Engine rattle on startup - 5.7 Hemi *new vehicle* - JeepForum.com
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 10-06-2019, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
Rich Z
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Question Engine rattle on startup - 5.7 Hemi *new vehicle*

OK, so I bought a new 2019 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk a few days ago, and brought it home after putting close to 600 miles on it. That was Friday when I rolled it into my garage. Today a friend stops over to see the new ride, and when I started it up, it sounded like someone had thrown a handful of marbles into the engine. Went away fairly quickly, as I suppose oil pressure built up, but dang! Oil level is just fine, and the oil looks brand new. Sure didn't hear that when I cranked up the engine while on the road in the morning and the Jeep sat overnight.

Is that normal for the hemi? I know the V6 in my 2015 Wrangler rattles a little bit when I start it up after sitting a few days, but this was quite loud and noticeable.

I'm going to let it sit for another 48 hours and see what happens then. If needed, I would have to take it to a local dealer, as the one I bought it from is a good 300 miles away.

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post #2 of 13 Old 10-06-2019, 05:24 PM
ColdCase
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Not normal, but often mentioned. The lifters have anti leak down features. You may have one not sealing properly, if its lifter noise. I've let mine set for a couple weeks without rattles on startup.

Now there have been other issues reported, mostly serpentine belt pulley or AC compressor things. Could be the Air Suspension starting up/adjusting. The V6 had an oil filter check valve issue.

I think someone posted awhile ago about something similar, perhaps will jump in here soon with resolution.

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post #3 of 13 Old 10-07-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
OK, so I bought a new 2019 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk a few days ago, and brought it home after putting close to 600 miles on it. That was Friday when I rolled it into my garage. Today a friend stops over to see the new ride, and when I started it up, it sounded like someone had thrown a handful of marbles into the engine. Went away fairly quickly, as I suppose oil pressure built up, but dang! Oil level is just fine, and the oil looks brand new. Sure didn't hear that when I cranked up the engine while on the road in the morning and the Jeep sat overnight.

Is that normal for the hemi? I know the V6 in my 2015 Wrangler rattles a little bit when I start it up after sitting a few days, but this was quite loud and noticeable.

I'm going to let it sit for another 48 hours and see what happens then. If needed, I would have to take it to a local dealer, as the one I bought it from is a good 300 miles away.
Hi all..
I bought a 17 Overland at the end of that model year with a hemi... Mine has done the same thing since it was new... It is turning 24000 miles now and will do it from time to time.. I have left it with the dealer but naturally it doesn't do it then...
It is not one lifter.. As the OP says it rattles pretty good( light not heavy like a rod) for a couple of seconds.. Very disconcerting but hasn't been any detrimental effects as yet... I would almost think it would be a oil pump check valve or some such..
It is totally unpredictable when it happens other than it is always on a cold start..
Otherwise it runs terrific and no other issues..
Don't know what to think..
BTW the oil has been changed 4 times with both semi synthetic and full synthetic no difference.. The first time was at 750 miles just in case something was in it..
Good luck with yours.. If you make any discoveries let us know.. I will do the same...
Ron

2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
Livin at 9200 Feet lookin down at ya!
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post #4 of 13 Old 10-08-2019, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
OK, so I bought a new 2019 Grand Cherokee Trailhawk a few days ago, and brought it home after putting close to 600 miles on it. That was Friday when I rolled it into my garage. Today a friend stops over to see the new ride, and when I started it up, it sounded like someone had thrown a handful of marbles into the engine. Went away fairly quickly, as I suppose oil pressure built up, but dang! Oil level is just fine, and the oil looks brand new. Sure didn't hear that when I cranked up the engine while on the road in the morning and the Jeep sat overnight.

Is that normal for the hemi? I know the V6 in my 2015 Wrangler rattles a little bit when I start it up after sitting a few days, but this was quite loud and noticeable.

I'm going to let it sit for another 48 hours and see what happens then. If needed, I would have to take it to a local dealer, as the one I bought it from is a good 300 miles away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhusak View Post
Hi all..
I bought a 17 Overland at the end of that model year with a hemi... Mine has done the same thing since it was new... It is turning 24000 miles now and will do it from time to time.. I have left it with the dealer but naturally it doesn't do it then...
It is not one lifter.. As the OP says it rattles pretty good( light not heavy like a rod) for a couple of seconds.. Very disconcerting but hasn't been any detrimental effects as yet... I would almost think it would be a oil pump check valve or some such..
It is totally unpredictable when it happens other than it is always on a cold start..
Otherwise it runs terrific and no other issues..
Don't know what to think..
BTW the oil has been changed 4 times with both semi synthetic and full synthetic no difference.. The first time was at 750 miles just in case something was in it..
Good luck with yours.. If you make any discoveries let us know.. I will do the same...
Ron
Hi Rich Z and Ron,
We're sorry to hear that you are both experiencing a rattle concern. If you need additional assistance while working with your dealers, please feel free to send our team a private message. We'd be happy to connect you with a case specialist to assist.
Alex
Jeep Cares
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post #5 of 13 Old 10-08-2019, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
Rich Z
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I have been reading up on this rattle issue, and it seems to be pretty common. Some seem to feel it can be caused by starting up the engine, only letting it run a short while, then shutting it down. Then the next time you start it up, the rattle can appear. Something to do with the lifters not getting pumped up properly with a short duration engine run.

