My ESS story. - JeepForum.com
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 04-08-2020, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
Salvinorum
Registered User
 
Salvinorum's Avatar
2020 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Toronto
Posts: 137
Thumbs down My ESS story.

I imagine I was not in the minority but man I hated the idea of ESS. When I went to test drive the JGC that I ended up buying, I wanted to know if I could turn it off. And I was so happy to find out that I can, either with a button on every drive, or via the computer permanently.


Funnily enough of course, I now totally love ESS, It doesn't bother me at all and in fact, what bothers me is that it doesn't work all the time. Man it's annoying to not have the car turn off at a red light, idling there, wondering what's up.


So I don't get it. If I have a second battery just for the ESS, why in the world do I get the "battery charging" message and ESS not available? I can understand the "climate control is on" or "car engine too cold" reasons, but battery? I mean, sure, during the day I hang out in my car on my breaks at work and listen to SiriusXM but that's a total of maybe 50 minutes, I don't get why my ESS battery is being used for that, what's wrong with my main battery? An hour of radio should not have any impact, especially not on the huge battery these Jeeps have.


So, is the ESS battery used as a backup for everything the main battery is used for?


Again, every time I don't have ESS, I check to see why, expecting to see something different, but it's always "battery charging". 10km driving after work (sorry, I'm Canadian, I'll make an effort to talk miles, so 6 miles or so), I get ESS back, which is just in time for my first red light, so I do appreciate it, but still.


Funny that, just like with the green MPG indicator, wife and I actually try to get the most out of the MPG and drive as to make sure we use ESS, lol.

Salvinorum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 04-08-2020, 09:59 AM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,677
When you are driving, while the engine is off, the accessories are run off the ESS battery to 1) save the big battery for restarts and 2) there can be a substantial voltage drop when the starter is engaged, enough to upset some of the modules and light up the dash with fault indications, reset some of them. When the engine is running, everything is powered by the alternator of course so its not an issue.

Perhaps the small ESS battery is used to power accessories regardless of ignition switch position. Dunno if there is a switch over/shared power at some point as the aux battery runs down.

I'm thinking the engineers thought drivers would be more annoyed by the dash lighting up like a Christmas tree every time it restarts than a unavailable battery recharging message, and it was more cost effective to install an aux battery than redesign all the modules... or it took to much time to recover from the glitch... but thats just a guess

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 04-08-2020, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
Salvinorum
Registered User
 
Salvinorum's Avatar
2020 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Toronto
Posts: 137
Like I said, it doesn't really bother me, the system works really well in my Jeep, even throughout the winter it works as intended. The only time the jeep won't turn off is after work, and that is because I sit in it during breaks. In the morning, before going to work, it works fine right away, or at least after about 5 mins, and I've actually seen the "engine cold" or "cabin not up to temp" messages, once, it's rare for me since I park underground.


I don't know if I'm saving anything, but it makes me happy to know I have extra battery power and a stronger starter, no matter if ESS is the reason.
Salvinorum is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 Old 04-13-2020, 10:24 AM
rjlindblom
Registered User
 
rjlindblom's Avatar
2018 WK 
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Rapid City
Posts: 79
Garage
I am becoming accustomed to it. Sometimes it depends on how hard I am pushing on the brake pedal at lights. Other times it is temperature. I also watch the light. If it is changing I let up on the brakes just a bit and the engine starts up. When it is my turn the engine is running, oil pressure is built up and off we go.

Ryan
2018 WK2, Limited. Purchased 12-27-2019
2016 Compass. Traded 12-27-2019
KE0LXT
rjlindblom is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 04-14-2020, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
Salvinorum
Registered User
 
Salvinorum's Avatar
2020 WK 
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Toronto
Posts: 137
Quote:
I also watch the light. If it is changing I let up on the brakes just a bit and the engine starts up.
Oh yeah, I got that down to a science, and it's subconscious at this point, I know instinctively when to "allow" it to turn off and when to crawl forward so it doesn't!
Salvinorum is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 04-14-2020, 07:39 PM
Chuckmiller
Registered User
2018  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 178
I'm not a fan of what has to be a significant increase in starter motor cycles. It could be 5x to 10x the usage. Now granted, unlike my younger years when I helped my dad change starters, alternators, water pumps and hoses, batteries, points and condenser, spark plugs, brakes, etc, ALL THE TIME, I can't remember the last time I heard of a starter motor failing. But ESS has to shorten starter motor life, doesn't it. Doesn't it??
Chuckmiller is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 04-14-2020, 08:07 PM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,677
Yes, but recall that the ESS starter motor is beefed up to provided the same design life. So comparing a non ESS car with the old starter and one with ESS it should be a wash. Now if you put the same beefed up ESS starter in a older car, it should last longer than the older starter.
tomit likes this.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 04-15-2020, 05:43 AM
Nejeep
Registered User
2019 WK 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 1,206
FWIW, I looked at RockAuto's parts list for starters on Jeep GC 3.6 engines. It does show different Mopar part numbers (and higher prices) for newer ESS Jeep starters vs the older non-ESS. However some of the off brand rebuilt starters show the same part numbers for both, so guess which one you might get?

