2004 Grand Cherokee 4.0 General Questions - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-21-2017, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
BeefyJeep
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2004 Grand Cherokee 4.0 General Questions

I will start by saying I am not a car expert by any means (obviously) I'm pretty novice.
But I am actively trying to make up for lost time and learn about cars.

I am trying to do some moderate maintenance on my 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee that has a 4.0L straight six.
This is technically my first car, I got it when I was 18, I am now 23.
While I have taken moderate care of the car (Definitely went overboard on the wax, yet it still found a way to rust), I never really focused on the engine aside from the regular oil/fluid change.

Now I was never aware of this until recently, but apparently the 4.0L in an 04 is pretty rare?

I am going to be running seafoam through the engine pretty soon, prior to my oil change.
It has 225,000 miles on it, and I'm guessing it's never been seafoamed before.
I know you can run it through the vacuum hose, but that thing is ON there. So I was thinking about running it through the intake manifold. Instead of removing that box over the manifold, can I just take off that big hose (which I believe is the hose from the air filter?), take a long skinny funnel, stick it through where the airhose used to be, and just run the seafoam through it?

Also speaking of rust, my rear left wheelwell is rusting pretty bad. I've bondo'd it twice now, and it ain't stopping. It's gotten to the point where the whole sheetmetal needs to be replaced. Though I'm not worried about that until the spring, much too cold out. Where can I find a replacement panel? Does the panel actually come in purchasable segments? Or do I need to go to a junkyard with a metal cutter? Same goes for the left, very bottom trim.

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post #2 of 13 Old 11-21-2017, 08:05 PM
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First of all, welcome!
Secondly, to answer your questions.
1) I highly doubt 4.0 is pretty rare in an 2004. If I知 wrong, I知 sure I値l be corrected shortly lol.
2) I know nothing about seafoaming.
3) there are numerous websites that sell replacement sheet metal. It値l be in two pieces. One is for the 電og leg which is the lower part. The other is the upper part and will finish out the wheelwell.

Personally, I would not go to the junkyard with a metal cutter because there痴 no guarantee that the WJs there are in better shape.
My 2004 has a rust spot right above the trim on the left rear wheel well as well.


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post #3 of 13 Old 11-21-2017, 08:12 PM
Mattyjm
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May I ask why you feel the need to seafoam it at all? That may be a decision that comes back to haunt you very quickly.

How is your engine running and performing? What kind of mpgs are you getting, and don't go by the OIC or EVIC. Use your calculator between fills to get an accurate number.

Sometimes, when our beloved 4.0Ls get flushed or seafoamed, material can become dislodged from certain places and get lodged in other bad places.

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post #4 of 13 Old 11-21-2017, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mattyjm View Post
May I ask why you feel the need to seafoam it at all? That may be a decision that comes back to haunt you very quickly.

How is your engine running and performing? What kind of mpgs are you getting, and don't go by the OIC or EVIC. Use your calculator between fills to get an accurate number.

Sometimes, when our beloved 4.0Ls get flushed or seafoamed, material can become dislodged from certain places and get lodged in other bad places.
While it runs, it's a bit rougher, notceably (but not horribly) louder, and it definitely sucks more gas. I used to get a week and a half/maybe 2 weeks on a tank, now I'm lucky if I get a week. On the freeway, milage is TERRIBLE, driving 3 hours will take 75% of a full tank.
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post #5 of 13 Old 11-22-2017, 01:27 AM
rep-tile
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Seafoam is ****. Your engine only got that far with oil and gas. Just put oil and gas in it, that's it. No car manufacturer would require or recommend Seafoam. Do use top tier gas to get the necessary level of detergent needed in modern fuel injected vehicles.

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post #6 of 13 Old 11-22-2017, 07:12 AM
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Personally, I've never used Seaform, and never will.

If your 4.0 is running rough, change the sparkplugs. Put some good quality fuel system cleaner in your gas tank. (New injectors are an option, but run about $60 each, as I recall.) Replace the fuel filter/ regulator. Obviously, new air filter and oil filter with oil change. Check vacuum hoses for cracks and leaks.
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post #7 of 13 Old 11-22-2017, 07:47 AM
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Hold off on the seafoam. Seafoam has a use BUT not a recommendation at this time.
I would suggest you get a SCAN of the system EVEN if the CEL is off, do not know till we look.
Tell us how is it running ? How is the coolant? Transmission fluid?

For rust panels try a google "jeep grand Cherokee rust repair panels"

PS if you already have the seafoam, add it to a full tank of fuel...
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-22-2017, 09:09 AM
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I wouldn't even think about the seafoam. Have you done regular maintenance as far as plugs/wires/filter etc? If youre going to address the problems, then just troubleshoot the cause of the issues. If anything, these are things that need to be done anyway. Its like if you have a radiator leak and you try to fix it with stop leak instead of just replacing it. Your just putting a band-aid on the wound. I agree with Rep-tile, don't put anything in your GC that wasn't in it from the factory.

