Giving Up on the Jeep brand - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 55 Old 02-05-2020, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
DOA71
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Giving Up on the Jeep brand

Well folks, Iím finally done. After being a fan boy of Jeep since I have been a little kid, the infatuation is over. After experiencing some of the same issues that you all have experienced with the battery and a parasitic draw and going back and forth with the dealership mechanics and a local mechanic, the belief that my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L Hemi 4X4 was some how immune to all of these issues was a fallacy and I am finally done.

I havenít committed on this forum in a while but I have been a member since 2012. I remember when Cold Case purchased his 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and reading his updates made me more excited about purchasing my Grand Cherokee. I love the fact of having a forum and reading all the commits of the joy and pain of owning a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have never had any real serious issues with my Jeep, in the matter of fact this is my second Jeep Iíve owned. My first was a 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo and I loved that thing. I purchased it with 75,000 miles on it and kept it for 5 more years and traded it in after putting another 100,000 miles on it.

So when I had the chance to purchase a new vehicle it only made sense to purchase the 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee, especially with the redesign, I was in love. So I purchased my Jeep in Las Vegas when I was stationed at Nellis AFB. My Jeep Grand Cherokee has been from coast to coast and currently here in Europe as I am an active duty service member in the U.S. Army. It has been literally all over the world. I have had no serious issues until now and like in the states, the German Jeep dealer has no idea. I had my starter replaced and had two batteries replaced and still my battery dies; I get up in the morning to start it and itís dead. They gave me the, ďyou arenít driving it enoughĒ which led me to believe that maybe I wasnít but when I began to read about some of the same issues you all were having on the forum, then I had enough information to inform my jeep mechanic here in Germany on some of the issues that owners in America were having as well, I thought it would maybe be helpful. Low and behold it wasnít. So now, I am finally done. I will never purchase a Jeep again, the sad thing is my 11 year-old daughter has only heard me talk about how great Jeeps are and she has always wanted a Jeep Wrangler as soon as she is able to drive, but of course that request will be denied. Obviously Jeep canít fix their own vehicles so why would I dare spend my hard earned money on an inferior product. The sad part is again I haven always been a jeep fan and being a soldier made me feel more special since I owned a vehicle that had roots that dated back to WWII so there was a since of pride in owning a Jeep but that is all gone now since at 116,754 miles my jeep is now unreliable and I canít have that. So when we get back to the states this summer, I will be purchasing a dependable 4x4, a Toyota 4-Runner. Good luck to you all and I hope this issue never happens to you anytime soon because apparently there is no fix. All of my soldiers who are itching to purchase a Jeep will be briefed. Sorry for the long post.

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post #2 of 55 Old 02-05-2020, 03:22 PM
LouC
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Well what you have are incompetent or just plain lazy mechanics. Most likely you have a module that is not going to sleep like it should and draining the battery.I had this once on mine (2007 Grand) and the dealer scanned it and found the TIPM and a door module were bad, replaced both and its been fine ever since. Your dealer needs to use proper scanner to scan all the modules, and find the suspect one. All later model vehicles with the CAN BUS system can have this type of problem. And if you think Japanese vehicles never have problems, well I bought (4) of them for myself starting in 1980 but in '98 started buying Jeeps and still have all 3 I bought, and have no urge to buy anything else. I did not have more trouble with Jeeps than with my Japanese vehicles.
Have you test driven a 4Runner? Be prepared, compared to the Hemi Grand....it will be SLOW....and if....it ever blows a head gasket....get ready for a wallet draining experience....because to do head gaskets on that engine....takes 22 hrs book time yes you read that right. 22 hrs. There is a guy on youtube who did a time lapse Head gasket replacement on a 4 Runner….
if you ever have to replace the cat converters...its a bout 4500. A Jeep Hemi cat converter is less than 2 grand.
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post #3 of 55 Old 02-05-2020, 04:10 PM
jtec
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heated seats & steering wheels, speaks volumes on the direction jeep has taken, price GMAFB

think land rover.

