2012 Laredo X Hemi stalled in traffic. Need your voice to be heard. - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 57 Old 05-23-2021, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Talking 2012 Laredo X Hemi stalled in traffic. Need your voice to be heard.

Hey all,

Yesterday, my new to me Jeep (only one week old from picking it up from a dealership) stalled at an intersection making a left turn. No warning lights or anything. I had to throw it into Park, start it up, and pull back to the left turn lane. Luckily no one was behind me. This is an extremely dangerous issue that Chrysler has now known about for over 8 years or more!
I have read that this is a very common thing with the GC and the Hemi engine. Chrysler/Jeep has replaced fuel pumps, and relays, and told people to get new TIMPís to no avail!

Can we start a poll here on Jeep Forums or something, to document how many people have had this issue, and what exactly happens please? We need to push back and get this resolved before someone dies! I have never in my life been in a vehicle that does not at least warn you that the engine just stalled!

Maybe we can document from all the users on this forum what happens, and how many times it has happened, what the model and year is, and the conditions?
I believe this would be very helpful in coming up with a possible solution to this horrible issue of ours, as well and collecting data from many Jeep owners together to send to Chrysler/Jeep.

Please let me know your feelings, and your feedback. We need voices, and we need to put our heads together to fix this once and for all. Children, husbands, and wives travel in hundreds of thousands of these Jeepís...most likely millions all together. Letís come together to brings this to Chrysler/Jeep as a collective front!

Please let me know what you all think.
Thanks so much!


2012 Laredo X HEMI 4x4
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post #2 of 57 Old 05-23-2021, 09:02 PM
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I get your frustration with it. Had an 11 that had major issue and now a 12 overland 5.7 with the same problems. The fuel relay and tipm is a mess. I've been waiting for the updated recall now for months. No ETA even. A win module and new fobs fixed most of my stalling problems with my 12 for now. I'm not sure I want the new recall even with it not being test by the actual consumer. The first recall to add the fuel relay involves cutting into our harnesses and the repair is only as good as the tech is. Jeep has left us in the dust with fixing our stalling issue since the 2011 5.7 came out.

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post #3 of 57 Old 05-23-2021, 09:35 PM
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Stalling during turns is a little different than the problem the fuel pump relay tried to address. I think there is a thread round here where a member added spacer/short screws to the PCM mount and it solve the stalling on turn problem. When I get back I'll try to seach the forum for stalling and try to find it.

The V6 seemed to have more of an issue than the V8, however. But then there are a lot more of them. Theirs is often alternator/PCM regulator issue I think. Wasn't there a TSB or recall on that? Then the electric power steering pump tended to bring down the B+ voltage enough to stall the Jeep.

I believe someone started a poll, maybe 5-6 years ago, I'll have to see if I can find it. If I recall correctly, there were so few that exprienced the issue it didn't go anywhere.

Regardless, its a serious problem when it happens to you.
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I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
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post #4 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodsy18 View Post
I get your frustration with it. Had an 11 that had major issue and now a 12 overland 5.7 with the same problems. The fuel relay and tipm is a mess. I've been waiting for the updated recall now for months. No ETA even. A win module and new fobs fixed most of my stalling problems with my 12 for now. I'm not sure I want the new recall even with it not being test by the actual consumer. The first recall to add the fuel relay involves cutting into our harnesses and the repair is only as good as the tech is. Jeep has left us in the dust with fixing our stalling issue since the 2011 5.7 came out.

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Yes...it is super frustrating, and super scary as well. I drive my daughter to school in this Jeep.
As well...no warnings, or no codes??!! How is that even legal for them to produce a vehicle that has no warning when the engine stalls? That alone should be a class action law suite!

Has anyone at all come up with a 100% known fix for this? Do we have to do multiple things like the win module and new fobs and a new fuel relay harness? I also read where there may be a short in the crankshaft position sensor wiring, and they were not secured far enough from the front differential, causing the insulation to wear through, and short it out.

