5.5 inch lifted road stability problem - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 43 Old 08-04-2014, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
veiri86
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5.5 inch lifted road stability problem

Hi,

I have 01 4.7 WJ, i lifted it 5.5 inch, coils without spacers, RE coils, with 5100 bilstein shocks and IRO Y arm, rear iro adjustable upper and lower control arms. I redid all the lift kit to make sure everything is tight as per specs, driveshafts are dialed properly so no vibes, TRE's all are fresh with new moog SS. I have 33" tires on it. I've just changed all the front ball joints, and i have addco sway bar front and rear with new links, so practically almost every thing is fresh and greased. I've done several alignments and all shows +3.5 caster, +0.13 toe in on both sides, so total +0.26 toe in, camber is good as well after changing ball joints, i don't remember the number but it showed green on in the alignment shop, but still i feel my Jeep is not stable, i feel like driving a boat over waves and changing lanes over 30 mph feels not safe and it is not stable over minor or big bumps as it feels like riding a wave. is it normal to feel that way with a lifted Jeep because of the IRO arm flex joints in the front and the rear upper?? Or it is not normal and i have to look into something else?? I tightened and cross check all the bolts

Sent from ME


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01' 4.7 Limited WJ 5" lifted, Rubicon Express 4.5" coil springs with IRO critical path setup and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), JKS HD tie rod (MOOG problem solver Ends), JKS HD drag link (Moog Probel solver Ends), 4.56 Yukon ring and pinion, Moog HD SSD107 Steering Stabilizer, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, Stillen slotted rotors all around with Stillen brake pads, IRO adjustable A-Arm, 3" all the way Kolak Exhaust with High flow Magnaflow Cat. Converter and Flowmaster Super 50 Muffler, 285/70R17 AT Kumho (33") on 17" BlackWheel rims 909B, K&N Cold air intake, Four nozzles Bosch injectors, and Flashpaq 3780.

03' 4.7 H.O WJ 3" lifted, OME HD with 0.5" Coil spacers and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), Moog Problem solver TRE's, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, IRO adjustable A-Arm, High flow magnaflow mini cats, high flow magnaflow cat, Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, 265/65R17 AT Yokohama on 17" Rays rims, and Flashpaq 3780
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post #2 of 43 Old 08-04-2014, 11:08 PM
SCAN-MAN
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I just installed a red headed steering gear box & must say it's my favorite upgrade...steering is tight again, dw gone!!
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post #3 of 43 Old 08-04-2014, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
veiri86
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Originally Posted by SCAN-MAN View Post
I just installed a red headed steering gear box & must say it's my favorite upgrade...steering is tight again, dw gone!!
The problem am facing is with the body of the Jeep itself as it feels unstable but definitely not DW

Sent from ME

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01' 4.7 Limited WJ 5" lifted, Rubicon Express 4.5" coil springs with IRO critical path setup and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), JKS HD tie rod (MOOG problem solver Ends), JKS HD drag link (Moog Probel solver Ends), 4.56 Yukon ring and pinion, Moog HD SSD107 Steering Stabilizer, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, Stillen slotted rotors all around with Stillen brake pads, IRO adjustable A-Arm, 3" all the way Kolak Exhaust with High flow Magnaflow Cat. Converter and Flowmaster Super 50 Muffler, 285/70R17 AT Kumho (33") on 17" BlackWheel rims 909B, K&N Cold air intake, Four nozzles Bosch injectors, and Flashpaq 3780.

03' 4.7 H.O WJ 3" lifted, OME HD with 0.5" Coil spacers and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), Moog Problem solver TRE's, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, IRO adjustable A-Arm, High flow magnaflow mini cats, high flow magnaflow cat, Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, 265/65R17 AT Yokohama on 17" Rays rims, and Flashpaq 3780
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post #4 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 12:21 AM
texlurch
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Try and find a front sway bar from an 04, or get an aftermarket Addco or Eibach.
If you don't do much hardcore flexing, an Addco rear as well.

Nevermind... I re-read and see you have bigger bars already.

What air pressure in the tires?