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #4 of 55 Old 02-05-2020, 04:19 PM
skjeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA71 View Post
So I purchased my Jeep in Las Vegas when I was stationed at Nellis AFB. My Jeep Grand Cherokee has been from coast to coast and currently here in Europe as I am an active duty service member in the U.S. Army. It has been literally all over the world. I have had no serious issues until now and like in the states, the German Jeep dealer has no idea. I had my starter replaced and had two batteries replaced and still my battery dies; I get up in the morning to start it and itís dead. They gave me the, ďyou arenít driving it enoughĒ which led me to believe that maybe I wasnít but when I began to read about some of the same issues you all were having on the forum, then I had enough information to inform my jeep mechanic here in Germany on some of the issues that owners in America were having as well, I thought it would maybe be helpful....

Do not give up. Soldiers normally donīt
Where are you located in Germany? What are the exact symptoms? Just the battery drain? How far are you prepared to drive it to get it fixed?

current 2x XJ, 2x JK-U, SJ, M38A1, WJ
gone XJ, TJ, XK, ZJ
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post #5 of 55 Old 02-05-2020, 04:44 PM
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I can understand the frustration w/ the mechanics; there isn't a local dealer that I trust as I do my regular maintenance guy...though, I still do own my 3rd and 4th Jeeps.....dealer service is certainly an issue it seems everywhere. Good luck w/ your choices, and thanks for your service!

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post #6 of 55 Old 02-05-2020, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DOA71 View Post
Well folks, Iím finally done. After being a fan boy of Jeep since I have been a little kid, the infatuation is over. After experiencing some of the same issues that you all have experienced with the battery and a parasitic draw and going back and forth with the dealership mechanics and a local mechanic, the belief that my 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L Hemi 4X4 was some how immune to all of these issues was a fallacy and I am finally done.

I havenít committed on this forum in a while but I have been a member since 2012. I remember when Cold Case purchased his 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and reading his updates made me more excited about purchasing my Grand Cherokee. I love the fact of having a forum and reading all the commits of the joy and pain of owning a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have never had any real serious issues with my Jeep, in the matter of fact this is my second Jeep Iíve owned. My first was a 1991 Jeep Cherokee Laredo and I loved that thing. I purchased it with 75,000 miles on it and kept it for 5 more years and traded it in after putting another 100,000 miles on it.

So when I had the chance to purchase a new vehicle it only made sense to purchase the 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee, especially with the redesign, I was in love. So I purchased my Jeep in Las Vegas when I was stationed at Nellis AFB. My Jeep Grand Cherokee has been from coast to coast and currently here in Europe as I am an active duty service member in the U.S. Army. It has been literally all over the world. I have had no serious issues until now and like in the states, the German Jeep dealer has no idea. I had my starter replaced and had two batteries replaced and still my battery dies; I get up in the morning to start it and itís dead. They gave me the, ďyou arenít driving it enoughĒ which led me to believe that maybe I wasnít but when I began to read about some of the same issues you all were having on the forum, then I had enough information to inform my jeep mechanic here in Germany on some of the issues that owners in America were having as well, I thought it would maybe be helpful. Low and behold it wasnít. So now, I am finally done. I will never purchase a Jeep again, the sad thing is my 11 year-old daughter has only heard me talk about how great Jeeps are and she has always wanted a Jeep Wrangler as soon as she is able to drive, but of course that request will be denied. Obviously Jeep canít fix their own vehicles so why would I dare spend my hard earned money on an inferior product. The sad part is again I haven always been a jeep fan and being a soldier made me feel more special since I owned a vehicle that had roots that dated back to WWII so there was a since of pride in owning a Jeep but that is all gone now since at 116,754 miles my jeep is now unreliable and I canít have that. So when we get back to the states this summer, I will be purchasing a dependable 4x4, a Toyota 4-Runner. Good luck to you all and I hope this issue never happens to you anytime soon because apparently there is no fix. All of my soldiers who are itching to purchase a Jeep will be briefed. Sorry for the long post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skjeep View Post
Do not give up. Soldiers normally donīt
Where are you located in Germany? What are the exact symptoms? Just the battery drain? How far are you prepared to drive it to get it fixed?
Yes, where are you stationed. Most German Jeep dealers will have no clue (like Mercedes dealers here in the US), but - depending on where you are - I might be able to point you to a tech who can help.
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post #7 of 55 Old 02-05-2020, 05:04 PM
222Doc
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You did not give up on Jeep<it dont exists. its Fiat(Italy) or like i call it now FOPAR. the 12 i bought if not for it being a"jeep" meaning a Cj-to what ever. I would have dumped this thing at 20k when the head blew, the air bag went off on its own, 3 radios died, 4 clock springs, 3 shift assembles, rad leaks and the beat goes on...... I have traded of other cars for less. But since this thing is mainly an off road jeep 99% and nothing but hard trails since 20k. now at 37k. I have had a real jeep since 1975 and even then was running the Rubicon trail back then and still do nearly every year. Its a love hate thing with these no matter the year. has always been that way too. THough my last jeep was a 66 and before that was 47 they were the real deal on KISS. keep it simple stup......