Then some are saying that the problem can be caused by an oil filter not properly retaining oil in it after engine shutdown. Not sure how this would be pertinent in a filter that is mounted underneath the engine, however. On something like the 3.6, I could see it being relevant. I haven't done an oil change and filter change on my 5.7 yet, but I believe the oil filter is oriented such that oil shouldn't flow out of it when the oil pump is off.

Perhaps oil viscosity? 20 weight oil is likely great for better gas mileage, but it also means it is going to flow out of areas more quickly when acted on by gravity. Personally I prefer 30 weight, but at least for my first couple of oil changes I will stick with the 20 weight. I've got some Pennzoil Ultra Platinum ready for when I get around to the first oil change. Waiting on a magnetic oil drain plug right now before I do it.

Planning on starting up the Trailhawk later today to see if it rattles again after being off for 2 days. So we shall see.

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post #6 of 13 Old 10-08-2019, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
I have been reading up on this rattle issue, and it seems to be pretty common. Some seem to feel it can be caused by starting up the engine, only letting it run a short while, then shutting it down. Then the next time you start it up, the rattle can appear. Something to do with the lifters not getting pumped up properly with a short duration engine run.

Then some are saying that the problem can be caused by an oil filter not properly retaining oil in it after engine shutdown. Not sure how this would be pertinent in a filter that is mounted underneath the engine, however. On something like the 3.6, I could see it being relevant. I haven't done an oil change and filter change on my 5.7 yet, but I believe the oil filter is oriented such that oil shouldn't flow out of it when the oil pump is off.

Perhaps oil viscosity? 20 weight oil is likely great for better gas mileage, but it also means it is going to flow out of areas more quickly when acted on by gravity. Personally I prefer 30 weight, but at least for my first couple of oil changes I will stick with the 20 weight. I've got some Pennzoil Ultra Platinum ready for when I get around to the first oil change. Waiting on a magnetic oil drain plug right now before I do it.

Planning on starting up the Trailhawk later today to see if it rattles again after being off for 2 days. So we shall see.
I’ve been using PP 5w-20 in mine, and will until the warranty is out (5w-20, May switch brands) for ease of argument. As far as the filter: I agree that I don’t see how it could be relevant on the Hemi. The lifters do rattle/tick at startup due to the MDS specialized design and the loss of pressure overnight.

My issue was more obviously from underneath. I narrowed it down to the exhaust and the dealer found a bad cat on the passenger side. It would rattle for 30 sec. - 1 minute and then stop.


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post #7 of 13 Old 10-09-2019, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
Rich Z
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Started it up today, and there was definitely an engine rattle. Not as noticeable with the hood closed, however. The wife and I were headed out to run some errands, but I'm going to give it a couple of days to sit, then set up to take video and audio when I start it up again.

Been reading over the user manual about oil and oil filters recommended for this Jeep and found the following:

Quote:
Engine Oil

Change Engine Oil — Gasoline Engine

Refer to “Scheduled Servicing” in this section for the
proper maintenance intervals.

NOTE: Under no circumstances should oil change intervals exceed 10,000 miles (16,000 km), 12 months or 350 hours of engine run time, whichever comes first. The 350 hours of engine run or idle time is generally only a concernfor fleet customers.

Gasoline Engine Oil Selection

For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer only recommends engine oils that are API Certified and meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395.

American Petroleum Institute (API) Engine Oil
Identification Symbol


** image removed because of some rule here **

This symbol means that the oil has been certified by the American Petroleum Institute (API). The manufacturer only recommends API Certified engine oils.

This symbol certifies 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30 engine
oils.

CAUTION!

Do not use chemical flushes in your engine oil as the chemicals can damage your engine. Such damage is not covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranty

Engine Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) — 5.7L Engine

Mopar SAE 5W-20 engine oil approved to FCA Material
Standard MS-6395 such as Pennzoil, Shell Helix or equivalent is recommended for all operating temperatures. This engine oil improves low temperature starting and vehicle fuel economy.

The engine oil filler cap also shows the recommended engine oil viscosity for your engine. For information on engine oil filler cap location, refer to the “Engine Compartment” illustration in this section.

NOTE: Vehicles equipped with a 5.7L engine must use SAE
5W-20 oil. Failure to do so may result in improper operation of the Fuel Saver Technology. Refer to “Fuel Saver Technology – If Equipped” in “Starting And Operating” for further information.

Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used.

