ESS Stopped Working - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
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post #31 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 11:52 AM
LouC
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OK now I'll add this:
any of you ever drive a stick shift vehicle with this inane system? I have, a 2018 JL 6 speed. I can't imagine trying to teach someone to drive a manual trans with this abomination shutting off, then starting up when you push the clutch half way down, etc. Very disorienting for a driver trying to learn. I found I could fake it out by leaving the trans in gear with the clutch disengage at a traffic light. If you shift to neutral and let the clutch up, it shuts off. Push the clutch in to put in gear and it starts. Inane. Will NOT have one!


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post #32 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 12:13 PM
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Whether ESS is good or bad should be argued somewhere else; the concern here seems....to me.. that it is sporadic, and seems to stop often, and may be related to battery charging. Battery charging is important, right?

BTW my ESS didn't work again this morning, "battery charging", outside temp read 27deg though local reports read low to mid 30's. It did start working after about 30 mins of driving.

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post #33 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouC View Post
OK so think about what you are saying:
When you do have to replace the vehicle battery, now you need to replace with the AGM battery which is about twice the price of a standard flooded lead acid battery.
And, have you ever replaced a starter on the WK-II yourself? Take a look at the procedure, trust me its not an easy job like on our old '98 ZJ with the inline 6. That one I swapped out in about 30 min and the starter was about $100 bucks. On the WK-II in some cases you have to get an engine hoist to hold up the engine and remove the engine mount that is right in front of the starter. Not a fun job. Even on my '07 WK Hemi, you have to remove the inner fender well to get at the starter.

to save how much gas? if it can even be measured, I'll be surprised.
Yes it can. See my links below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jksgvb View Post
I can't post links here but go to youtube and have a look at Engineering Explained's video: "Americans Have No Idea How Much Fuel Idling Uses" where Jason walks you through some of the SAE papers that document and quantify how much fuel idling uses.

I test drove a 2020 Summit today with ESS and was pleasantly surprised. Perhaps it was the sound deadening in the Summit, but the system was pretty unobtrusive.



Because of all the complaints about ESS (and similar systems), I decided to see if I could get the system to "not work" and I succeeded. I had the car for about an hour, 40 degrees on a multi-lane road with stoplights spread a couple of minutes apart.


Normal driving, temp set to 70, heated seats and wheel off, radio on, no lights. ESS worked as intended.


Turning the heated seats on made no difference, except that they turned off (I'm not sure if they always turn off, but they got cooler at a long light. Got warm again after the car restarted.


ESS did not work with the front defroster on or the rear defroster on. Turning the AC to cold also got the ESS to stop working.


Edmunds has a report on the systems and then there is a Road & Track article with a video. One note is that the EPA fuel economy stats do not consider the use of ESS, so the city mileage should be better.


I remember the early start stop systems in Europe that were pretty awful. VW introduced it in the early 80's on a special Polo edition, but the first system came from Japan (either Datsun or Toyota IIRC) in the mid 70's. Those systems had long cranks and only shut down after it was initiated by the driver and was intended for long stops - rail crossings and so forth.


Modern start stop systems are computer controlled and there are lots of variables that determine if the system will kick in. If it doesn't work under most conditions, then you should probably have it looked at by the dealer.
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post #34 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 07:39 PM
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I like the ESS.
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post #35 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 08:59 PM
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post #36 of 78 Old 01-25-2020, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer1 View Post
Whether ESS is good or bad should be argued somewhere else; the concern here seems....to me.. that it is sporadic, and seems to stop often, and may be related to battery charging. Battery charging is important, right?

BTW my ESS didn't work again this morning, "battery charging", outside temp read 27deg though local reports read low to mid 30's. It did start working after about 30 mins of driving.
At 27 degrees, it shouldn't take 30 min of driving for the ESS to kick in. Once the engine temp is in operating range and the cabin is warmed to your setting(if in auto mode), ESS will start. Typically ours is ready after less than 10 min of driving. If your getting the ESS not available "battery charging" alot, it's likely a bad battery or batteries.
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post #37 of 78 Old 01-26-2020, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by trailhawk2614 View Post
At 27 degrees, it shouldn't take 30 min of driving for the ESS to kick in. Once the engine temp is in operating range and the cabin is warmed to your setting(if in auto mode), ESS will start. Typically ours is ready after less than 10 min of driving. If your getting the ESS not available "battery charging" alot, it's likely a bad battery or batteries.
Thanks...before the battery charging, i get the other usual notes...engine cold, cabin warming, and the one pictured which i thought was funny....what's next "Stop Start not ready--you forgot your anniversary"?? LOL
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post #38 of 78 Old 01-29-2020, 04:30 PM
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whoa ...tuff crowd...lol
Mechanic replaced the "motorcycle" battery today; main battery tested fine. Will see tomorrow if this solves the stop/start issue.....
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post #39 of 78 Old 01-30-2020, 02:48 PM
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stop/start still not working...."battery charging". I really don't care for stop/start, so long as there are no other issues. I'll eat a tire before I take it to one of my local dealerships for this.....