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post #9 of 13 Old 11-22-2017, 10:01 AM
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I'm a big fan of removing carbon build up from the intake manifold, valves and combustion chamber. However I view it as regular maintenance, not necessarily as a fix for anything.

Regular use of top tier fuel and occasional use of a fuel system cleaner is the way to go, however after that many miles you will still likely have carbon buildup in those places. Whether or not it makes a big difference in a low compression engine such as the 4.0, I'm not sure.

However I prefer using Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner vs. Seafoam. It's easier to use (aerosol can vs. non-aerosol) and usually a bit cheaper. I can generally get the Mopar stuff from a local dealer for about $8 per can, compared to $10 per can for Seafoam. I run a can of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner through each of my Jeeps, and my Ram, once a year.

Remember, carbon build up isn't just comprised of dried up fuel, it's also tiny dirt particles that make it past the air filter and oil vapors from the PCV/CCV system.

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This is easily the worst post, and thread, I have ever seen in 7 years of being on JF.
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-27-2017, 07:21 PM
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I agree with many above, seafoam and similar products can wreck havoc on a good running engine. Use a good oil and consistent use of MMO in your fuel (marvel mystery oil). Being a 4.0 I definitely recommend a good heavy duty engine oil, I have run Rotella for many years with great used oil analysis results. Of you have no leaks present go with Rotella T6 in 5/40, if you leak go with Rotella T5 in 10/30. Pennzoil high mileage is a great choice also in 5/30 or 5/40, these 4.0 motors love a 40wt oil.

Maintenance is key...
Many of these were mentioned but,
Spark plugs (must be Champion copper core)
Fuel filter
Good oil and filter (NAPA gold filters (WIX) work well)
MMO in your fuel

TC fluid change
Front/rear differential fluid change (I have always used AMSOIL severe gear)
Transmission fluid and filter change (NOT a flush)
Proper tire PSI and rotation

Jeeps are very maintenance demanding for best outcomes... That being said my current WJ still gets the same MPG, runs and drives like it did with 20k mi on it and Im at 160k mi now

QUOTE=billzcat1;wsar10 is right on point on this oil thread - as usual. Anyone reading this would be well-served taking his advice.


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post #11 of 13 Old 11-28-2017, 06:28 PM
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No to the seafoam. Try to stay away from do-it-all products like seafoam and mmo. They have limited use cases and your 4.0 isn't one. @rep-tile has it right and that should be the end of the thread as far as anyone is concerned with seafoaming et. al.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsar10 View Post
...consistent use of MMO in your fuel (marvel mystery oil).
Why advocate for MMO in fuel? The best products that clean up carbon deposits are ones that have PEA (polyether amine). The two products with the highest concentration of PEA are Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus and Gumout Regane, both having around 50% PEA. Where I disagree with Jeeples, is that if you are using top tier fuel then adding these fuel system cleaners does not do much since they already contain PEA detergents. And since MMO doesn't have PEA in it, it's at best not up to par of what these other easily accessible products are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsar10 View Post
Being a 4.0 I definitely recommend a good heavy duty engine oil, I have run Rotella for many years with great used oil analysis results. Of you have no leaks present go with Rotella T6 in 5/40, if you leak go with Rotella T5 in 10/30. Pennzoil high mileage is a great choice also in 5/30 or 5/40, these 4.0 motors love a 40wt oil.
They do like 40 weights but are not necessary and hurts fuel economy so ultimately a waste of time. I have hated how much of a slug my 4.0 is with this 10w40, I cannot wait for this 7500 mile OCI to be done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsar10 View Post
Maintenance is key...
Many of these were mentioned but,
Spark plugs (must be Champion copper core)
Fuel filter
Good oil and filter (NAPA gold filters (WIX) work well)
MMO in your fuel
Any oil is "good" so long as he isn't going to mom-n-pop shops that are selling non-api rated oil (99.99999% chance unlikely). Same applies for filters.

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post #12 of 13 Old 12-01-2017, 03:57 PM
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[QUOTE=wjjeep19;39308185]No to the seafoam. Try to stay away from do-it-all products like seafoam and mmo. They have limited use cases and your 4.0 isn't one. @rep-tile has it right and that should be the end of the thread as far as anyone is concerned with seafoaming et. al.


Why advocate for MMO in fuel? The best products that clean up carbon deposits are ones that have PEA (polyether amine). The two products with the highest concentration of PEA are Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus and Gumout Regane, both having around 50% PEA. Where I disagree with Jeeples, is that if you are using top tier fuel then adding these fuel system cleaners does not do much since they already contain PEA detergents. And since MMO doesn't have PEA in it, it's at best not up to par of what these other easily accessible products are.


They do like 40 weights but are not necessary and hurts fuel economy so ultimately a waste of time. I have hated how much of a slug my 4.0 is with this 10w40, I cannot wait for this 7500 mile OCI to be done.


