2011 GC dash went haywire at 70mph, now no crank no start - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-17-2021, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
Longpants
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2011 GC dash went haywire at 70mph, now no crank no start

2011 Laredo, 3.6L


Driving on interstate @ 70mph and check engine light comes on then tire pressure light then others variously. I was able to exit and make it to a parking lot and killed it. There was a very small amount of smoke coming from engine (I think), but it wasnt much and didn't last long. I may have hallucinated..... It wouldn't start again, no crank. Wipers would engage randomly without turning them on. Dashboard lights seemed to be random also, some on some off. I had it towed to my house and here we are. I installed a brand new battery since it was old anyway.

With new battery in place, wipers function normally, headlights good, horn good, power seat good, a/c fan good, radio dead. When key is turned to on/run position the red lightning bolt symbol lights up as does engine, gas, tire pressure, etc. The blower fan started running one time when I turned key on but then hasn't repeated on follow up attempts.

When I turn the key on I hear one click under the hood (I think coming from K1 or K2), then when I turn key to the run position there's a single click inside drivers door at or near the power locks switches. These two clicks are consistent every time I turn key to on then run.

HELP!!

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post #2 of 20 Old 10-17-2021, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Forgot to mention, I disconnected the TIPM and found something odd in the white 50-pin connector. In pin 40 there's an approximate 1 inch piece of solid black wire stuck in it. The end of the 1 inch looks cut but I can't find anywhere this wire would have connected to. That can't possibly be there normally can it? I bought the car used several years ago so this might have been there the whole time, just don't know.
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post #3 of 20 Old 10-17-2021, 02:00 PM
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Sounds like an electrical problem. You need to put a voltmeter and measure the voltage at the starting relays (TIPM and starter). It may be useful to read the DTCs. Can you turn the engine over by hand. There was a recent thread on something similar, turned out to be the starter motor. The first starter he got was also defective.

Anyway, does the starter motor solenoid click? If not, remove the starter relay connector from the starter solenoid. Read the voltage coming from the relay when starting. If that looks good, check the battery cable voltage there. I don't recall how tight the access is. That may be easier said than done. Measure the continuity of the starter ground to chassis ground and the battery (-) to chassis ground.

Perhaps the wire was left there as part of the relay recall effort. Pin 40 is the fuel pump relay coil control. Thats grounded by the PCM to turn on the pump. Don't recall off hand what the recall did. There is a PDF around here somewhere. A problem with that circuit will cause a crank but no start condition.
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Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-17-2021, 02:12 PM
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The initial relay recall has the tech cutting the brown wire in pin 40 one inch from the connector, then shrink tube to insulate it. The connector side wire is no longer used. The harness side brown wire is spliced into the new relay harness. The connector wire stub looks black because of the shrink tube.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-18-2021, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
The initial relay recall has the tech cutting the brown wire in pin 40 one inch from the connector, then shrink tube to insulate it. The connector side wire is no longer used. The harness side brown wire is spliced into the new relay harness. The connector wire stub looks black because of the shrink tube.
OK that sounds like a good explanation. Regarding the TIPM itself, can the entire TIPM need to be replaced if most components are working? (a/c fan, headlights, interior lights, door locks, wipers, horn, all work fine)
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post #6 of 20 Old 10-18-2021, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Can you turn the engine over by hand.
I haven't tried that but I will. (youtube here I come...).



Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
Anyway, does the starter motor solenoid click? If not, remove the starter relay connector from the starter solenoid. Read the voltage coming from the relay when starting. If that looks good, check the battery cable voltage there. I don't recall how tight the access is. That may be easier said than done. Measure the continuity of the starter ground to chassis ground and the battery (-) to chassis ground.
I'll check this out as well. There is a single click but it sounds like it's coming from the fuse box and not down by the starter itself. Then when the key turns to the run position there is a single click in the drivers door at the power lock switches.... WTF is that?
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post #7 of 20 Old 10-20-2021, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like an electrical problem.
I found this when digging around last night, any thoughts? Plugs in on lower left side of engine