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post #40 of 78 Old 01-31-2020, 06:27 AM
LouC
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OK so for what it saves...how much more does the AGM main battery and the motorcycle battery cost?
If you are a stick shift person take it from me you will hate this idiotic annoyance, even on an auto trans it is absurd.
There are other better ways to save fuel. Keep in mind that the auto biz's go to response is to always pick the cheapest one.

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post #41 of 78 Old 01-31-2020, 07:15 AM
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Ten main and secondary AGM battery combos are less harmful to the environment than one flooded battery and they last longer. Currently AGM batteries are 20% more money initially but last 50% longer, so its a cost savings in the long run. But ESS currently uses two batteries, so the initial cost may make it more costly overall in the long run in terms of money, but less costly to the environment. The next gen systems will be using an electric motor while the gas engine is stopped to power the vehicle electronics and provide some forward momentum until the gas engine starts. Something like a hybrid in concept.

Start stop on a manual can be tricky and requires some skill, but there are a bunch of European drivers that seem to develop the skill

Its good that the WK2 offers a way to disable ESS, I imagine it would be very distracting while rock climbing.

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post #42 of 78 Old 01-31-2020, 09:10 AM
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OK, for the record, let me add to my findings and state what I think may be happening. So far this is speculation, but time will tell. We know ESS will not work if your seat belt is off, you are not in forward gear, if ESS is turned off via switch control, if wheels are turned, if defroster is on, if you are on a hill, if cabin temp is not reached, if engine temp is not reached (about 180), or if the battery is charging and those things all present a status if you have the ESS monitor turned on. Additionally, the Jeep video on ESS states it will not work if the battery is too cold or too hot. I have had my ESS battery changed once at about 1,200 miles in early Jan 2020 following frequent "Battery Charging" messages. Following the initial battery change, the system worked the first day, failed several days later, came back to life for a few days, failed, came back to life. That continues to be the case. Dealer wants the car back to look at it, but I am reluctant to let them try to troubleshoot a problem that may be the result of poor design or LACK OF PROPER INDICATION. I think I have noticed a trend, and am now tracking that to see if I am correct. My car is not a daily driver, and often sits for a few days between trips. It is winter in PA, and as such after initial start I have seen the following warnings prior to either getting "Battery Charging" or "System Active" indication. They are, Defroster on, engine too cold, cabin temp not reached. I have parked the car with a working system and the next day had the battery charging indication. I have also parked the car and the next day it is fully operational. I am beginning to believe, some of the "Battery charging" issues are in fact caused by exterior temperature being below or near freezing and the "battery charging" message is actually being used as a catch-all for weak battery, cold battery, and maybe even hot battery. Time will tell, and when spring comes if the problem continues I guess I will have to eat crow, but for now I'm just tracking temps on the days it works and the days it fails.
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post #43 of 78 Old 01-31-2020, 11:14 AM
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I am a retiree from FCA and lease a vehicle through the FCA company car system. We lease a new vehicle every year. I currently have a 2019 GC Trailhawk and have had a 2018 and 2017 as well.

All 3 of them have had this same issue with the ESS often not working and saying battery is charging. This happens most often in the winter here in Michigan. I do not drive the vehicle often, sometimes only a few times a week and the ESS almost never works unless I drive an hour or so. In the summer this almost never happens.

It also never happened when I was working as I had a 60 mile round trip to work every day and the battery was always charged. I have a 2020 on order and expect this one will behave the same way.
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post #44 of 78 Old 01-31-2020, 03:11 PM
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Thanks, all...again i also don't care for the stop/start, i just want to be sure nothing else is harmed.
Rags722 and chry3d...I will also take note of the correlation of temperature and ESS failure because I think your findings are similar to mine....

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post #45 of 78 Old 02-01-2020, 12:14 PM
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Hey! It worked today...short trip, 10 minutes....outside temp read 43 deg.

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