2015 WK2 Tranny Flush?? - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-06-2020, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
tarheel1400
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2015 WK2 Tranny Flush??

Hey guys,

What is considered lifetime in the tranny fluid in the 15 WK2?

Trying to decide if I should flush the fluid in transmission at 60k.


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post #2 of 33 Old 07-07-2020, 07:26 AM
ColdCase
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Check the owners manual. The 8 speed in 2015 has a lifetime fill, no need to touch it. If you tow heavy or race you may want to check it around 100,000 miles or so. Never flush a auto transmission (unless it full of debris), simply drain the pan and refill.
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post #3 of 33 Old 07-07-2020, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
tarheel1400
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Thanks, Cold case. It's just a commuter and stop and go traffic e mostly. A little mountain driving but no towing.

So would you suggest I consider a drain and fill at 100k or just leave it be till it needs worked on? Like to keep it for at least 200k if feasible.

Thanks!!

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post #4 of 33 Old 07-07-2020, 12:53 PM
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Not a simple answer, lots of opinions. There is a lot of opportunity to screw up a tranny oil change, from using the wrong or so called universal oil in a ZF transmission and not filling to the right level. So having the oil changed may do more harm than good. Most owners change their own fluid because of that concern.

You need to know if the fluid is burned, used up, or contaminated. I would have the fluid tested at 120,000 miles and if the condition is good, leave it. If it shows burned/overheated condition, or contamination, drain and fill. Friction material floating around is a good thing as it reduces clutch wear.

It gets a little more complicated in 2016 or so as a transmission oil heater was added that regulates oil temperature via a engine coolant heat exchanger. These can leak coolant into the transmission Oil and destroy it fairly quickly. So one may want to keep a keen eye on that or bypass the heater entirely. Shifts will be rougher in cold weather, however.

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post #5 of 33 Old 07-07-2020, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Check the owners manual. The 8 speed in 2015 has a lifetime fill, no need to touch it. If you tow heavy or race you may want to check it around 100,000 miles or so. Never flush a auto transmission (unless it full of debris), simply drain the pan and refill.
ZF originally stated lifetime on all their trannies, now they recommend 80k to 100k km (50k-62k miles) or 8 years. Attached is the document for the 8HP line of transmissions from the ZF website. Scroll to Page 7 for English.
.
Also shows the Chrysler line used Lifeguard 8.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 0068001_MH50130.pdf (1.95 MB, 8 views)

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post #6 of 33 Old 07-07-2020, 05:12 PM
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Is that PDF for the newer transmission with oil heater or the older ZF model Jeep installed in V6s in 2015?? There are so many variations and specs, I've lost track.

The transmissions built for Jeeps are made to a different spec that ZF made transmissions in general. I think ZF is protecting their behind from a class action suit for a faulty/unsuitable design, but that may just be me. A 50-75k miles interval is ridiculous now days for a decent transmission using modern oils (hard use excepted). Perhaps ZF is trying to help their bottom line and unload a stock of the pricy pans needed for the change..... or the design flaws are more serious than we thought, between coolant leaks ruining transmissions and wear material fine enough to get through the filter but then clogging up passageways... dunno, call me skeptical.

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post #7 of 33 Old 07-07-2020, 06:40 PM
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So annoying. Seems most manufacturers are doing this where they say lifetime fluid but then some dealers or other countries give a timeframe or interval.

Just tell us when to change it or if we should just leave it alone.


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post #8 of 33 Old 07-08-2020, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Is that PDF for the newer transmission with oil heater or the older ZF model Jeep installed in V6s in 2015?? There are so many variations and specs, I've lost track.

The transmissions built for Jeeps are made to a different spec that ZF made transmissions in general. I think ZF is protecting their behind from a class action suit for a faulty/unsuitable design, but that may just be me. A 50-75k miles interval is ridiculous now days for a decent transmission using modern oils (hard use excepted). Perhaps ZF is trying to help their bottom line and unload a stock of the pricy pans needed for the change..... or the design flaws are more serious than we thought, between coolant leaks ruining transmissions and wear material fine enough to get through the filter but then clogging up passageways... dunno, call me skeptical.
I show that is the tranny in the 2014 and up models JGC, but really it is irrelevant. The PDF is a detailed how-to on changing the fluid so the only difference between that and other model PDF's is the procedure. ZF universal guidance is to change the fluid on all their transmissions now...at least the ones I have seen the latest documentation. I am not saying anyone should do it or not, just pointing out what the vendor for the tranny says.

http://www.rightfootdown.com/cars/zf...mission-fluid/

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post #9 of 33 Old 07-08-2020, 09:18 AM
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one thing to note is the definition of lifetime. This seems to be 240,000 km (or 150,000 miles) or 8 years. I would listen to what your manuals says for your year (maybe even download the latest manual or ask FCA for the latest manual for your year). If you don't tow, and most of your driving is highway/freeway, I'd leave it alone or just listen to what you manual says. Definitely change it at the "lifetime" end.

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post #10 of 33 Old 07-08-2020, 09:18 AM
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Some questions, thoughts and extremely valuable free advice for your reading pleasure:

I do a simple ATF drain/filter change/refill to keep fluid fresh at 50k miles. After refilling, if you are comfortable with disconnecting ATF cooling lines and know which direction they flow, you can let the trans pump the fresh fluid to push out more out the old fluid. Refill again. Replaces more total % of the fluid. This as close to a “Flush” as I would risk. You still have to crawl under to do the refilll and dribble/level check at the right temp to be sure your are at correct level when done.