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post #8 of 20 Old 10-31-2021, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
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Not that any of you **** care but I replaced the TIPM but the same no crank no start problem exists. The stereo and rear a/c are working now so I got a lil something out of the new TIPM (rebuilt). Basically I'm at square one so......
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-31-2021, 09:34 AM
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I can't picture your photo, don't have a V6. Is that at the base of the belt tensioner? Is that a ground connection? Could it be connected to the oil pump? I think there is a two wire temp sensor and a three wire pressure sensor there. There is also a two wire oil pump solenoid.

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #10 of 20 Old 10-31-2021, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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I can't picture your photo, don't have a V6. Is that at the base of the belt tensioner? Is that a ground connection? Could it be connected to the oil pump? I think there is a two wire temp sensor and a three wire pressure sensor there. There is also a two wire oil pump solenoid.
It's near the bottom of the engine just behind the belt area. I cleaned it up real good and taped each wire up individually. It doesn't appear to be relevant to my problem.


So battery is good, TIPM is good, all fuses and relays are good. All grounds in the engine that I could find are clean and snug. I tried jiggling starter wires, disconnected and reconnected the yellow wire to the starter solenoid some people report as having problems. I hit the starter with a hammer. No difference. I'm assuming it's not the starter.


Going after the NSS next I guess.
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post #11 of 20 Old 10-31-2021, 11:03 AM
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What happens when you apply a bit of battery power to the solenoid terminal (yellow wire). Don't be in the way of any moving parts if you try this. And you did double check fuse J17?

I just got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory;
Current: 2011 Grand Cherokee Overland V8, 2009 Liberty Rocky Mt V6
Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-31-2021, 03:22 PM
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Sounds like a corrosion problem.

South Main Auto has some good YT vids to watch.


Was thinking of getting a 12V power probe and figuring out how it works for troubleshooting.
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post #13 of 20 Old 11-01-2021, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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What happens when you apply a bit of battery power to the solenoid terminal (yellow wire). Don't be in the way of any moving parts if you try this. And you did double check fuse J17?
I've never done that. Do I just jump it from the battery? Do I need to attach the jumper cable ground to the starter or can it just clip on anywhere metal?


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And you did double check fuse J17?
Will do today.


Thanks for your continue thoughts/suggestions
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post #14 of 20 Old 11-01-2021, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like a corrosion problem.
was thinking of getting a 12V power probe and figuring out how it works for troubleshooting.

Cooling fan is working. I replaced the fuse box and don't see any corrosion anywhere. It's certainly possible though. I might have to snip open the plastic wire tubes and try to check every wire as far as I can see it.....
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post #15 of 20 Old 11-01-2021, 02:22 PM
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A solenoid is attached to the starter that engages the starter gear and connects high amp power to the starter motor. That solenoid closes the circuit when battery voltage is applied to the smaller (yellow wire) terminal. It takes a bit of juice to close the solenoid. Normally the juice is provided via the starter relay. When you bypass the relays, etc and apply battery voltage directly to the small terminal (careful, the large terminal always is live, connected to the battery) the solenoid should click in and the starter should spin. If the starter doesn't spin or the solenoid doesn't click then is a good chance the starter is defective. If the starter kicks in but doesn't turn the engine, there is a good chance the engine is seised. In the old days there was usually enough room to short directly across the two solenoid terminals. Too bad its so hard to remove the starter, as usually you just pull it and bench test.

Otherwise here is the early model no crank troubleshooting procedure:


NOTE: The No Crank Diagnostic serves as an aid in diagnosing the concern and is intended to be used as a general guide, since each condition can be different.