19 Limited 4x4 3.6 White/Tan new daily driver
06 Laredo for 11 years
97 Laredo for 14 years
Nejeep is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 04-15-2020, 07:17 AM
BigPheJeep
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Louisville
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckmiller View Post
I'm not a fan of what has to be a significant increase in starter motor cycles. It could be 5x to 10x the usage. Now granted, unlike my younger years when I helped my dad change starters, alternators, water pumps and hoses, batteries, points and condenser, spark plugs, brakes, etc, ALL THE TIME, I can't remember the last time I heard of a starter motor failing. But ESS has to shorten starter motor life, doesn't it. Doesn't it??
My thoughts on the whole thing is, think of all the idling hours on the engine that are saved for those of us that do a large part of our driving in the city. I'd rather replace my starter a time or two in 200,000 miles of ownership and than all the additional idling hours on the engine. Starters are much cheaper and easier to replace than engines.
BigPheJeep is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 04-15-2020, 11:29 AM
Chuckmiller
Registered User
2018  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 178
What causes more wear on internal rotating parts? Idling with full lubricant circulation or startup with lubricants that have settled?
Chuckmiller is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 04-15-2020, 12:08 PM
ColdCase
My Reality Check Bounced
 
ColdCase's Avatar
2011 WK 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 17,677
Police cars seem to have valve train issues due to all the idling they do. They idle instead of stop/start. Idling seems to be hard on most car gas engine cam, valves, and lifters. Diesels are different. Truck engines are beefed up to deal with extended idling.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
ColdCase is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 04-15-2020, 12:19 PM
BigPheJeep
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Louisville
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckmiller View Post
What causes more wear on internal rotating parts? Idling with full lubricant circulation or startup with lubricants that have settled?
I don't think the short time period of a minute or two would cause much settling of lubrication. I'm not a engineer though.
BigPheJeep is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 04-16-2020, 08:42 AM
Chuckmiller
Registered User
2018  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 178
Thi isn't a subject that is easy to dissect. In my owners manual it says the ESS function is there to reduce emissions. So by that it appears to be how the manufacturer is dealing with government requirements. If a beefier/more costly starter motor is needed (cost passed down to the consumer) maybe the beneficial tradeoff is less wear on the valve train.
Chuckmiller is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 04-16-2020, 01:42 PM
BigPheJeep
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Louisville
Posts: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckmiller View Post
Thi isn't a subject that is easy to dissect. In my owners manual it says the ESS function is there to reduce emissions. So by that it appears to be how the manufacturer is dealing with government requirements. If a beefier/more costly starter motor is needed (cost passed down to the consumer) maybe the beneficial tradeoff is less wear on the valve train.
Yes, the CAFE and other EPA standards are requiring vehicle manufactures to squeeze every MPG and decrease emissions as much as possible. This is especially tough for Jeep that sells so many brick shaped vehicles that aren't the most fuel efficient vehicles because of the requirements of their customers. Who wants a gutless and slow Wrangler and Grand Cherokee that can't tow anything? This does drive up the price and all the technology effects the reliability, in my opinion. Lighter weight parts and over engineered engines aren't going to last like the good old gas hogs of yesteryear, like the beloved 4.0.
Homer1 likes this.
BigPheJeep is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 04-16-2020, 03:14 PM
Homer1
Registered User
 
Homer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPheJeep View Post
Yes, the CAFE and other EPA standards are requiring vehicle manufactures to squeeze every MPG and decrease emissions as much as possible. This is especially tough for Jeep that sells so many brick shaped vehicles that aren't the most fuel efficient vehicles because of the requirements of their customers. Who wants a gutless and slow Wrangler and Grand Cherokee that can't tow anything? This does drive up the price and all the technology effects the reliability, in my opinion. Lighter weight parts and over engineered engines aren't going to last like the good old gas hogs of yesteryear, like the beloved 4.0.
The 4.0 is still my dearly-missed favorite.....

2017 GC Trailhawk
2008 GC Limited
2014 Acura RDX
1997 GC Limited Beach Buggy (Deceased....RIP)
Homer1 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome