2004 Jeep WJ 4.7 vin N - coolant temp question - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 20 Old 06-16-2019, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
valen1972
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2004 Jeep WJ 4.7 vin N - coolant temp question

So the saga continues on me finding and fixing all the missing/broken items from the last owner on this WJ. I just replaced the radiator and used the HOAT coolant, did a proper bleed, inspected the lower hose (spring is intact) and sent it off to the shop to replace the valve lash/rockers for the annoying tick. I got it back today and took it on about a 170 mile trip on the interstate (85 miles each direction) and have some questions about what I am seeing temp-wise.

Notes to keep in mind: I live in Florida and the temp was around 90 to 91 degrees with pretty decent humidity. There was no towing of any kind going on and in the jeep was just me and a passenger. I have the 4.7 V8 with 4wd (545rfe transmission, fluid cooled via radiator). The AC was on and I have the hydraulic fan. The fan seems to work as expected, around 500 rpm when running most of the time, but when it gets hot enough to kick in...... you can definitely tell, super fast. Oh and the AC cooler fins look good and no obstructions we can see (no mudding with this jeep....... yet).

In the city both before and after leaving the interstate it pegged temp around 208-210........ on the highway it was 212-215 + or - a couple degrees (highest was around first tick to the right of 210). Never reached higher than that. SO first question - is this within the normal operating temp? I have looked around the forums and google and it varies wildly on the forums, some say up to 220 under load or at highway speeds, others say higher, still others say the sky will fall along with your valve seats if 220 is ever reached.......... and second question why would the highway temp be higher than stop and go temp?

Thanks in advance!

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post #2 of 20 Old 06-16-2019, 01:31 AM
Uniblurb
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I have the same 04 4.7 set-up you do. With 90-91F, high Florida humidity, and AC on high I wouldn't say you're overheating while within normal range around 210. The few temps difference could just be your coolant temp sensor, the dash gauge, thermostat, etc, but could be accurate.

You would think at freeway speeds the temps would drop some vs city driving. Are you running larger tires and how many miles are on your 04? Believe I'd try burping the air out of it again. I've also seen some of the newer aftermarket thermostats and even OE ones cause it to run a little hotter. But I installed a new OE/Mopar thermostat and water pump on my 4.7 last year and the temps stayed the same at just under 210 most of the time.

96 4.0 ZJ Laredo, 2004 4.7L WJ Limited, 96 4.0 XJ (son's)


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post #3 of 20 Old 06-16-2019, 04:35 AM
paulvon
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For what I have been able to put together the valve seat problem did not happen when the Jeep is running but when it is turned off and cools down.

The build up of sludge acts as insulation and causes uneven cooling causes a heat soaking event and this is why the valve seat drops.

Three things that can be done:
First, after finishing a drive prior to turning engine off let it run for extra 30 seconds. More of just got off highway or running a/c
Second, use synthetic oil to prevent sludge build up.
Third, install a filter to catch any contamination in the power steering fluid to extend life of the cooling fan.


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post #4 of 20 Old 06-16-2019, 08:11 AM
JeppeWJ
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Hi , I have the same engine , 4.7. After changing radiator, water pump , thermostat and swapping to an electric fan, my temperature gauge is always steady in the middle, slightly before 210. It never climbs up when the car is moving .. only at idle before the electric fan kicks on.
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post #5 of 20 Old 06-16-2019, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
valen1972
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Hey Uniblurb, thanks again for replying....... tires are stock, will try burping again as well as a drive on highway with my bluedriver....... see what the true temps are.
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post #6 of 20 Old 06-16-2019, 12:12 PM
HarryH3
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Isn't it the '04 model year that got the pseudo-temp-gauge? I seem to remember that they work more like an idiot light than as a true temp gauge. If the fan is kicking in high enough that you can hear it in the cab, then something isn't right. I've never heard mine unless I had it in "airplane mode" by disconnecting the temp sender. It does speed up a bit when the a/c is on, but it's still very quiet. It will be interesting to see what you find with the scanner.

My '01 always hangs just barely to the left of the 210 mark while on the highway. When I stop after such a run, and idle at a light, it will creep just barely to the other side of the line for about a minute, then go back to the left again.
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post #7 of 20 Old 06-16-2019, 02:47 PM
Uniblurb
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It's the oil pressure gauge on later year WJ's which has the dummy unit/sender and works like an idiot light rather than the temp gauge.

PS. sounds like a plan valen and believe I may have just checked the bleeder plug for air coming out a 2nd time after working on or draining the cooling system.

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post #8 of 20 Old 06-17-2019, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
valen1972
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UniBlurb, so I bled and burped it again, no air at all and the fluid was right at the bleed screw level. For grins we also pressure tested the system again held pressure with no leak down. Then started the jeep with pressure tester attached and at pressure to see if there was any headgasket leak (grasping at straws here) and no rhythmic increases in pressure. I also hooked up my spill proof funnel and ran it for a good 20 min with and without heater on, no air bubbles at all through the funnel.