The No Crank Diagnostic Test assumes all of the following to be true:

•The condition is currently present.
•The TCM, PCM, WIN, TIPM and PEM (if equipped) are at the latest calibration (part number) levels.
•There are no active DTCs.
•There are no applicable Recalls.
•There are no applicable TSBs
•There are no PCM inhibits (i.e. RPM, Trans Range, Clutch)
•The Keys/FOBs/FOBIKs complete function and operation is correct.
•All battery cables and connections are clean and tight.
•There are no open fuses.
•The battery is fully charged and can pass a load test from the GR8 tester.
•The engine rotates freely.
•Any aftermarket equipment/wiring that has been added was installed and is operating correctly.

Starter Relay Operation

In a no crank condition the Starter Relay can be missing power at pin 85, feed at pin 30, controlled ground at pin 86 or output at pin 87. Further explanation of how a relay operates is listed below.

•Pin 85 receives power from the TIPM once the parameters for the Ignition Switch position and status, and all inhibit monitors (i.e. clutch switch, RPM, etc.) are satisfied.
•Pin 30 is a constant B+ feed.
•Pin 86 is a controlled ground by a module (i.e. PCM or BCM). Once power is sent from the TIPM to the pin 85 of the relay it passes through a coil and leaves the relay through pin 86 to control module.
•Pin 87 is an output circuit to the Starter solenoid. Once the circuit on pin 86 is grounded by the control module, the coil winding in the relay magnetically pulls the internal switch closed. When the internal switch is closed the power at pin 30 is sent to pin 87 of the relay.

Diagnostic Test


1. STARTER RELAY CHECK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. When attempting to start the vehicle, listen and if needed feel for a click at the starter relay.

NOTE:
Some starter relays are internal to a module and may not be accessible, making it more difficult to hear, or feel the clicking response. It is possible for a poor ground or Trans Range Sensor position could be lost causing the starter to click once.

Did you hear an audible click at the relay or starter?

Yes

•Go To 9

No

•Go To 2



2. STARTER RELAY INPUT CHECK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Using a 12 volt test light/DVOM to check for power at/going to pin 85 of the starter relay.

Is there Power/12 volts at pin 85?

Yes

•Go To 8

No

•Go To 3



3. WIN OPERATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Using the scan tool, confirm the ignition switch status changes in the WIN under the data display screen, when using the FOBIKs in the WIN.

NOTE:
For Passive Entry Module (PEM) equipped vehicles remove the optional Ignition Switch (Stop/Start) button with a trim stick. Once the removable Ignition Switch button for the WIN is removed, an empty slot is available for the FOBIK to be placed in to cycle the ignition.



Does the ignition switch status on the data display screen match the physical position of the FOBIK in the WIN?

Yes

•Go To 5

No

•Go To 4



4. REMOTE START ANTENNA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE:
If the vehicle is not equipped with Remote Start, proceed to the next test step.

1. Cycle the ignition off.

2. Disconnect the Remote Start Antenna from the WIN.

3. Using one FOBIK and sitting in the driver’s seat, attempt to start the vehicle.

Did the vehicle start?

Yes

•Replace the Remote Start Antenna in accordance with the Service Information.
•Perform the BODY VERIFICATION TEST.

No

•Go To 5



5. TIPM IGNITION STATUS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Using the scan tool confirm the ignition switch status changes in the TIPM under the data display screen for the “Bussed Input” and “Sensor” values.

NOTE:
The change of status in the TIPM for the “Sensor” value validates the voltage activity (with very low amperage) of the F20 circuit.

In the TIPM, do both values for the ignition switch status match; and do they match those in the WIN?

Yes

•Go To 6

No

•If the status of the Ignition Switch position is not changing under the “Sensor” value, check the F20 circuit at the TIPM for battery voltage with a DVOM (not a test light).
•If there is Battery voltageat the TIPM on the F20 circuit verify all power, ground and bus circuits for the TIPM. If no problem found replace the TIPM in accordance with Service Information. (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/MODULE, Totally Integrated Power (TIPM)/Removal).
•If there is NO Battery voltageat the TIPM on the F20 circuit, then check for voltage on the F20 circuit at the WIN.
•If there is Battery voltagecoming out of the WIN on the F20circuit, check the F20 circuit between the WIN and TIPM for a short, open condition or high resistance.
•If there is NO Battery voltagecoming out of the WIN on the F20circuit, verify all power, ground & communication circuits, & connections to the WIN prior to replacing. (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/RECEIVER, Wireless Ignition Node/Removal) .
•In the data screen, if the status of the Ignition Switch was not changing under the “Bussed Input” value, further diagnosis is needed on the communication for the WIN, Bus circuits, Connections and the TIPM.