Daily drivers i would not drive a jeep. We have a 03 excursion 7.3 4x4 that has 260,000 miles and still tows and drives all over the USA. its the wifes 4x4. Me i drive a 96 f250 7.3 2x4 with near 200k all it has ever done is tow and haul a camper and DD. both get 18mpg and 12-13 towing a jeep on trailer and a slide in camper. My truck the only real big repair was the trans few years ago. everything else works and has since 1996. they are simple to work on for diesels and no smog. The excursion was the best SUV ever made. 1 ton full floating axles, full frame. Biggest in its class ever. heaviest too at 4 tons. even on 35s and 4" lift it gets better mpg then my jeep did new on 32s.

i will never buy another new vehicle ever again. Not worth it. I paid cash for this heep back in 2011 and it was a 12 i was tempted like a Trout to a lure. Bright and shinny it was with way more power then any be fore it. So tested was the 3.6 they claimed.....yea sure it was. they still are breaking heads, oil filler assembles and that list gets longer too....

These two old fords we have i will rebuild when needed. though 7.3s are about the standard of what is built proof. I know some with near 1 million miles and many with 500k. To bad they dont make them like that no more....

Fiat is dead to me......

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post #8 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 04:53 AM
jtec
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AGREE

all ended @ 2004....

Being young i wanted the option list RPO's now I would look for a DELETE list.

resident curmudgeon
r

When I see the price of OEM I think aftermarket.
When I see the quality of aftermarket I think OEM.
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post #9 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 06:14 AM
mojovious
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While all vehicles with moving mechanical parts, elaborate electronics and wiring that must withstand a multitude of friction, harmonic vibrations, varying temperatures and other destructive type environments can develop issues (especially over a decade and 100,000 miles), I submit that the brand you are interested in moving to has a worse reputation than the one you currently have, but their marketing and branding success makes it appear otherwise. The Jeep brand does have a lot to live up to with its heritage and while no brand is perfect, they do seem to put emphasis on the proper aspects of ownership that are critically important. The other brand you mention uses inferior frame metal that rusts completely out in a few short years requiring the entire vehicle frame to be replaced - are you kidding me? Yes just look it up (Tacoma). Their electronics have a reputation of being flawed (remember the acceleration issue affecting millions of vehicles world wide which they denied at first?). They use very cheap parts for the sake of profit that barely gets passed the initial warranty period (example, EVAC filters that are not intended to ever be replaced are made from very cheap foam material that disintegrates in a short time causing pieces to be sucked into the EVAP system thus contaminating and destroying it - and they have no problem charging fees into the thousands to replace such systems. If you do go with that brand, I recommend a deep dive into details that others have suffered so you can proactively replace parts and take appropriate measures to avoid catastrophic failures of parts that should have been made to be reliable for decades. This is possible, I have done it, but it is painstaking and shocking what you will discover. In summary "they just don't make them like they used to LOL - no one does unfortunately. All the best and good luck!

Mojovious
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post #10 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 06:25 AM
LouC
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German dealers don't know how to scan a CANBUS system? Bull crap, Mercedes invented it, for those who don't know. The dealership people are lazy and incompetent as I said above. Every car on the road, has CANBUS today and every one can have the same problem from the same cause. Faulty module that does not go to sleep. Has anyone even measured the engine off current draw? Simple test, auto shop 101.

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post #11 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 07:31 AM
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Parasitic loss can be a PITA to diagnose, and its not one of the more higher pay rate jobs, but a good tech should have it resolved in no time. Techs, in general, want to work on the higher pay rate jobs, however.

An approach for long term ownership may be to find a highly competent Tech, buy the vehicle brand he knows like the back of his hand. Follow him to wherever shop he is working.

