the adjustable end to the right length, throw the bolt in there and lift it back up to get enough clearance to tighten well to spec.

Check your Trac-bar bolts to ensure the hole hasn't wallowed out. The frame side is notorious.

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post #11 of 25 Old 10-05-2019, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
Reech
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will do thanks for the help
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post #12 of 25 Old 10-06-2019, 09:29 PM
singletrack100
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One thing not mentioned in all of this is tires. I just spent 4 months tracking down DW on my 04 w/ 4.5" lift- replaced everything! Even replaced things that had been replaced months earlier during PM. I had a JKS track bar already, put KOR bushings in- nothing! Then replaced the track bar itself- Nothing. Replaced ball joints- nothing. Replaced tie rod and drag link ends that were only 7 months old- nothing! Went all over the place on upper and lower control arm measurements (caster angles)- nothing- Replaced steering gear box- nothing. Through all this I had it on alignment rack checking angles several times. Adjusted toe in 1/8" increments from 3/8 in to 1/4" out- nothing. Had it to an off-road suspension specialist- couldn't find anything, recommended ditching factory tie rod and drag link setups in favor of heavier DOM tubing and heims. Bought Trail Forged kit, installed and during process converted to over-the-knuckle- Nothing!

Several people were asking about my tires. Through all this I rotated tires 3 times with no change in DW. Tires were 50%, rotated every 3-3500 miles and not huge. I disbelieved it could be tire related as they ran smooth, steered good and I'd rotated 3 times with no change. In desperation I took my factory wheels and an old set of 245/75/17's I had run for a while, mounted them up and OMG!!! NO DW!

I bought a set of used 265/70/17's, mounted them onto my JK wheels and NO DW!!!! I am now having a new set of Goodyear Duratacs installed at Discount tomorrow morning.

Morale: I hit EVERY mechanical item mentioned in any DW thread multiple times, even when no play was ever visible. $1500 in parts and dozens of hours under my jeep, an entire summer lost to working on it, and it all came down to tires. If you have any way to try a different set of tires, try it.

Hope that helps, your mileage may vary.
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post #13 of 25 Old 10-07-2019, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
Reech
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Thank you for the input sir. I did consider the tires, however I do not have another 'easy' option at the moment. The only thing that turns me away from the tires is that I recently made an 8 hour non-stop ( cept for gas) trip on this exact setup with not a single wobble or unknown vibration. I do know that I have a slight front driveline vibration due to a slightly off pinon angle that will be corrected when I take it to get aligned here in the coming weeks. I will most definitely keep the tires in mind though. I have a couple people here on base with jeeps as well that I might be able to swap with for a day if the track bar and alignment don't pan out. Thanks for the input
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post #14 of 25 Old 10-07-2019, 07:23 PM
Ravenbar
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First thing I'd to is get it professionally aligned. Somewhere I read that DW should never happen if the alignment is perfect. Being that you just changed the tie rod ends, that is the most likely culprit.



Tie rod ends won't make it not drive straight, as the difference is split between the 2 tires. What it will do is cause the tires to fight each other, which will result in DW in the right circumstances.

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post #15 of 25 Old 10-07-2019, 08:26 PM
gsxr800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singletrack100 View Post
One thing not mentioned in all of this is tires. I just spent 4 months tracking down DW on my 04 w/ 4.5" lift- replaced everything! Even replaced things that had been replaced months earlier during PM. I had a JKS track bar already, put KOR bushings in- nothing! Then replaced the track bar itself- Nothing. Replaced ball joints- nothing. Replaced tie rod and drag link ends that were only 7 months old- nothing! Went all over the place on upper and lower control arm measurements (caster angles)- nothing- Replaced steering gear box- nothing. Through all this I had it on alignment rack checking angles several times. Adjusted toe in 1/8" increments from 3/8 in to 1/4" out- nothing. Had it to an off-road suspension specialist- couldn't find anything, recommended ditching factory tie rod and drag link setups in favor of heavier DOM tubing and heims. Bought Trail Forged kit, installed and during process converted to over-the-knuckle- Nothing!

Several people were asking about my tires. Through all this I rotated tires 3 times with no change in DW. Tires were 50%, rotated every 3-3500 miles and not huge. I disbelieved it could be tire related as they ran smooth, steered good and I'd rotated 3 times with no change. In desperation I took my factory wheels and an old set of 245/75/17's I had run for a while, mounted them up and OMG!!! NO DW!

I bought a set of used 265/70/17's, mounted them onto my JK wheels and NO DW!!!! I am now having a new set of Goodyear Duratacs installed at Discount tomorrow morning.

Morale: I hit EVERY mechanical item mentioned in any DW thread multiple times, even when no play was ever visible. $1500 in parts and dozens of hours under my jeep, an entire summer lost to working on it, and it all came down to tires. If you have any way to try a different set of tires, try it.

Hope that helps, your mileage may vary.

I totally Feel your pain. I was in your shoes in January and emptying my wallet on parts. I literally rebuilt my entire front end and still had DW. Finally took it to Firestone where they have a roadforce tire balancing machine. Found I had 2 out of round tires and one was up front causing 2 months of my time and money. I had them put the 2 best tires up front and haven't had DW since.

02 Grand Cherokee 4.0 w/IRO 4" lift, Bilstein 5100, Adj TB, Skid Plate, 17" JK Moab w/Falken A/T3W
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