6. PCM IGNITION, TRANS RANGE/CLUTCH SWITCH STATUS VERIFICATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Using the scan tool confirm there are no inhibits that have been triggered in the PCM (i.e. Ignition Switch, Trans Range or Clutch Switch) and any switch inputs (filtered states) relating to the starting system function and operate correctly under the data display screen.

Does the PCM show any inhibits (not DTCs) for starting (not remote starting)?

Yes

•Correct the inhibit reason listed.
•If no problem can be found then verify all power, ground and bus circuits to the PCM and replace in accordance with Service Information. (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/MODULE, Powertrain Control/Removal) .

No

•Go To 7



7. TIPM TO STARTER RELAY CHECK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. At this time if all the correct inputs for the ignition switch status are correct in the WIN, TIPM and PCM, verify both powers (pin 30 and 85) to the Starter Relay in the crank position.

Are both power supplies present at the relay when the ignition is in the crank position?

Yes

•Go To 8

No

•If, there is no power to pin 30 or 85, no DTCs, TSBs, Recalls, or Inhibits replace the TIPM in accordance with Service Information. (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/MODULE, Totally Integrated Power (TIPM)/Removal).



8. STARTER RELAY CONTROL CIRCUIT CHECK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Using a test light/DVOM determine if the Starter Control circuit at pin 86 of the relay is missing (at the relay if equipped with a removable relay or wiring to the internal relay) when cycling the ignition to the crank position.

Was the Starter Control circuit for pin 86 being grounded when the ignition was in the crank position?

Yes

•Go To 10

No

•Verify the Starter Relay Control circuit from pin 86, that there are no shorts, opens or high resistance on the wiring going from the Starter Relay in the TIPM to the PCM, Starter Solenoid and Starter.
•Verify the cables do not have excessive resistance by performing a voltage drop on the battery cables.



9. STARTER RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT CHECK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE:
Up to this point in the test, when the key is in the crank position power has been verified at Pin 30 & 85, along with the control circuit being grounded for pin 86.

1. Remove the Starter Relay Output circuit connector from the Starter solenoid.

2. Reinstall/Connect the starter relay into the TIPM.

3. Using a test light/DVOM and ignition in the crank position check for power at pin 87 (If equipped with a removable relay or wiring to the internal relay) of the relay and at the connection to the starter.


Was there power at pin 87 for the output circuit?

Yes

•Go To 10.

No

•If power is missing to pin 30 of the starter relay the TIPM is suspect. Verify all power, ground, communication circuits and connections to the TIPM before replacing in accordance with service information.
•If power is missing at pin 87 of the starter relay and the relay is replaceable, change out the relay and recheck the concern. If a known good relay causes no change, check the Starter Output circuit from pin 87 of the relay to the starter for an open, short, excessive resistance, or poor connections to the solenoid or starter.
•Verify and Inspect the Starter to ensure it is free of corrosion, oil, and there is no damage, or binding conditions.
•Verify that all wiring, cables and connections are clean and tight.



10. STARTER RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT CHECK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Load test the Starter Relay output circuit going from the TIPM to the Starter.

Does the starter relay output circuit pass the load test?

Yes

•Verify that all connections are clean, tight and there is no damage to starter when fully inspected. If no problem found then replace the Starter in accordance with Service Information.(Refer to 08 - Electrical/Starting/STARTER/Removal) .

No

•Adjust the shift cable in accordance with the Service Information. Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST.
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Previous: 2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo I6, 1979 CJ7 I6 Quadratrac
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