I stay away from a “Flush” at shops that use detergents. Theory is that lots of crud in an old trans will dissolve into chunks that block passages and create problems.

How long do you expect to/want to own the vehicle? How much city vs highway driving do you do? Towing? Lots of idling in a dessert climate? Do you do your own wrenching at home?

If you keep your cars for 20 years and 200kmiles, then do a drain/refill after 50kmiles and again at 100k. Or, believe the owner’s manual/Service Advisor that it’s a “lifetime fill”. (What’s their measure of lifetime?) Don’t even worry about it. What could possibly go wrong?

Or, If you have a Maxcare lifetime warranty with a $200 deductible, take the risk that Jeep will still warrant the fried tranny at 100k, 150k, or 200k miles and get a new one (or refurbished) to last another 50k miles before you get sick of the car. You pay the $200 deductible and hopefully that is all good. Or, maybe they will say, “No, we can’t give you a replacement because cost exceeds the entire value of the depreciated old vehicle”....And you have to buy a new tranny or dump the car. You could have spent the $200 on ATF/filter change at 50k-75kmiles as preventative maintenance in your driveway.

Did FiatChrysler-manufacture the Jeep transmission even more betterer than the German-designed/manufactured version used in MB ML class SUVs and E/S-class cars? The 8-speed is sort of new (2015 ?) and sort of matches the MB 8/9-speed model from which it was derived. But MB doesn’t do lifetime ATF (anymore).

My 2003 MB USA sedan (5-speed 722.6 model trans) shipped with the old “lifetime ATF fill/no problema” platitudes, which was rescinded 5 years later with a service bulletin from MBUSA, “We changed our minds; suggest the fluid should be changed at 50k”. (I had already changed mine at 40k). All other MB cars worldwide had never said “lifetime fill”. Only MBUSA sold them with the empty promise.

My 2004 Audi wagon shipped with “Lifetime fill” promise. Changed ATF at 40k and 80k.

My wife’s 2010 Infinity shipped with “Lifetime fill”. Changed ATF at 50k.

Did the Chrysler ATF get vastly superior in the past 5-10 years? Probably. But seals and O-rings and plastics still get brittle, valves wear, bands/clutch packs wear, friction modifiers in the fluid oxidize, gear teeth wear, metal shavings can bypass clogged filters...Change the fluid.

So, I suggest changing ATF (drain/drop the pan filter/refill), because that’s what I do and have never lost a car due to transmission problems. (That includes the ‘94 and ‘96 Jeep Grand Cherokees at 220k and 160k miles before rust consumed them).
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post #11 of 33 Old 07-08-2020, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks to all for responses and input.

I just spoke to my service advisor again who spoke to his level 3 Master mechanic who confirmed the fluid should only be changed out in the event of a repair.

He said I should be able to get 150-200k out of it assuming everything functions as designed. Definitely seems like he's steering me away from it.

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post #12 of 33 Old 07-08-2020, 04:47 PM
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Yup. They are probably right. Odds are you won’t still own the car if/when it fails.

It comes down to the chances of failures due to OE fluid, and what it will cost to fix if it happens ($3k-$4k). Usually failure is preceded with weird shifting, slipping, slamming into gear, vibrations, hesitant shifts, or “limp home” mode at an inconvenient time. I would rather pay for peace of mind preventative maintenance.

(My free advice is worth what you paid for it. 😉. )
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post #13 of 33 Old 07-08-2020, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Going to ask the dealer I trust to check the fluid for me and let me know what he thinks. If it looks good may push it to 100k, that seem like a safe bet?

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post #14 of 33 Old 07-09-2020, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheel1400 View Post
Going to ask the dealer I trust to check the fluid for me and let me know what he thinks. If it looks good may push it to 100k, that seem like a safe bet?
Actually, if you push to 100k don't do it at all. ZF is a widely used transmission across many brands, one common theme I have seen is a certain number transmission failures when changing fluid at high mileage. My local BMW dealer wouldn't change fluid as an elective procedure for that reason, too many people would come back and claim they had screwed up and ruined the tranny. Seems that all the components get worn and settled with time and use and as they would tell me, the sudden change in viscosity causes failure.

I will say that there are many who successfully change the fluid even in high mileage cars, it isn't a guarantee that yours will be one in the low percentage that fail. Below is a recent one in the ZF failure club, BMW has more...

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...cement-232161/

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post #15 of 33 Old 07-09-2020, 12:35 PM
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its hard to tell whether the failures they talk about here, are simply due to changing the fluid, i,e the exchanging of the fluid itself, shouldn't cause it. Things can definitely go wrong if its not done correctly, for sure. Perhaps the levels are off, debris is stuck in the channels (external or internal), etc. Either way, for the OP, I definitely wouldn't change it at 60K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tampamark View Post
Actually, if you push to 100k don't do it at all. ZF is a widely used transmission across many brands, one common theme I have seen is a certain number transmission failures when changing fluid at high mileage. My local BMW dealer wouldn't change fluid as an elective procedure for that reason, too many people would come back and claim they had screwed up and ruined the tranny. Seems that all the components get worn and settled with time and use and as they would tell me, the sudden change in viscosity causes failure.

I will say that there are many who successfully change the fluid even in high mileage cars, it isn't a guarantee that yours will be one in the low percentage that fail. Below is a recent one in the ZF failure club, BMW has more...

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...cement-232161/

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