Just another old fart in a Jeep... watchout younguns!!!
RC LA, IRO 6 in springs, OTK, Bilsteins, Aussie, Eaton, RCV's, 242-SYE, hidden winch, JCR Stage 3, skidded and trussed & sleeved
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post #5 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 12:57 AM
SCAN-MAN
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Adj track bar?
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post #6 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 06:04 AM
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Its a combination of things. Floaty feeling could be something simple as tire pressure like texlurch mentioned, but more likely the result of improperly paired shocks & springs. I'm not familiar with RE coils, but if they're on the soft side, the Bilsteins may not be doing a great job of dampening the soft coil, or vice versa. The shocks need to be valved properly to match the springs or you'll get the cruise ship effect. For example, I ran IRO coils at one point with Bilstein 5100s and it resulted in a horrid cruise ship like ride. The tires I ran at that time had a softer sidewall as well, which certainly didn't help.

Also, your caster is on the low side, which contributes to a wandering-like steering feel, but you really can't do much about that in terms of an increase since it would result in an unhappy driveshaft (i.e. vibes).

Get us some more detail on those springs.

'02 WJ: 4.7L, 5", HP44/9", 231HD, tall & skinny KM2's

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post #7 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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I have JKS adjustable track bar with KOR bushings, and JKS tie rods and drag link.

The coils are rubicon express 4.5" which resulted 5.5" and now settled at 5" rear and 4.5" front after three months of mainly highway driving. The coil isolators are fresh. Tires are Kumho 285/70R17 AT I run them at 35 psi. I agree with you it is a combination of few things which i can't find any of them as my steering doesn't feel firm as well but there is no gap when i turn it. I have new Clayton 4.5 laying around planning to put four of them and see.

Sent from ME

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01' 4.7 Limited WJ 5" lifted, Rubicon Express 4.5" coil springs with IRO critical path setup and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), JKS HD tie rod (MOOG problem solver Ends), JKS HD drag link (Moog Probel solver Ends), 4.56 Yukon ring and pinion, Moog HD SSD107 Steering Stabilizer, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, Stillen slotted rotors all around with Stillen brake pads, IRO adjustable A-Arm, 3" all the way Kolak Exhaust with High flow Magnaflow Cat. Converter and Flowmaster Super 50 Muffler, 285/70R17 AT Kumho (33") on 17" BlackWheel rims 909B, K&N Cold air intake, Four nozzles Bosch injectors, and Flashpaq 3780.

03' 4.7 H.O WJ 3" lifted, OME HD with 0.5" Coil spacers and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), Moog Problem solver TRE's, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, IRO adjustable A-Arm, High flow magnaflow mini cats, high flow magnaflow cat, Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, 265/65R17 AT Yokohama on 17" Rays rims, and Flashpaq 3780
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post #8 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veiri86 View Post
I have JKS adjustable track bar with KOR bushings, and JKS tie rods and drag link.

The coils are rubicon express 4.5" which resulted 5.5" and now settled at 5" rear and 4.5" front after three months of mainly highway driving. The coil isolators are fresh. Tires are Kumho 285/70R17 AT I run them at 35 psi. I agree with you it is a combination of few things which i can't find any of them as my steering doesn't feel firm as well but there is no gap when i turn it. I have new Clayton 4.5 laying around planning to put four of them and see.

Sent from ME
At one time I had a set up about like you have, the main difference would be in the brand of shocks and springs. I did not experience what you are describing unless both sway bars were disconnected, even then it did not feel unsafe, it did however feel like piloting a boat in a following sea. The only time I would describe it as feeling unsafe was when the flex joint on the A arm failed.

The one common denominator I have noticed lately in threads about body roll or sloppy handling is 5100s, that could be just a coincidence or not. Also......Are you sure the springs are RE? Searching Rubicon Express I do not find a listing for WJ springs.
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post #9 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tollmtn View Post
At one time I had a set up about like you have, the main difference would be in the brand of shocks and springs. I did not experience what you are describing unless both sway bars were disconnected, even then it did not feel unsafe, it did however feel like piloting a boat in a following sea. The only time I would describe it as feeling unsafe was when the flex joint on the A arm failed.

