QTII Transfer Case Clicking, Stuck in 4Low, Service 4WD Consolidated - JeepForum.com
 9Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 78 Old 01-11-2018, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
samjesse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
QTII Transfer Case Clicking, Stuck in 4Low, Service 4WD Consolidated

Hi

I got 2012 Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD Limited 4x4 Last 8 of VIN: CC243820
Info from the tag on the TC:
Model: MP3023
***'Y: 52853665AD
SERIAL: TTR285185006
RATIO: 2:72

Very loud clicking (13 clicks in 3-4 seconds period) when key on RUN or when engine off and shifter moved from one position to another or when car is moving. (I first thought it was a valve lifter).
Disconnected the motor and clicking went away.
Motor connected, unbolt from TC and key to RUN, clicking noise.
Move shifter to different positions, every position causes the repeat of the clicking but the output shaft of the motor does not move.

The TC shaft where the motor connects to freely turns when using a screw driver.

Replaced with a new motor, clicking is much less but still there.

Any suggestions, is this normal? if not, how to locate the problem? any voltage to pin info for this 4 pin motor plug so that I can scope it?

Many Thanks

Nathancwilson likes this.
samjesse is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 78 Old 01-11-2018, 06:57 PM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,932
It may be the control module. Some have replaced the transfer case only to find that the module failed, possibly because of a bad selector motor. So if you replaced the motor, you may want to try replacing the control module before trying a new transfer case.

Its not a constant voltage, but a pulse width modulated, i.e. the Drive Train Control Module (DTCM) sends steps of voltage until it sees the position sensor in the right position and then sets the brake. The motor is a stepper type, so you may hear clicks when it shifts if you listen very closely.

I thought I had the pin outs for the motor somewhere, but can't find them at the moment. There is a motor A circuit, a B circuit, the brake and position sensors in the motor as well as on the case.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #3 of 78 Old 01-11-2018, 07:43 PM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,932
Found one:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TRANSFER-CASE.pdf (127.3 KB, 82 views)

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
 
post #4 of 78 Old 01-12-2018, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
samjesse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
If the new motor is clicking when the shifter position is changed, with the motor removed from the TC but still connected, why there is no visual indication of the motor output shaft turing?
samjesse is offline  
post #5 of 78 Old 01-12-2018, 10:06 PM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,932
Perhaps the control module is not energizing the motor brake. It seems that when the brake is de-energized the motor is locked and won't turn.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #6 of 78 Old 01-14-2018, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
samjesse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 3
From the last pdf file posted which shows the wires to the motor. What is the function of each of the 4 wires and what wave form do I expect so that I can verify with my scope? The objective is to determine if the motor is getting the correct signals from the module or not.
samjesse is offline  
post #7 of 78 Old 12-05-2018, 02:16 AM
Firstbourne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by samjesse View Post
Hi

I got 2012 Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD Limited 4x4 Last 8 of VIN: CC243820
Info from the tag on the TC:
Model: MP3023
***'Y: 52853665AD
SERIAL: TTR285185006
RATIO: 2:72

Very loud clicking (13 clicks in 3-4 seconds period) when key on RUN or when engine off and shifter moved from one position to another or when car is moving. (I first thought it was a valve lifter).
Disconnected the motor and clicking went away.
Motor connected, unbolt from TC and key to RUN, clicking noise.
Move shifter to different positions, every position causes the repeat of the clicking but the output shaft of the motor does not move.

The TC shaft where the motor connects to freely turns when using a screw driver.

Replaced with a new motor, clicking is much less but still there.

Any suggestions, is this normal? if not, how to locate the problem? any voltage to pin info for this 4 pin motor plug so that I can scope it?

Many Thanks
My 2012 GC 5.7 is doing exactly the same. How did you sort yours out ?
Firstbourne is offline  
post #8 of 78 Old 12-12-2018, 11:17 AM
JACKBYRNES
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
I am having the exact same problem and will let you know what the outcome is. Dealer is telling me i have to replace transfer case. My point to them is why not replace DTCM first and see what happens. If it is truly the transfer case i am trading in. Not going to spend $3200 on a new transfer case. The problem is i have to spend the money to put the new DTCM in the car. If that doesnt work i own the DTCM. I can believe there is not a way to bypass the DTCM to rule out the module itself?
JACKBYRNES is offline  
post #9 of 78 Old 12-12-2018, 01:24 PM
JACKBYRNES
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
Thank you. They put a new module on and the dealer said the clicking sound is no longer repetitive but has an occasional click. He didn’t program the module and said I should replace transfer case. I can’t believe a Jeep service tech at dealer would have to guess on a solution.
JACKBYRNES is offline  
post #10 of 78 Old 12-12-2018, 02:00 PM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,932
I've read here that sometimes a bad motor or intermittently jammed transfer case can burn out a control module. The Tech may be right to suggest a transfer case transplant, dunno. Hard to second guess a tech over the interweb.