I can't imagine that after 8 years of complaints and recalls, the Chrysler/Jeep engineers don't know what is causing this! My guess is its too expensive to replace with a recall...so they are sweeping everything under the rug, not caring about serious injury or even death.
This is totally uncalled for. I have been a Jeep owner all my life going back to 1988.
If the dealership it is sitting at now cannot figure this out...I may contact my attorney to see what can be done about it.
Thankfully we have a lemon law here in Wisconsin. That may be an option as well...as I feel this stalling issue will definitely rear its ugly head again...even with a "fix" from the dealership. If that happens.

Thanks for the reply...I really appreciate it.
Anyone else out there that has experienced this?

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post #5 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Stalling during turns is a little different than the problem the fuel pump relay tried to address. I think there is a thread round here where a member added spacer/short screws to the PCM mount and it solve the stalling on turn problem. When I get back I'll try to seach the forum for stalling and try to find it.

The V6 seemed to have more of an issue than the V8, however. But then there are a lot more of them. Theirs is often alternator/PCM regulator issue I think. Wasn't there a TSB or recall on that? Then the electric power steering pump tended to bring down the B+ voltage enough to stall the Jeep.

I believe someone started a poll, maybe 5-6 years ago, I'll have to see if I can find it. If I recall correctly, there were so few that experienced the issue it didn't go anywhere.

Regardless, its a serious problem when it happens to you.
Thank you for the reply.
If you can find the poll...that would be helpful.
I am not letting this one go...Chrylser/Jeep needs to be held responsible for this crazy flaw in their vehicles.
We cannot be driving around in our Jeeps...wondering when the next stall is going to happen. I am now avoiding all freeway travel with this Jeep...and that alone is causing major inconveniences in my every day life.
Thanks for the help with this...it is appreciated.

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post #6 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 12:17 PM
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By far most don't have this kind of problem, when they do its a nightmare to figure out, and there are a variety of possible faults, not one thing fixes all Jeeps.

I didn't find the poll, but the long threads below seems to sum things up. There were several different fixes reported to work, from brake booster replacement, check valve replacement, to replacing plugs, to replacing the battery, to replacing the relay, to cleaning the throttle body, to fixing a short in the turn signals, to replacing the throttle body, to using premium fuel, to replacing an intermittent crankshaft or camshaft sensor, to redoing the relay recall, to replacing the fuel pump, to replacing the PCM ..... Replacing the TIPM or going through every connection to assure is tight and corrosion free doesn't seem to provide any joy most of the time.

The bottom line is it seems Jeep isn't going to help short of encouraging the dealer to give you a good deal on a replacement Jeep, but that depends on the dealer.

So the advice is complain enough that there is a good trade in deal, move on to another vehicle, report it to the NTSA.. or hire a lawyer. I don't know of an auto manufacture that won't walk away from a older problem vehicle, Toyota, GM, Nissan... you name it. Some walk away from new like GM. You can make it as painful as possible, but they have already written you off as well as the bad press.

To meet EPA standard, these engines are running on the hairy edge of stability and it doesn't take much to throw them off and stall them. Solution... think electric cars


https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309...aking-1556132/

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309...lling-3485874/


By the way, I have been driving several vehicles, different brands, that don't immediately warn of a stall beside maybe a little check engine light or the steering feeling different.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
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post #7 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 02:08 PM
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I have an 11 with hemi and previous owner had first fuel pump relay recall done. I started having stalling issues a few months after I bought it used in 2015. It would stall out usually when it was raining. It wouldn't do it very often. I could go months before it would happen. It was scary because you never knew it stalled. I would be sitting at a light and step on the gas and wonder why I wasn't going anywhere. I ended up buying a relay and rewiring the hack job they did and everything has been fine since. Since I saw that the new recall only replaces the relay instead of the whole tipm I will not be getting it done since I already did it myself.

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post #8 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
By far most don't have this kind of problem, when they do its a nightmare to figure out, and there are a variety of possible faults, not one thing fixes all Jeeps.