The one common denominator I have noticed lately in threads about body roll or sloppy handling is 5100s, that could be just a coincidence or not. Also......Are you sure the springs are RE? Searching Rubicon Express I do not find a listing for WJ springs.
Hi Tollmtn,

I got the Rubicon Express from a vendor who had them before they discontinue the production of the lift kits and I got them from him, so at the moment they are not available. Anyhow, I've just put the new 4.5" Clayton Springs now; front and rear, and I went on a ride, I noticed no difference at all. Am starting to suspect the shocks and the IRO A-Arm flex joint the main contributor in the body instability, although the A-Arm is less than one month old and I cross checked it today and it is tight in a good shape. Concerning the front end instability, am suspecting the new Moog TRE's. Am really frustrated about the quality control of these products

R.I.P ratmonkey
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01' 4.7 Limited WJ 5" lifted, Rubicon Express 4.5" coil springs with IRO critical path setup and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), JKS HD tie rod (MOOG problem solver Ends), JKS HD drag link (Moog Probel solver Ends), 4.56 Yukon ring and pinion, Moog HD SSD107 Steering Stabilizer, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, Stillen slotted rotors all around with Stillen brake pads, IRO adjustable A-Arm, 3" all the way Kolak Exhaust with High flow Magnaflow Cat. Converter and Flowmaster Super 50 Muffler, 285/70R17 AT Kumho (33") on 17" BlackWheel rims 909B, K&N Cold air intake, Four nozzles Bosch injectors, and Flashpaq 3780.

03' 4.7 H.O WJ 3" lifted, OME HD with 0.5" Coil spacers and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), Moog Problem solver TRE's, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, IRO adjustable A-Arm, High flow magnaflow mini cats, high flow magnaflow cat, Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, 265/65R17 AT Yokohama on 17" Rays rims, and Flashpaq 3780
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post #10 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 11:36 AM
WXman
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I feel ya' man. Mine is like a tug boat...wondering all over the highway. It's not safe feeling at all on a windy day....haha I can't imagine a box truck being much different than this.

Current Jeep: '20 JT Gladiator Max Tow w/ mods

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post #11 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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I feel ya' man. Mine is like a tug boat...wondering all over the highway. It's not safe feeling at all on a windy day....haha I can't imagine a box truck being much different than this.
I started to have a feeling that any lifted truck over 3" should feel like a boat, and most of these who say that after installing the +4" lift kit the Jeep drives better than stock and more firm and stable, they are just exaggerating or their Jeeps when they were stock were wrecked.

Am really frustrated

R.I.P ratmonkey
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01' 4.7 Limited WJ 5" lifted, Rubicon Express 4.5" coil springs with IRO critical path setup and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), JKS HD tie rod (MOOG problem solver Ends), JKS HD drag link (Moog Probel solver Ends), 4.56 Yukon ring and pinion, Moog HD SSD107 Steering Stabilizer, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, Stillen slotted rotors all around with Stillen brake pads, IRO adjustable A-Arm, 3" all the way Kolak Exhaust with High flow Magnaflow Cat. Converter and Flowmaster Super 50 Muffler, 285/70R17 AT Kumho (33") on 17" BlackWheel rims 909B, K&N Cold air intake, Four nozzles Bosch injectors, and Flashpaq 3780.

03' 4.7 H.O WJ 3" lifted, OME HD with 0.5" Coil spacers and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), Moog Problem solver TRE's, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, IRO adjustable A-Arm, High flow magnaflow mini cats, high flow magnaflow cat, Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, 265/65R17 AT Yokohama on 17" Rays rims, and Flashpaq 3780
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post #12 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veiri86 View Post
I started to have a feeling that any lifted truck over 3" should feel like a boat, and most of these who say that after installing the +4" lift kit the Jeep drives better than stock and more firm and stable, they are just exaggerating or their Jeeps when they were stock were wrecked.

Am really frustrated
Oh, come on. You mean you don't believe all the "better than stock" comments?