My brother uses the approach of trading off every three years, regardless. He rarely has to deal with a repair and never had to pay for one. He is usually only bothered with recalls and routine maintenance. Doesn't matter what brand (he likes a brand that generally falls apart at 5 years, but it doesn't matter to him). In the long run, it doesn't cost him that much as he doesn't put much miles on it so resale value may be higher than the average.

Do not mistake temptation for opportunity
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post #12 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 07:38 AM
skjeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouC View Post
German dealers don't know how to scan a CANBUS system? Bull crap, Mercedes invented it, for those who don't know. The dealership people are lazy and incompetent as I said above. Every car on the road, has CANBUS today and every one can have the same problem from the same cause. Faulty module that does not go to sleep. Has anyone even measured the engine off current draw? Simple test, auto shop 101.



Actually, CAN bus network was invented by Bosch and first made by Philips and Intel, but the Mercedes W140 was the first production car to use it
Otherwise youīre right. Faulty module, broken or messed CAN line(s), faulty wiring... all that starts from OEM scan tool diagnose and simple current draw measurements.
Btw, some early WK2 are prone to wire break/damage in some certain spots. As a result of cost-cutting, there are some wires too short or too stretched.
And after some miles and years, as the various rubber mounts weaken.....
There was even an issue with the 2011-12 diesel WKs and transmission wire harness, where the car suddenly died while turning sharp right. The issue was the trans wire was too tightly stretched arond the trans and as it mover, it rubbed the insulation and shorted out. At the end it was a simple fix, but finding out the cause for the first time was quite labor and time intensive.

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gone XJ, TJ, XK, ZJ
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post #13 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 07:53 AM
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@DOA71 :

A) Thanks for your service in US Armed Forces.

B) Thanks for your first and only post on this forum to say you are leaving.

Battery drain issues are a pain in the butt to diagnose (time wise) but not hard. You can monitor current draw on each circuit w/ simple ammeter to isolate the one(s) with the problem. Simplest way is with car shut off, in series with car battery, wait 20 minutes, then start pulling fuses until you get kill the current drain. Then focus on that branch. As mentioned in prior post, a door or open/close switch could keep an alarm or body control module awake.

Assuming the charging system is working as designed.
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post #14 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 09:01 AM
kabjeep
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So you had no serious issues in 8 years of owning the Jeep and then you have one serious issue after 8 years of trouble free driving and the brand is garbage??? 8 years without a serious problem and you are upset???
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post #15 of 55 Old 02-06-2020, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
DOA71
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Thank you all for the info!!!!

I would like to thank you all for the informative info. I will definitely bring this knowledge to the dealer in regards to the module scanning and possible transmission wire harnesses, the next time it dies, which I suspect should be sometime this week. Well, when I did get vehicle back from the dealership about two weeks ago, it lasted for 5 straight days before the brand new battery they sold me went dead. Since, I have jumped started it, we are back on a streak of 4 days in a row, so we will see what happens in the next couple of days. Prior to the new battery, when I went to the dealer the first time they said they couldnít find anything wrong and gave me a battery charger to charge my battery at night, I still had to jump start the thing every morning until I went back and they sold me the battery, after keeping it for a week and again not finding anything wrong. Prior to that I had a mechanic here in Hohenfels who has done work for me before to include my brakes and he changed out the cooling fan for me that went bad. He took a crack at it as well and thatís where I got my first new battery and a new starter. Iím stationed here in Bavaria in Hohenfels, Germany at JMRC (Joint Multinational Readiness Center) by the way.

As I stated earlier just very frustrating after reading in previous forums in respect to my situation, people continue to have this reoccurring issue with waking up the next morning to dead batteries; again just frustrating when the dealership keeps telling me there is nothing wrong or they canít find anything wrong. I take my jeep to, Automobile Ochsenkuhn GmbH Jeep, in Neumarkt which is about 20 minutes away but not complaining cause it is always a joy to drive on the Autobahn, well most of the time anyway. Again, I love my Jeep I still look back at it when I park and walk away, now thatís love. Just seems like they have no idea how to fix it, but again Iíll have new info to share with them the next time I head up.

So again, thank you all for arming me with more information which I am sure to bring up to the dealer and I will definitely do a deep dive in the consideration of my next choice of vehicle. Totally love this forum!!!
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