There may be some clicking as the the case turns the motor for one mode or another, or makes adjustments in the clutch pack.

There seems to be times where tech experience results in better outcomes than book procedures, but there are several status type messages the dealer can read from the module. Then there is sound and feel.

Not much help, sorry.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #11 of 78 Old 12-13-2018, 10:12 AM
JACKBYRNES
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
If it turns out to be the clutch pack in the transfer case? Would that be an expensive fix? or should i go the route of a complete rebuilt transfer case. It produced the DTC Codes of c1406-12, c1476-00 and c140A-13. I have about $500 in diagnostics into the car already.
JACKBYRNES is offline  
post #12 of 78 Old 12-13-2018, 11:35 AM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,932
A bad/worn clutch pack will probably cause the loss of the front drive, its probably not going to click in normal modes on dry pavement unless its jammed up. Its probably not going to give you all those error codes unless the shift motor is bad. Replacing the clutch pack is about the same as rebuilding the transfer case, so you would either rebuild yours, or swap it for a rebuilt unit.

Those codes are for a shorted brake control to battery or motor circuit open type faults. You probably get a c1476 position out of range because the motor isn't moving due to the shorts/open

To my uneducated guess, sounds like the actuator motor, which is easily replaceable (a wire connector and 4 bolts). Although shift motors are shipped in the neutral position and the transfer case needs to be in the neutral position to install the new one. That may to be hard to do on your own with a defective motor. I dunno the tricks off hand to get that done... perhaps why they just want to replace the transfer case.

It could also be the control module or harness.

You could get your multimeter out and probe the harness to verify/locate where the short is.

Replacing the transfer case will get you a new shift motor, which will probably fix the issue.

Sorry not much help. There have been some discussion threads on the replacing shift motor topic. Someone who has done one may jump in here.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #13 of 78 Old 12-28-2018, 11:42 AM
JACKBYRNES
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 4
Well it was the Control Module. After ordering a new one from the dealer, they sent my mechanic a used part. He didn't install and had them send out a clean new module. Installed and programmed with Mfg software. Problem fixed. The dealer wanted to replace the transfer case, case motor and module. Another reason to avoid dealers at all cost. Thank for all the help on this forum.
JACKBYRNES is offline  
post #14 of 78 Old 12-28-2018, 12:40 PM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,932
Thanks for the follow up.

It seems one can toss a coin with these kinds of faults and get the right part replaced maybe 50% of the time on the first try . Control module failures seem to be an easy one to miss.... and its been reported around here that bad/intermittent actuators can damage the control module.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #15 of 78 Old 01-05-2021, 09:31 PM
blanchardfamily
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 3
Transfer case shift motor re-install guidance please

Hi all. Sorry this is a bit long winded but i'm a DIY guy who doesn't like flushing cash away and would really appreciate some advice from anyone who knows about the workings of the transmission and the transmission shifter motor.

I've got a 2012 Grand Cherokee Laredo 3.0 CRD 4wd. I bought it new in New Zealand but don't think it's a standard configuration in the US from what i've seen???

Initially the issue was the "Service 4WD" and "ESP off" dash lights were on and the transmission would not shift to any other modes like Snow, Rock, 4WD low range etc. Also noticed an occasional shudder from the front wheels when tight cornering at low speed.

Dealer diagnosed fault code C1406 - Transfercase brake control short to ground, and suggested replacing the transfer case gear shifter motor.

The vehicle has only done 30,000 miles and i've very rarely changed transmission modes, so I was sceptical this was the problem. I removed and dismantled the shifter motor as far as possible and it looked like new on the inside and all the wiring harness connections looked sound as well.

After some research here I decided to first try replacing the Drive Train Control Module as many had replaced the shifter motor and then had to replace the DTCM. I sourced a second hand one and after disconnecting the battery for a couple hours and installing the new DTCM, the dash warning lights went out and the transmission worked perfectly and changed modes no problem - for about 15 minutes. Then the dash warning lights re-appeared, but the transmission continues to work normally and change modes on demand, however i do still get shuddering from the front wheels when low speed tight cornering fairly regularly.

Back at the dealer they plugged in their computer and the fault code is now C1476-00 - Transfer Case Clutch Position Out of Range.

When I had the shifter motor out, I wanted to see whether there was much resistance in what it was trying to turn (in the transmission), so I stuck a big screwdriver in the slot and gave it a few turns. It didn't feel like anything was bad but although I was on a flat garage floor the car did roll an inch or so forward, so turning it must have released the transmission from park position.

So then I thought maybe i've confused the system by reconnecting the shifter motor with either the shifter motor in the wrong position, or the transfer case in the wrong position. If you've got this far - thanks for staying with me!

The question I have is whether my problem is likely to still be physical hardware (like the shifter motor), or would it help to maybe turn the transmission position all the way anti-clockwise, and
the shifter motor all the way anti-clockwise as well so I pair them up again in the same position (at one extreme end of their range)?

Thanks in advance.
blanchardfamily is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome