Who here has come from a recent 4Runner? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 103 Old 01-10-2020, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
ceb1
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Who here has come from a recent 4Runner?

Why did you switch and what were your experiences?

Ride comfort on road?

Off road ability?

Reliability?

Features?

What do you miss?

What don't you miss?

Would you/will you switch back?

TIA

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post #2 of 103 Old 01-15-2020, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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So let me revise the question.


For those who have owner their car from new:


How many miles before you had a significant failure? I define a "significant failure" as something that either stops you dead in your tracks or requires an urgent trip to the dealer. Flat tires or running out of gas doesn't count. Dead battery only counts if it was self inflicted (left light on or the like).


Please mention what mods you had that may have (even peripherally) affected the failure.
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post #3 of 103 Old 01-15-2020, 01:06 PM
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I have not had a significant failure in 90,000 miles (9 years). I've had a weak tailgate strut replaced at about 50,000 miles and an oil pressure sensor replaced at about 80,000 miles at no additional cost. There were a couple recalls. This is an Overland model with plenty of bells a whistles.

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post #4 of 103 Old 01-15-2020, 04:37 PM
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2014 Limited Diesel with 90K miles

Out of pocket cost minus Maintenance stuff...
Replaced the headlights 3 times
I put truck tires on it around 40K.
Going to replace the brakes this summer
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post #5 of 103 Old 01-15-2020, 05:53 PM
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ello,

First post on here as I am a member of the other Jeep forum. I am also on the 4Runner.org forum and saw your question there first. I check the forums daily but typically don't respond but wanted to respond to your question as I may have some helpful insight. This is going to be a rather long post unfortunately so bare with me.

I traded in a 2018 4Runner SR5 Premium. At the time, I also owned a BMW coupe and the 4Runner was going to be for winter, etc. I ended up selling the BWW (I've owned several over the years) and so the 4Runner became my sole vehicle/daily driver. For many reasons, I decided I was going to own just one vehicle and wanted an SUV vs. a car/coupe for daily driving.

I had no issues with the 4Runner but it was very low mileage, however, as a daily driver, I began to resent/miss some of the features it was missing. I really didn't like the PT 4Wheel drive system and missed some features such as Blind Spot Monitoring, front/rear sensors, leather, upgraded entertainment system/functionality, heated steering wheel, etc. Some of those features are available (but not all) on the top Limited Trim. However, I just couldn't get over the looks of that trim model with all the plastic chrome, etc. and knew I would still have to spend even more to upgrade the wheels/tires, etc. on the Limited trim model (I upgraded the tires to Michelin Defenders on my SR5). And, unfortunately, you cannot get full-time 4Wheel drive on any other trim.

I previously owned a 2014 GC Summit and had no problems with it but didn't keep it long (I tend to trade often). However, I loved the features/luxury/value it offered. I did not like all the chrome on that model (the Satin option was not available yet to replace the bright chrome). But, I love the entertainment set-up and functionality and think it is the 2nd bast available after BMW's. It even has some features BMW doesn't such as the ability to delete XM stations I never listen to and make it easier/quicker to browse the stations I like.

A few of my big concerns between upgrading to another 4Runner and a GC was bulletproof reliability vs. the looks and features/luxury of the GC. If I decide to keep the GC for more than the std. warranty, I would definitely get an extended MOPAR warranty from one of the online dealers, especially with the air suspension. I went back and forth for a few months on which way to go. In the end I went with a 2020 GC in the High Altitude trim. With the HA Trim, it eliminates all the chrome and has nearly all the luxury features that the Top of the Line Summit has, including the superior HK stereo. I kind of deduced that being the final year of production for the WK2, I hope that most of the bugs have been worked out and the reliability is at least average or better. I could have got a 4Runner Limited for about the same $, but I just couldn't get over the appearance of that trim (so frustrating you can't get the luxury features and full-time 4Wheel drive in the better looking trims such as the OffRoad Premium). If I went with any of the other lower trims that have a great appearance, I would still have to upgrade the tires, stereo, etc. and still not have full-time 4Wheel drive. I did test out a 2020 Limited and was disappointed in the new entertainment set-up, there was a noticeable lag making changes on the screen and the JBL set-up didn't sound nearly as good or offer nearly as nice functionality as the GC which was important to me. And of course the GC rides significantly better than any 4Runner trim and I don't miss the "nose dive" and brakes that seem somewhat inherent in the 4Runner. One last thing, the 4Runner box on frame seems to still have issues with rust and living in the Northeast, that was a concern.

Don't get me wrong, I do really like 4Runners and may go back to one day but hope the next generation addresses some of the above issues I have with the current generation.

Hope this helps in your decision making.
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post #6 of 103 Old 01-15-2020, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TBLWK2 View Post
ello,

First post on here as I am a member of the other Jeep forum. I am also on the 4Runner.org forum and saw your question there first. I check the forums daily but typically don't respond but wanted to respond to your question as I may have some helpful insight. This is going to be a rather long post unfortunately so bare with me.

I traded in a 2018 4Runner SR5 Premium. At the time, I also owned a BMW coupe and the 4Runner was going to be for winter, etc. I ended up selling the BWW (I've owned several over the years) and so the 4Runner became my sole vehicle/daily driver. For many reasons, I decided I was going to own just one vehicle and wanted an SUV vs. a car/coupe for daily driving.

I had no issues with the 4Runner but it was very low mileage, however, as a daily driver, I began to resent/miss some of the features it was missing. I really didn't like the PT 4Wheel drive system and missed some features such as Blind Spot Monitoring, front/rear sensors, leather, upgraded entertainment system/functionality, heated steering wheel, etc. Some of those features are available (but not all) on the top Limited Trim. However, I just couldn't get over the looks of that trim model with all the plastic chrome, etc. and knew I would still have to spend even more to upgrade the wheels/tires, etc. on the Limited trim model (I upgraded the tires to Michelin Defenders on my SR5). And, unfortunately, you cannot get full-time 4Wheel drive on any other trim.

I previously owned a 2014 GC Summit and had no problems with it but didn't keep it long (I tend to trade often). However, I loved the features/luxury/value it offered. I did not like all the chrome on that model (the Satin option was not available yet to replace the bright chrome). But, I love the entertainment set-up and functionality and think it is the 2nd bast available after BMW's. It even has some features BMW doesn't such as the ability to delete XM stations I never listen to and make it easier/quicker to browse the stations I like.

A few of my big concerns between upgrading to another 4Runner and a GC was bulletproof reliability vs. the looks and features/luxury of the GC. If I decide to keep the GC for more than the std. warranty, I would definitely get an extended MOPAR warranty from one of the online dealers, especially with the air suspension. I went back and forth for a few months on which way to go. In the end I went with a 2020 GC in the High Altitude trim. With the HA Trim, it eliminates all the chrome and has nearly all the luxury features that the Top of the Line Summit has, including the superior HK stereo. I kind of deduced that being the final year of production for the WK2, I hope that most of the bugs have been worked out and the reliability is at least average or better. I could have got a 4Runner Limited for about the same $, but I just couldn't get over the appearance of that trim (so frustrating you can't get the luxury features and full-time 4Wheel drive in the better looking trims such as the OffRoad Premium). If I went with any of the other lower trims that have a great appearance, I would still have to upgrade the tires, stereo, etc. and still not have full-time 4Wheel drive. I did test out a 2020 Limited and was disappointed in the new entertainment set-up, there was a noticeable lag making changes on the screen and the JBL set-up didn't sound nearly as good or offer nearly as nice functionality as the GC which was important to me. And of course the GC rides significantly better than any 4Runner trim and I don't miss the "nose dive" and brakes that seem somewhat inherent in the 4Runner. One last thing, the 4Runner box on frame seems to still have issues with rust and living in the Northeast, that was a concern.

Don't get me wrong, I do really like 4Runners and may go back to one day but hope the next generation addresses some of the above issues I have with the current generation.

Hope this helps in your decision making.
Unfortunately no .
As you know and mentioned, the 4R is bulletproof (but not rustproof) but is ancient, has lousy gas mileage but great resale.


The GC certainly isn't bulletproof (but doesn't rust as much) and is also pretty old (based on a what? 2009 MB chassis, but the creature comforts and driver assistance gear (and infotainment) has been updated. Like MB, the air suspension has a tendency to leak and droop. Gas mileage is far better than the 4R and resale is far worse.


I'm looking at a 50 mile commute in all weather conditions. It won't be my only car so I'll be driving my TSX wagon most of the time (that replaced a 335xi that was great when it ran) and I'm weighing reliability vs comfort and driving aids. It'll also be the hauler for the pooch in my avatar (in the hatch) and for that the 4R would have more room.


The decision isn't easy - especially when you hear the horror stories of failures, eating headlight bulbs (that aren't cheap and aren't covered under any warranty). Contrasting that are people like ColdCase with no failures in 90k miles.


While most failures aren't "broken down on the side of the road" failures, they do keep you on good terms with the service advisor - who don't have the best reputation.


And yes, the Limited is the way to go, but it'll take $3k in parts to make it look reasonable - along with a "downgrade" to "upgraded" 18" wheels over those awful 20's - but you have to change the wheels on most uplevel GCs as well (except Trailhawk maybe).


To get solid reliability, you need to buy new, then watch as depreciation takes the value down like a rock.