Any oil is "good" so long as he isn't going to mom-n-pop shops that are selling non-api rated oil (99.99999% chance unlikely). Same applies for
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not even sure where to begin explaining how absolutely incorrect you are... Or the time currently.
You must be quite new to Jeeps in comparison to many. Those of us who have been in and around Jeeps for 20 years know better. The claim for MMO in a 4.0 is about the 4mpg gain it creates in a well maintained Jeep. Years and years of evidence and thousands and thousands of people with the same results, myslef included, weighs a bit more then your fact less claim of it being pointless. The only question that ever came up over the years was "what is it doing to the plugs", therefore several years back I did a write up here with pictures of how plugs respond.

Much like your response regarding MMO, I personally find it foolish to offer bad oild advice. Will a 4.0 run on anything? Absolutely! Have years of UOA's provided lower wear numbers with HDEO's, heavier 30wt and 40wts? Absolutely! Are there PCMO's that produce similar findings? Sure. A Used Oil Analysis removes opinion and leaves only the facts. You should really research these things a bit, many of us did not put so much time and effort into this over the years for no reason.... If your willing to sacrifice protection of your cast iron, flat tappet style engine.... for fuel economy, maybe a Prius would be a better fit....

However I will say with the way BITOG forum does their archives, its hard to find UOA's from when we were all testing the HDEO theory in a 4.0

QUOTE=billzcat1;wsar10 is right on point on this oil thread - as usual. Anyone reading this would be well-served taking his advice.


-03 WJ laredo 4.0 120k a few minor mods
-93 XJ 5spd, 3" zone lift

Last edited by wsar10; 12-01-2017 at 07:34 PM. Reason: Edited because yet another JF glitch did not quote the quoted txt properly
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post #13 of 13 Old 12-01-2017, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsar10 View Post

Not even sure where to begin explaining how absolutely incorrect you are... Or the time currently.
You must be quite new to Jeeps in comparison to many. Those of us who have been in and around Jeeps for 20 years know better. The claim for MMO in a 4.0 is about the 4mpg gain it creates in a well maintained Jeep. Years and years of evidence and thousands and thousands of people with the same results, myslef included, weighs a bit more then your fact less claim of it being pointless. The only question that ever came up over the years was "what is it doing to the plugs", therefore several years back I did a write up here with pictures of how plugs respond.

Much like your response regarding MMO, I personally find it foolish to offer bad oild advice. Will a 4.0 run on anything? Absolutely! Have years of UOA's provided lower wear numbers with HDEO's, heavier 30wt and 40wts? Absolutely! Are there PCMO's that produce similar findings? Sure. A Used Oil Analysis removes opinion and leaves only the facts. You should really research these things a bit, many of us did not put so much time and effort into this over the years for no reason.... If your willing to sacrifice protection of your cast iron, flat tappet style engine.... for fuel economy, maybe a Prius would be a better fit....

However I will say with the way BITOG forum does their archives, its hard to find UOA's from when we were all testing the HDEO theory in a 4.0
I am not new to jeeps.

Exactly, there are claims and to suggest any over the shelf product could result in a 4mpg increase is absurd. You claim to read BITOG (as do I) so you must be as thorough as I am. In that case would you like to show official studied tests that proved any over the shelf additive resulted in 4mpg without any fluctuations over long periods of time? It is not me with factless claims. There is a reason why top tier gas has PEA in it. You won't find PEA in MMO. People preach about using top tier gas and the common denominator is what? - PEA. I've tried them all, Seafoam, TC-W3, MMO, for months going to the same top tier gas station, same pump, and driving the exact same as I always do. Never did I even see a 1mpg average increase. At the end of the day people can use whatever they want, but making claims about a 4mpg increase based on an additive is not possible unless you have another underlying problem.

No, UOAs do not remove all opinions and frankly they aren't the end all be all.
- Certain oil formulations could conceivably throw bigger numbers on UOAs when there is actually LESS wear.

- The method of spectroscopy used by most UOAs doesn't always give a reliable indication of wear; you could easily have low numbers with big wear, or big numbers with low wear.

- Sometimes, switching oil brands or types can cause wear metals levels to spike briefly before settling out.

The fact of the matter is, that UOAs can give us an idea, and can certainly be the oil, but it is not 100% indicative that it is in fact the oil's problem.

I've been reading BITOG for years and have my own opinions. I agree with most of what your saying, but my opinion is that HTHS is what I care about. Anything with a HTHS of 3.3 or higher is my goal (API SL, ACEA A3/B3, ACEA A3/B4, any HDEO). Everyone likes to mention how flat tappets need the zinc and phos, yet they side-step the fact the low compression of the 4.0. High compression needs it, not the low compression 4.0, certainly not at the levels (1000 + ppm) that people are in such high kahoots for. Track/drag cars need the elevated levels, ours - not so much IMO.

If you care about flat tappets so much, how are you coping with the CK4/SN rating then, unless you are going out of your way to get CJ4 or CK (non api rated) oil?

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