Synthetic Engine Oils

You may use synthetic engine oils provided the recommended oil quality requirements are met, and the recommended maintenance intervals for oil and filter changes are followed.

Synthetic engine oils which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used.

Materials Added To Engine Oil

The manufacturer strongly recommends against the addition of any additives (other than leak detection dyes) to the engine oil. Engine oil is an engineered product and its performance may be impaired by supplemental additives.
Quote:
Engine Oil Filter

The engine oil filter should be replaced with a new filter at every engine oil change.

Engine Oil Filter Selection

This manufacturer’s engines have a full-flow type disposable oil filter. Use a filter of this type for replacement. The quality of replacement filters varies considerably. Only high quality filters should be used to assure most efficient
service. Mopar engine oil filters are high quality oil filters and are recommended.
The only thing I'm getting out of this is that the SAE 5W-20 oil is a requirement, whereas everything else is listed as just a recommendation.

Although I did buy a Mopar brand oil filter, for the upcoming oil change, I discovered that the oil filter is identical to those I was using with my LS7 engine on the car I traded in. Which I happen to have several of in the supplies cabinet in my garage.

So I guess the question is, is the engine rattle on startup, which is likely the lifters floating from losing oil pressure after sitting for a couple of days, causing any damage to the valve train? I'm retired and just don't drive every day. Besides that, this is not my only vehicle. Heck, I've had cars that would sit for a few months without being driven, and never had this sort of valve train noise upon startup. But none of them were a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler engine, neither.

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post #8 of 13 Old 10-10-2019, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
Started it up today, and there was definitely an engine rattle. Not as noticeable with the hood closed, however. The wife and I were headed out to run some errands, but I'm going to give it a couple of days to sit, then set up to take video and audio when I start it up again.

Been reading over the user manual about oil and oil filters recommended for this Jeep and found the following:

The only thing I'm getting out of this is that the SAE 5W-20 oil is a requirement, whereas everything else is listed as just a recommendation.

Although I did buy a Mopar brand oil filter, for the upcoming oil change, I discovered that the oil filter is identical to those I was using with my LS7 engine on the car I traded in. Which I happen to have several of in the supplies cabinet in my garage.

So I guess the question is, is the engine rattle on startup, which is likely the lifters floating from losing oil pressure after sitting for a couple of days, causing any damage to the valve train? I'm retired and just don't drive every day. Besides that, this is not my only vehicle. Heck, I've had cars that would sit for a few months without being driven, and never had this sort of valve train noise upon startup. But none of them were a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler engine, neither.
Ha! I’m doing the same thing. The Wix filters I had for my TBSS are the same size as OEM and I trust Wix. I also found one that has the same diameter but is longer, so I’m actually using it now.

As far as damage....it’s hard to say. In the big scheme of things, I think the actual number of lifter failures is small. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be pissed. But that’s what MaxCare is for, IMO.

Every vehicle has it’s share of big issues.


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post #9 of 13 Old 10-10-2019, 04:08 PM
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But that’s what MaxCare is for, IMO.

My 18 TH has done the same thing since new. I don’t even notice anymore.
I figure I have the lifetime MaxCare so nothing will ever go wrong.


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post #10 of 13 Old 10-10-2019, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
Rich Z
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Lifetime MaxCare doesn't do me much good, since as of December 1, 2018, it is no longer available for purchase, and I bought my Trailhawk just over a week ago.

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post #11 of 13 Old 10-11-2019, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
Rich Z
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Hmm. Went over to the garage today, set up the camcorder to record the expected valve train rattle. Started 'er up, and...... nothing. Purred like a contented kitten. Not that I am complaining, mind you.

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post #12 of 13 Old 10-11-2019, 08:50 PM
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I wonder if a rattle caused by the timing chain or tensioner is what you guys are hearing sometimes. The VVT system can create harmonics in the chain under some conditions, but I think mostly due to MDS operation.... from what I hear. Perhaps startup is another condition. What do you think?

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Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #13 of 13 Old 10-11-2019, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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If the duration of the rattler were long enough, then certain things could be monitored. Oil pressure, for instance, to see if it is abnormally low at start up. As it is, by the time I would be able to get the oil pressure to display on either one of the two displays, the problem has ended.

Can MDS be disabled such that it would not be active at engine startup? I know there is a button to disable "Eco mode" or whatever it is called, but as above, the rattle is too short in duration.

If the manual didn't specifically warn about using a heavier weight oil, I would try that.

The thing that concerns me is that I've been reading about lifter failures in the 5.7 that involved damaged rollers that in turn damages the camshaft. I'm guessing that if the lifters are making the noise, that can't be doing the lifter rollers much good being slapped by the camshaft lobes. IMHO, anyway.

At least it is all under warranty. But is sure would piss me off if slowly accumulating damage didn't cause a failure until the warranty had expired. This might be among the reasons why Jeep discontinued that lifetime warranty.

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