Hit the road this time with the bluedriver, ambient temp was a near 100% humidity 88-89 degrees, AC on. Stayed at 208-212 in the city and as high as 222 on the highway, we were rolling at speeds between 70 and 85 (diagnosing yet another issue - bad vibration at 70+ - ruled out tires and hubs already). I am hesitant to think this is normal temp but I'm stuck here.......... then again I could be paranoid at this juncture......... thermostat?
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post #9 of 20 Old 06-17-2019, 10:51 AM
jtpeters
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I think it would be worth a shot to replace the thermostat.

2004 Jeep Overland WJ 4.7 H.O. (Bought new in Oct 2003)
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post #10 of 20 Old 06-17-2019, 02:24 PM
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I'm in the swap radiator camp on this... The t-stat is working else it would have rapidly overheated after a few mins on the highway.
For highway travel, if it is overheating then and only then, it's a circulation issue from the radiator.

If you want to confirm this, next time you go on the highway and it gets to 220 or more, run your heat blower on full blast and see if that begins to bring the temp back down. If it does, you can be confident that the radiator is not circulating enough because the HVAC system is then acting like a supplemental radiator.
My story on this: https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310...oo-hot-430453/

'04 Freedom Edition HO & '04 Overland HO (previous '00 Laredo 4.7)
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post #11 of 20 Old 06-17-2019, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
valen1972
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DoubleE, radiator is a week or so old............. bad radiator from the supplier?
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post #12 of 20 Old 06-18-2019, 06:28 AM
Double E
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Crap...apologies. I skipped the radiator swap in your post, just saw the coolant change. Unlikely to be bad out of the box, especially since the resulting temps have not really changed from the prior radiator.
The water pumps on these things do not fail in that they stop moving fluid. More often they just weep from the bearing seal.
I'm still thinking the t-stat is working and even if not, they typically fail "open" these days if they do fail. Again, if it failed closed, you'd be nuclear-hot in a hurry.

Normal op temps hover between 206 and 210. It doesn't get hotter than that unless I'm heading for higher altitudes (5000 ft plus) and only then while having to crawl on gravel mountain roads. Not even highway towing gets it hotter anymore.
My temp reading comes from a plug in bluetooth unit to the OBD port and linked to my android so I get real numbers instead of guessing what the gauge says.

That said, it could be worth it to get a new temp sensor just to rule out it being off.

Few questions...
What is the mix ratio you are using?
What oil are you using?
How many miles?
You mentioned missing/broken items from the last owner...by chance did they mess with or remove the radiator shroud and side air deflectors on either side of the radiator? They direct air into the radiator instead of letting it pass into the engine compartment.
Do you have any fog lights in front of the radiator?

Still do the hvac/heat test to find out what you are able to do to change it. I would also get a bluetooth connection to the OBD port so you can really see what is really happening. I think it was about $30 there is no subscription, the app is free and it will clear codes and can move from car to car.

'04 Freedom Edition HO & '04 Overland HO (previous '00 Laredo 4.7)
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post #13 of 20 Old 06-18-2019, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
valen1972
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DoubleE, no issues man........... so with my bluedriver, live temp was up to 222 on the highway. See the answers below to your questions as for thermostat I agree with how they should be failing if it is and I am not sure thats it yet. As for side air deflectors there are none but I think that is the way it should be based on what I see for the 4.7 with the hydraulic fan. If you know of something I am missing that is not shown in the service details I have let me know. I have found a few things missing from the drawings that I have on my Jeep. Still grasping at straws here..........

What is the mix ratio you are using? I had bought online 2 gallons of HOAT and one was concentrate and the other 50/50 instead of sending them back and getting 2 50/50 I used what I had, concentrate first and 50/50 to top it off.
What oil are you using? Valvoline red 10w30
How many miles? 118k on the odometer but the motor has clearly been out before, probably changed. The shop I had do the valve lash and rockers found one style of rockers on one head, a different style on the other, one head had a plastic valve cover, the other aluminum. Couple that with the fdact we found the transmission dust cover, transmission alignment dowls, and engine to transmission structural collar all missing....... points to an engine swap so unknown how many miles on the motor....... after the valve lash and rocker job the motor is super quiet and sounds new
You mentioned missing/broken items from the last owner...by chance did they mess with or remove the radiator shroud and side air deflectors on either side of the radiator? see picThey direct air into the radiator instead of letting it pass into the engine compartment.
Do you have any fog lights in front of the radiator? nothing mounted in front of the radiator
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post #14 of 20 Old 06-18-2019, 01:10 PM
paulvon
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What are your engine rpm at 50, 60, and 70 mph?

At what speed do you start to see the temp start to creep up?

If you were running at 70 mph how long would it take for the temp to get to a normal range if you were not moving. For example pull into a rest area.

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post #15 of 20 Old 06-18-2019, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
valen1972
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paulvon, I did not check the RPM at 50 and 60 but at 70 or 75 it was about 2300........ as for cooling off, it pretty much does almost immediately upon leaving the interstate, whether stopped at a light on the off ramp or driving at city speeds........
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