The dirty little secret is that the WJ geometry isn't great even from the factory. Add 5.5" of lift, and that poor geometry is accentuated. Unless you're in a position to fabricate complete new bracketry front & rear to optimize suspension and steering, best thing to do is cut and lower the lift height (to run what size tire you want) to maintain a lower COG. Dropping it to, say 4" ish should make a significant difference. And, obviously, pair those Clayton springs with a properly valved shock so they work in harmony and not result in the underdampening effect that you are now experiencing.

'02 WJ: 4.7L, 5", HP44/9", 231HD, tall & skinny KM2's

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post #13 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, come on. You mean you don't believe all the "better than stock" comments?

The dirty little secret is that the WJ geometry isn't great even from the factory. Add 5.5" of lift, and that poor geometry is accentuated. Unless you're in a position to fabricate complete new bracketry front & rear to optimize suspension and steering, best thing to do is cut and lower the lift height (to run what size tire you want) to maintain a lower COG. Dropping it to, say 4" ish should make a significant difference. And, obviously, pair those Clayton springs with a properly valved shock so they work in harmony and not result in the underdampening effect that you are now experiencing.
Most probably I will take your advice and go that route, just take the lift down to 4" and put 265/70R17 instead of the current 33" because it sucks to feel exhausted before arriving to any trail because of the stress trying to control the Jeep on the way to the trail as the nearest trail is 2 hours driving far.

R.I.P ratmonkey
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01' 4.7 Limited WJ 5" lifted, Rubicon Express 4.5" coil springs with IRO critical path setup and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), JKS HD tie rod (MOOG problem solver Ends), JKS HD drag link (Moog Probel solver Ends), 4.56 Yukon ring and pinion, Moog HD SSD107 Steering Stabilizer, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, Stillen slotted rotors all around with Stillen brake pads, IRO adjustable A-Arm, 3" all the way Kolak Exhaust with High flow Magnaflow Cat. Converter and Flowmaster Super 50 Muffler, 285/70R17 AT Kumho (33") on 17" BlackWheel rims 909B, K&N Cold air intake, Four nozzles Bosch injectors, and Flashpaq 3780.

03' 4.7 H.O WJ 3" lifted, OME HD with 0.5" Coil spacers and Bilstien 5100 shocks all around, JKS adjustable Trackbar (KOR bushings), Moog Problem solver TRE's, IRO Front drive shaft conversion, IRO adjustable A-Arm, High flow magnaflow mini cats, high flow magnaflow cat, Flowmaster Super 44 muffler, 265/65R17 AT Yokohama on 17" Rays rims, and Flashpaq 3780
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post #14 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by veiri86 View Post
Hi Tollmtn,

I got the Rubicon Express from a vendor who had them before they discontinue the production of the lift kits and I got them from him, so at the moment they are not available. Anyhow, I've just put the new 4.5" Clayton Springs now; front and rear, and I went on a ride, I noticed no difference at all. Am starting to suspect the shocks and the IRO A-Arm flex joint the main contributor in the body instability, although the A-Arm is less than one month old and I cross checked it today and it is tight in a good shape. Concerning the front end instability, am suspecting the new Moog TRE's. Am really frustrated about the quality control of these products
Your tire psi is to low if those are LT rated tires,try and bump up to 38-45psi.Just the nature of the WJ suspension the higher you go the less "stable" it feels.The RE coils are actually pretty firm coils,I run them on my SFA KJ(front ZJ 4.5" coils) and have had zero sag in 4 years and my JEEP is 6000lbs+.You got mismatched shocks and coils.Bilstiens are on the soft side,you should have the matching RE shocks.

I have Bilstiens 7100 series shocks on the rear of mine in the stiffest valving and they are still to soft to dampen the rear OME 864 coils correctly but it's not terrible and no ill effects since they do a okay job.The front is rock solid with RE coils and RE nitro shocks(matched set for a ZJ).

'02 Liberty sitting on 35" tires,HP44,RockJock60,and AtlasII t-case
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post #15 of 43 Old 08-05-2014, 10:53 PM
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Im having the same Issue.My spring perches are rotted out and thought that might be a big part of my problem (iro repair perches are on the way) So will bad spring perches cause wandering? I also noticed one of my tires has slung off the balancing weights.
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