I didn't find the poll, but the long threads below seems to sum things up. There were several different fixes reported to work, from brake booster replacement, check valve replacement, to replacing plugs, to replacing the battery, to replacing the relay, to cleaning the throttle body, to fixing a short in the turn signals, to replacing the throttle body, to using premium fuel, to replacing an intermittent crankshaft or camshaft sensor, to redoing the relay recall, to replacing the fuel pump, to replacing the PCM ..... Replacing the TIPM or going through every connection to assure is tight and corrosion free doesn't seem to provide any joy most of the time.

The bottom line is it seems Jeep isn't going to help short of encouraging the dealer to give you a good deal on a replacement Jeep, but that depends on the dealer.

So the advice is complain enough that there is a good trade in deal, move on to another vehicle, report it to the NTSA.. or hire a lawyer. I don't know of an auto manufacture that won't walk away from a older problem vehicle, Toyota, GM, Nissan... you name it. Some walk away from new like GM. You can make it as painful as possible, but they have already written you off as well as the bad press.

To meet EPA standard, these engines are running on the hairy edge of stability and it doesn't take much to throw them off and stall them. Solution... think electric cars


https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309...aking-1556132/

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309...lling-3485874/


By the way, I have been driving several vehicles, different brands, that don't immediately warn of a stall beside maybe a little check engine light or the steering feeling different.

Very good points. I really appreciate the input.
If there are that many ďfixesĒ...I am really doubtful that the dealership will even say they found anything wrong.
How is someone supposed to even start trying to fix this issue? Do I start with the throttle body, or turn signal? Maybe the brake booster, or maybe the battery? How much is someone supposed to pay out of pocket to fix a potentially deadly issue that the auto maker refuses to address?

Chrysler needs to be held responsible for this, and the repairs done to their flawed vehicles. If this was just a new issue, I wouldnít be so upset.
But my Jeep is a 2012. That is over nine years now that they have had this issue with these Jeepís, and have done nothing but recall the fuel harness.

Anyone with this issue please respond to this post.
It will help us all...as this issue is going nowhere!

As well....if anyone has a fix that is known to last, please let us all know.
I really appreciate all of you...and all the help, and input.
Thank you.
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post #9 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalhead View Post
I have an 11 with hemi and previous owner had first fuel pump relay recall done. I started having stalling issues a few months after I bought it used in 2015. It would stall out usually when it was raining. It wouldn't do it very often. I could go months before it would happen. It was scary because you never knew it stalled. I would be sitting at a light and step on the gas and wonder why I wasn't going anywhere. I ended up buying a relay and rewiring the hack job they did and everything has been fine since. Since I saw that the new recall only replaces the relay instead of the whole tipm I will not be getting it done since I already did it myself.
Hey metalhead...a name after my own heart. Grew up listening to all types of metal, and still do at 47!
Thank you for the reply.
Do you have any instructions and pictures on how to do this for all of us still dealing with this very scary issue?
Since you have done this...has it stalled at all? How long has it gone if it has not?

Thanks in advance! 🤘

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post #10 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 04:49 PM
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The recall kit is more than a relay. It does include a different relay, but if the tech is competent, most of the hacking is removed and more durable components and harness installed.

Many in the industry think the relays fail eventually because there is a bunch of over current fuel pumps out there stressing the contacts. The proper fix is to replace out of spec pumps and repair the damage they did, but I suspect there are beens being counted differently.

But again, fuel pump/relay is only one of several possible causes of stalling, and it doesn't seem to be the most probable. Doesn't hurt to try. There is a thread with detailed instructions for removing FCA's patch and installing either a third party of custom workaround. One member here caused more problems in his attempt, however. You need to have pretty good electrical tech skills.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
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post #11 of 57 Old 05-24-2021, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
The recall kit is more than a relay. It does include a different relay, but if the tech is competent, most of the hacking is removed and more durable components and harness installed.

Many in the industry think the relays fail eventually because there is a bunch of over current fuel pumps out there stressing the contacts. The proper fix is to replace out of spec pumps and repair the damage they did, but I suspect there are beens being counted differently.