So yes, your insightful post has been very helpful -- but.....
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post #7 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 12:06 AM
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Do you off-road? If not, then why not consider e.g., the new Kia Telluride? Incredible value and chock full of features! I absolutely love my Trailhawk (40k miles, no issues), but if it wasnt for the fact that I need the off-roading capabilities and beat the crap out of it, Id go with something like the Kia.
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post #8 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 07:40 AM
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I cant comment on a 4runner but my WK2 has been pretty good, I do have the lifetime maxicare. When new they had to replace one of the rear 1/4 trim since it dint fit well. Also had one of the headlamp modules replace at about 1 yr old, one of the LED cats eye segment failed so it looked blue. Last month had the Hemi water pump done, it was leaking, so I ordered a T-stat and serp belt and they replaced under warranty, worked for me since I was about to change the coolant. I have done the transmission filter/pan, t-case, diffs and spark plugs, also changed the PS Fluid. Have a Volant cold air intake with the powercore Donaldson filter. also have dedicated set of wheel/snows ( nokians) for winter.
This is the wifes winter beater we bought in May of 15. Has been 100% reliable, obviously had to bring it in once I notied the slight antifreeze leak on the WP. Almost bought a Limited with the 3.6 last fall but opted for a Rubicon to have another summer toy.


Oh have 52K miles on it. it is an Overland with the Hemi.

86 Daytona 00 Durango 02 WJ
05 PT GT 06 PT GT 06 PT
15 WK2 17 Challenger 18 Sahara 20 Rubicon
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post #9 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 07:42 AM
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My nephew works as a tech at a honda-nissan-kia dealership. He says to never ever buy Kia. Kias are known for features and eye candy, but not reliability or durability. If you trade them off every two or three years and don't put much mileage on them, you should be OK.

Never Argue With An idiot. They'll Lower You To Their Level And Then Beat You With Experience!
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #10 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 07:57 AM
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I know a few techs at my local Dodge/jeep/Ram store, good freinds both with over 24 yrs experience. also a couple of other techs in there, one who came from the local huge Toyota store and another from Subaru. These guys can tell you all the wonderful things the fail on those makes. The local Toyota store is a brand new 4 yr old Tajmahol. The owner was forced by Toy to spend millions on this place, has like 60 bays in the service area. The gold plated show room, marble, all the crap I dont want to pay for in the price of my car! First thing owner did was suspend all pay raises for all the techs, jack up the hourly rate to 120/hr. He still knows friends working there who have not had a raise in 4 yrs, he calls it the flat rate upsell hell shop! The local Jeeps store is hourly, not flat rate and hourly rate is 85$. techs much happier!



Anyhow my two freind say the Grands, Rams and LX cars are pretty good, have the least amount of issues, especially the newer ones since they have worked all the bugs of them. My 17 SRT has been perfect so far not a single issue, and my two JLs havent had a problem as yet but they are relatively new. Of course I do most of my own maitnenance so I know they are properly maintained which goes a long way with relaibility.

86 Daytona 00 Durango 02 WJ
05 PT GT 06 PT GT 06 PT
15 WK2 17 Challenger 18 Sahara 20 Rubicon
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post #11 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceb1 View Post
So let me revise the question.


For those who have owner their car from new:


How many miles before you had a significant failure? I define a "significant failure" as something that either stops you dead in your tracks or requires an urgent trip to the dealer. Flat tires or running out of gas doesn't count. Dead battery only counts if it was self inflicted (left light on or the like).


Please mention what mods you had that may have (even peripherally) affected the failure.
Interesting topic. I have an '18 JGC Summit that I purchased new. Hemi V8. While I have not owned a 4Runner, I have had Toyota trucks in the past. I did look very closely at the new 4Runners prior to making the decision to purchase the Jeep.

I know that Toyota builds a quality product. However, in looking at them I was amazed at how cheap the interior materials were - so much low-grade plastics - nothing that felt like it was substantial or of quality. In closing the drivers door, the sound it made was a "ca ching" like sound - very hollow sounding and insubstantial sounding. The question in my mind was - "this is what is separating you from injury in a serious side collision...??" Then there was the outward visibility in the 4Runner - really poor. The height of the tops of the doors, the dash height, combined with the lower roofline made it feel like I was peering out of a bunker when driving it. I did not like the fact that it was an ancient design - and badly in need of a complete redo and modernization. The design / layout of the interior really put me off - completely illogical layout. (I've had many BMW's over the years, and appreciate the form follows function of their designs - a design philosophy completely absent in the Toyota. Everything in the interior of that 4Runner looked alien to me.)

