ESS Stopped Working - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 78 Old 01-15-2020, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
RicKaysen
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I live in Las Vegas and temperatures are usually 50s to 60 during the day so extreme outdoor temps can't be the issue for me.

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post #17 of 78 Old 01-15-2020, 11:05 AM
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So... Message on the display says start stop not available - battery charging. Dealer wants me to leave it with them to "diagnose".
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Originally Posted by CrimsonGhost View Post
Mine stopped working in December and I have the same message. Battery Charging. I don't miss it, but I don't like having things not working that should be.
We're sorry to hear that you are both experiencing a stop/start concern. If you need any assistance while working with your dealers, please do not hesitate to reach out to us via PM.
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post #18 of 78 Old 01-15-2020, 12:06 PM
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How ironic, ours was just in the shop for this problem last week. I've never liked the ESS feature and usually turn it off when I drive the Jeep. My wife drives it most of the time and she typically just leaves it on. I noticed last month while riding with her that it wasn't stopping at traffic lights. When I keyed up the start/stop feature in the display, it said not available battery charging. What's odd is I then went to the screen that shows battery charging and it said 14.4V which is what I've always seen this car say. Anyhow, all during the holidays when I was driving the Jeep I would monitor it and sure enough, ESS was always not available due to the battery charging. As much as I liked it not kicking in(and me not having to manually turn it off) I knew there was something wrong. So I took it in last week and they replaced both the eSS battery and the main battery under warranty. Said both had a bad cell. All is working now. I'm typically not averse to new technology and having additional features on a car(even though it creates an additional failure point) but I really really see no benefit in the ESS on any car. The amount of fuel it likely saves over the vehicle's lifetime is minimal compared to the increased maintenance and repair costs. Oh and I had a Chevy Malibu as a rental while the Jeep was in and it also had ESS. Unlike the jeep, there is no override switch on the Chevy so your stuck with it. I noticed on the Chevy, after about 30 seconds of sitting at a stop light, it would restart the engine. Every time. Maybe this is a way to help ensure the cabin stays cool/warm in extreme weather but it would restart with a jolt which was annoying! Nothing about that 2019 Malibu impressed me, I'd take my 8 year old Charger with 124K over one of those new any day.
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post #19 of 78 Old 01-22-2020, 02:37 PM
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This just started with my 2017 GC Trailhawk...30,000 miles but I've only had it for about 3500 miles. If i'm reading correctly, the ESS has it's own battery, that controls electronics? So when it says that stop start not available due to "battery charging", which battery is it referring to??

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2008 GC Limited
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post #20 of 78 Old 01-22-2020, 05:09 PM
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The small "ESS" battery, it needs to be fully charged to be sure there is enough juice to cover a stop event.

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Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #21 of 78 Old 01-23-2020, 11:34 AM
trailhawk2614
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This just started with my 2017 GC Trailhawk...30,000 miles but I've only had it for about 3500 miles. If i'm reading correctly, the ESS has it's own battery, that controls electronics? So when it says that stop start not available due to "battery charging", which battery is it referring to??
There is a separate battery that is in the same compartment with the main battery for ESS. Now, whether it is there to supplement the main battery during engine-off stops or whether it is what solely powers things during engine off is not clear. What I can say is that even though ours continually said "battery charging", when I would view the actual battery charge in the driver info center, it said 14.4 volts which is definitely not under charged. So, I'm guessing the "not available batter charging" message refers to the ESS battery. But who knows for sure? And even though ours constantly said 14.4 volts, apparently the main battery had a bad cell as they replaced it and the ESS battery. All has been working fine since the repair. Whether the main battery really needed replacing or not is beyond me, but we got a two new batteries under warranty so I'm not going to argue with that. I still disable the silly ESS feature most times I drive the Jeep.
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post #22 of 78 Old 01-23-2020, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Homer1 View Post
This just started with my 2017 GC Trailhawk...30,000 miles but I've only had it for about 3500 miles. If i'm reading correctly, the ESS has it's own battery, that controls electronics? So when it says that stop start not available due to "battery charging", which battery is it referring to??
It can be both or just one. I did have the message and i have the replace just the main battery, it has only 110amp from 650amp . The secondary battery which is the small one was perfect. You can remove both and check with your local autozone to make a battery check, its free.
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post #23 of 78 Old 01-23-2020, 12:33 PM
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There may be plenty of speculation here.

You could subscribe to FCA's tech data for a few days at techauthority.com and read all about it.

What some seem to miss is that battery charging is no longer controlled entirely by the PCM. It may be misleading to draw inferences from the battery voltage shown in the vehicle info center. There is a smart battery condition device on the end of the + battery cable (smarter than a simple voltage regulator) that monitors the condition of the battery(s) and adjusts the charge rates (off hand I don't know its name). Its part of the power management strategy. Current, voltage, and temperature are a couple things factored in. I don't know off hand if the ESS battery voltage is reported to the vehicle info center or just wether its charging or not.