But again, fuel pump/relay is only one of several possible causes of stalling, and it doesn't seem to be the most probable. Doesn't hurt to try. There is a thread with detailed instructions for removing FCA's patch and installing either a third party of custom workaround. One member here caused more problems in his attempt, however. You need to have pretty good electrical tech skills.
Thanks for this information....I am sure it will be helpful to someone with electrical skills.
Unfortunately, I do not fall into this impressive group.
So what alternative do I have?

Is there something I can ask the tech that is handling my Jeep to do or look for?
They are actually keeping it overnight for another day, because they could not figure out went wrong.
I am actually very impressed with them. Rather than sweep it under the rug, and say ďwe couldnít duplicate the problem, or found any codes that detail what happenedĒ...they are actually trying to fix it. Awesome job by the dealership.
Thanks again for all the help and input to all who have responded...and all that will.
Take care!

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post #12 of 57 Old 05-25-2021, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewcity73 View Post
Hey metalhead...a name after my own heart. Grew up listening to all types of metal, and still do at 47!
Thank you for the reply.
Do you have any instructions and pictures on how to do this for all of us still dealing with this very scary issue?
Since you have done this...has it stalled at all? How long has it gone if it has not?

Thanks in advance! 🤘
I'm 51 and still bang my head to metal. I didn't take any pictures sorry. I do vehicle electrical work for a living so it was an easy job for me. I got a relay kit from amazon and got the recall kit from the dealer. I printed out the instructions on how do do the recall. I think I got those from WK2jeep.com. I also have a subscription to alldatadiy.com so I could get a wiring diagram. The recall instructions are pretty clear and have color pictures. I have not had any problems since I installed the new relay and redid the wiring and its been a year now.
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post #13 of 57 Old 05-26-2021, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
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UPDATE:

The Jeep dealership called, and wants to keep my Jeep for a 3rd day.
They said they cannot replicate the stalling issue.
They checked all the wiring harnesses, and said the fuel pump relay recall was done. So there is really nothing they can do.
They are trying one more day to test drive the Jeep to see if it will stall. If not, they are giving it back to me as it was. Nothing done.
I am impressed that they 2ant to try to figure this out....but just a simple search online would have produced hundreds of results and a lot of possible fixes. I know one cannot throw a bunch of money and time at a problem if they donít know for 100% it will work.

This is where the problem lies with Chrysler /Jeep. They have swept things under the rug for soooooo long now, they canít admit there is a problem....there are no codes to prove there is a problem, and if they really know of a fix(which I believe they do)...itís too expensive to fix at this point, like a torque converter.
What are we to do....I just purchased this Jeep, and I canít sell it in this market for what it is worth.
So I am no stuck driving a death trap...never knowing when the car will shut off.
I donít want to sell it to someone else knowing of this issue either....so again stuck with a death trap.
I will not let this end. I will continue to fight. I have a ticket open with Jeep customer service, and will update as things progress.
Please add your thoughts, known fixes, or issues you have had and what year.
Thank you.

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post #14 of 57 Old 05-26-2021, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewcity73 View Post
UPDATE:

The Jeep dealership called, and wants to keep my Jeep for a 3rd day.
They said they cannot replicate the stalling issue.
They checked all the wiring harnesses, and said the fuel pump relay recall was done. So there is really nothing they can do.
They are trying one more day to test drive the Jeep to see if it will stall. If not, they are giving it back to me as it was. Nothing done.
I am impressed that they 2ant to try to figure this out....but just a simple search online would have produced hundreds of results and a lot of possible fixes. I know one cannot throw a bunch of money and time at a problem if they donít know for 100% it will work.