Then there was the MSRP pricing which was no bargain - and the dealers were not offering any real substantial pricing discounts in my area.
As much as I wanted to like the Toyota - I just could not develop any appreciation for it.

I would caution you to not get too caught up in a lot of the negative nonsense that you may come across regarding the reliability of the Jeep Grand Cherokee. So much of what I read on this forum prior to purchasing the Jeep made me worried about what I might be facing. I made the decision to purchase it mainly on the recommendation from people I know that had JGC's and loved them - and their experiences with them did not parallel what was being conveyed in many instances in the forum.

My Jeep has been completely (100%) trouble-free. Zero problems. Not one.
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post #12 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 12:13 PM
TBLWK2
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A few additional thoughts:

You mentioned replacing headlights on the GC; haven't read or experienced this issue but I try to keep in mind how many GC's are built daily, especially in comparison to the 4Runner, so I assume there must be some percentages that come into play for reliability issues and on forums. One thing for sure, the headlights on all trims of the 4Runner are terrible and from what I've read of the people who switch them to LCD, etc. have experienced mixed results.

Regarding resale value, I agree totally but for that reason, I was determined to buy right and if I wasn't able to negotiate the degree of discount I felt was necessary to help offset the resale hit, I wouldn't have purchased. I waited until the end of the month and end of the year and successfully negotiated the right deal at my local dealer who I felt was the best JEEP dealer for sales and service (I did not feel that way with some of the other JEEP dealers).

Also, regarding wheels. I agree with your assessment of the 4Runner Limited wheels - I don't like them and would also have wanted to purchase both new wheels (the gray TRD) and 17" tires (Michelin). Just doing that would have put the price of the 4Runner above the price I paid for my GC High Altitude. I don't like black wheels (my age showing) but I do like the gray wheels that come on the HA trim and have no plans/desire to upgrade. I am also fine with the Pirelli tires that are stock on the HA trim and won't upgrade until they wear down.

I love the look of my 2020 GC in High Altitude trim (Bright White); it's a classic look that won't go out of style. As I previously stated, I really like the 4Runner look in the SR5 and Trail trims but I detest the look of the Limited trim. I thought about the Limited Trim and changing out the front to the other trims but in the end it just seemed to much cost and hassle to do it right (the only way I would do it).

Good luck in your decision - it's tough and you will probably always look back whichever way you go.
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post #13 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 02:35 PM
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Another buyer's perspective...I was coming from my third Xterra (as well as a bunch of other SUV's and sports cars). I love my Xterra but I needed something with an AT, so I started looking for an SUV with similar features...good backroads and winter capability, no need for a lot of bells & whistles or being prettied up, reasonable reliability at a reasonable price.

I must have test-driven new 4-Runners in a variety of trim-lines and options over 20 times. The first time I went to the dealer's with checkbook in hand, then I kept trying to convince myself that my first 19 test drives were somehow wrong. I really thought that I would love that vehicle because it fit my needs so well, but I could not get past the horrendous ride and handling. All of them were like driving a 80's sedan with worn out shocks, the steering is numb, and the vehicle wanders all over the road. Horrible, horrible driving experience. Not made for anyone who cares about actual driving, never mind reliability, dashboard/wheel appearance, bells & whistles, or anything else. OP, I can't imagine using this for a 50 mi/day commute, particularly if you've appreciated sports cars in the past.



I ended up with my 2020 GC Limited and am very happy driving it. I hope the reliability is good.
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post #14 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 05:11 PM
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I dont' think "significant failure" is a good way to judge, imho....that can happen anytime w/ any vehicle, but doesn't necessarily show a propensity for it....It's the frequency of "significant repairs" per model that would be relevant.

BTW...i've done a lot of beach driving w/ jeeps and I keep going to them. A close friend has a 4runner; was great on the sand...we used to challenge each other .."4wd test drive" where we would try tougher and tougher "routes"...he loved his 4runner so much ended up replacing the engine. Because of that expense, he bought a back-up vehicle for the beach...a Cherokee!

2017 GC Trailhawk
2008 GC Limited
2014 Acura RDX
1997 GC Limited Beach Buggy (Deceased....RIP)
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post #15 of 103 Old 01-16-2020, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Do you off-road? If not, then why not consider e.g., the new Kia Telluride? Incredible value and chock full of features! I absolutely love my Trailhawk (40k miles, no issues), but if it wasnt for the fact that I need the off-roading capabilities and beat the crap out of it, Id go with something like the Kia.
While I won't be doing lots of "offroading", I do need a "go anywhere, anytime" vehicle, so the KIA/Hyundai clones are off the table. Good to hear that you're at 40k miles with no problems. Perhaps it really is a crap shoot about getting a good one.


Overlands and Trailhawks seem to be more reliable that the Summits....
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