Its clear that the small ESS battery is not used for starting the vehicle. Its there to keep the control modules and radio going while the engine is stopped and to mitigate the voltage drop when the starter engages. (it may not be clear exactly which modules are protected)

There is a dual battery thread, and a voltage reading thread around here somewhere with more detail, if no one jumps in here by the time I get back I'll try to find it.

I've heard that the battery condition monitors can be finicky.

EDIT: Additional information from other threads: Jeep uses an Intelligent Battery System (IBS) at least on V6s with ESS. There is a battery current/voltage/temperature sensor on the end of the battery cable that the PCM uses to adjust charging rates and evaluate the condition of the battery. What you typically see is that under throttle and idle, the voltage is at a low 12.6V. Down the road and coast voltage will go up to 13.2-13.4. The voltage indicated can run from 12.6-14.5 and it depends on the battery needs in regard to a charge. Those that are seeing 14.4V all the time have an issue. The IBS is why Jeep recommends charging the battery ay the battery terminal (after disconnecting the battery).

As an example, after pulling off the trickle charger a battery will be at about 13.2+. The voltage display will indicate this until the battery discharges a bit. The alternator is not putting out voltage at this time as the IBS is telling it that the battery is at 100% capacity. As the voltage drops down to the 12.5-12.7 range the alternator is told to start charging the battery and the system voltage will increase a bit. The more ESS is utilized the higher the displayed voltage reading will be as there is more charge needed to refill the batteries and a higher voltage charges them faster.

https://www.batterypoweronline.com/a...otive-designs/

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Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #24 of 78 Old 01-23-2020, 12:38 PM
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all this to save what? Every time I hear a car restart in traffic I think of how absurd it is.
What I like about our 2 older Jeeps is it has none of the ridiculous nanny watching nonsense that I don't want and especially don't want to be forced to pay for. Thank goodness our '17 Wrangler and '17 Subaru do not have this foolishness.
NOTE TO BIG GOV'T:
We, the taxpayers DID NOT ASK FOR IT! Mind your own business!

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post #25 of 78 Old 01-23-2020, 02:20 PM
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Thanks for the replies; ESS started working again this afternoon on the drive home. It's considerably warmer than the last two days...maybe thats a factor??

2017 GC Trailhawk
2008 GC Limited
2014 Acura RDX
1997 GC Limited Beach Buggy (Deceased....RIP)
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post #26 of 78 Old 01-23-2020, 03:25 PM
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all this to save what? Every time I hear a car restart in traffic I think of how absurd it is...
It's a beneficial feature even if you never use it. Starters and batteries are made more robust to support the system. And it does save gas.
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post #27 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 06:17 AM
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It's a beneficial feature even if you never use it. Starters and batteries are made more robust to support the system. And it does save gas.
OK so think about what you are saying:
When you do have to replace the vehicle battery, now you need to replace with the AGM battery which is about twice the price of a standard flooded lead acid battery.
And, have you ever replaced a starter on the WK-II yourself? Take a look at the procedure, trust me its not an easy job like on our old '98 ZJ with the inline 6. That one I swapped out in about 30 min and the starter was about $100 bucks. On the WK-II in some cases you have to get an engine hoist to hold up the engine and remove the engine mount that is right in front of the starter. Not a fun job. Even on my '07 WK Hemi, you have to remove the inner fender well to get at the starter.

to save how much gas? if it can even be measured, I'll be surprised.

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2007 WK Limited Hemi QDII
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post #28 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 06:31 AM
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... When you do have to replace the vehicle battery, now you need to replace with the AGM battery which is about twice the price of a standard flooded lead acid battery.
You can blame AGM on the fact quality lead is getting expensive, not ESS. All WK2s built have AGM batteries, well before ESS was released. Vehicles went to AGM because they are more compact, work better for the size, and last longer, ESS did not forced the issue, but the additional stop/start is harder on a flooded cell battery than an AGM. AGMs are more durable. Currently the cost is about 10% more than an equivalently rated flooded battery. But you can get cheap flooded battery junk. Manufactures have added IBS due in most part to ESS, however.

Starters for ESS vehicles are larger and beefier. We don't see a higher failure rate. It is a royal pain to change a WK2 V6 starter. You had to remove the front drive shaft to swap the older WK, so pulling starters has been getting more difficult for awhile as bodies get more compact and engines bigger.

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Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #29 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 08:48 AM
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...to save how much gas? if it can even be measured, I'll be surprised.
I can't post links here but go to youtube and have a look at Engineering Explained's video: "Americans Have No Idea How Much Fuel Idling Uses" where Jason walks you through some of the SAE papers that document and quantify how much fuel idling uses.
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post #30 of 78 Old 01-24-2020, 11:49 AM
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I can't post links here but go to youtube and have a look at Engineering Explained's video: "Americans Have No Idea How Much Fuel Idling Uses" where Jason walks you through some of the SAE papers that document and quantify how much fuel idling uses.
I do believe it helps, however, in the year I had it and it was working, it never lasts a full light cycle, yet, would activate at a stop sign. It pains me to see the solution to archaic, poorly designed traffic lights is the Auto Stop Start feature.

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