This is where the problem lies with Chrysler /Jeep. They have swept things under the rug for soooooo long now, they canít admit there is a problem....there are no codes to prove there is a problem, and if they really know of a fix(which I believe they do)...itís too expensive to fix at this point, like a torque converter.
What are we to do....I just purchased this Jeep, and I canít sell it in this market for what it is worth.
So I am no stuck driving a death trap...never knowing when the car will shut off.
I donít want to sell it to someone else knowing of this issue either....so again stuck with a death trap.
I will not let this end. I will continue to fight. I have a ticket open with Jeep customer service, and will update as things progress.
Please add your thoughts, known fixes, or issues you have had and what year.
Thank you.
My thoughts are that it sucks, for all involved.
BUT, you have a 10 year old car, and know that any car that old can and will have problems. There is a known issue that they addressed and said is working. The hundreds of results are all probably "TIPM" which is really "A relay fails" And since the "I" in TIPM is "Integrated" the solution is to replace TONS of stuff, or just wire in an external relay. To me, this is just something that you take in and get it fixed, and if it fails again (I truly hope not) then have a diagnostic procedure setup ahead of time. I am considering wiring up an indicator LED for the fuel pump relay on both sides, energizing coil, and feed to pump, just for kicks.
I would assume you have zero fight in this with something that old, unless you have factory extended warranty.
SO, to sum up, all I can suggest is to be prepared to find out what the actual cause is the next time it happens.
A voltmeter would be nice to have handy. Check battery voltage engine off for a couple min, then engine running. Then IF it happens again, check voltage again. Check power going to the fuel pump, check fuel pump pressure, all simple and very cheap things to do.
There are literally TWO MILLION of them on the road, they aren't dropping like flies out there clogging up the highways. Unless the dealership finds anything, this will be primarily on you, the owner to diagnose/prevent.
Also if this happened days after buying it, obviously it could be the reason the previous owner got rid of it. Maybe check service history and see if it was attempted to be fixed in the past, might learn some more about it. Maybe even buy the carfax report for it if you don't have it.

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post #15 of 57 Old 05-26-2021, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WK2Overland4X4 View Post
My thoughts are that it sucks, for all involved.
BUT, you have a 10 year old car, and know that any car that old can and will have problems. There is a known issue that they addressed and said is working. The hundreds of results are all probably "TIPM" which is really "A relay fails" And since the "I" in TIPM is "Integrated" the solution is to replace TONS of stuff, or just wire in an external relay. To me, this is just something that you take in and get it fixed, and if it fails again (I truly hope not) then have a diagnostic procedure setup ahead of time. I am considering wiring up an indicator LED for the fuel pump relay on both sides, energizing coil, and feed to pump, just for kicks.
I would assume you have zero fight in this with something that old, unless you have factory extended warranty.
SO, to sum up, all I can suggest is to be prepared to find out what the actual cause is the next time it happens.
A voltmeter would be nice to have handy. Check battery voltage engine off for a couple min, then engine running. Then IF it happens again, check voltage again. Check power going to the fuel pump, check fuel pump pressure, all simple and very cheap things to do.
There are literally TWO MILLION of them on the road, they aren't dropping like flies out there clogging up the highways. Unless the dealership finds anything, this will be primarily on you, the owner to diagnose/prevent.
Also if this happened days after buying it, obviously it could be the reason the previous owner got rid of it. Maybe check service history and see if it was attempted to be fixed in the past, might learn some more about it. Maybe even buy the Carfax report for it if you don't have it.
Hello...thank you for the input. I appreciate it.
Yes, it totally sucks. There are millions of ten year old cars on the road that don't just shut down without warning while driving in traffic.
I was driving a 2007 Infiniti M35x...a 14 year old car, and it never shut down while driving. so that's definitely not a reason to just accept this as normal, and let Chrysler/Jeep off the hook.

I see your point...its an old car. But that does not excuse a known and well documented manufacturer flaw in electrical design. This does happen a lot...to a lot of people. Maybe not millions...but thousands and thousands of people. The vast majority don't even document on forums, or with the NTSB...they just trade it in or sell it.

I always look at a Carfax report before buying any car, and have it looked at by my mechanic.
This one had all recalls done, including the fuel pump replay, and was extremely well maintained.
That recall didn't work...so its back at the dealership less than ten days after I purchased it.
That's crazy!! It was done in 2019...and fails within 2 years. Totally unacceptable.
I am sure you would not want to put yourself, or your family, in a car that will spontaneously shut off while driving. Not to mention all the other individuals around me driving next to me, in front of me, or behind me that I could potential injure or kill in a crash.

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