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post #16 of 46 Old 08-26-2004, 07:47 PM
Jeepin_Al
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I was in for 5 years, made SGT in 3 going in as an E-1, rank amongst privates is like honor amongst thieves. If college is in your plans then do it and RACK UP BIG BILLS. There is a program called teh college loan repayment plan, do it instead of the GI bill. In 99 a friend of mine enlisted and got 60K worth of student loans taken care of. 30 when he finished AIT and 15 each anniversary of his enlistement after that. As for it helping you go in as an E-4, I passed a bunch of guys who enlisted as E-3's quickly and the extra couple of bucks certainly wouldn't have been worth 4 years of college. Just a bit of advice. BTW, infantry skills don't really translate directly. I trained in Field aritllery radar repair and then medical repair, I am a biomed now, I would highly recommend enlisting in a transferable skill and then going SF if that is what you want to do. That way you get the training to convert civilian and still do what you really want to do.


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post #17 of 46 Old 08-26-2004, 09:16 PM
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Hey, it's your life, but I'm telling you that there is a reason that you will almost NEVER find enlisted service men and women with a 4 year degree.
That is total BS! I've got a bachelors degree and a 2yr degree through the CCAF. I work in a 3 man shop, 1 officer and 2 enlisted. Both myself and the other enlisted guy have degrees, he is currently working on his Masters and I am starting law school at the end of my enlistment. I can tell you that if I did not have the desire to go to law school, I would stay enlisted for the rest of my career. That is just my preference. My last Chief had 2 masters degrees, she chose to stay enlisted and I think it paid off for her, she achieved the rank that makes up 1% of the enlisted force.

jrcaz7- Don't let people scare you one way or another. Being enlisted is a great way to get your education, plus you will have work experience if you decide to get out and use your education.

BTW- I am not biased against officers, my father is a 35 year career officer. I chose my own path and, you never know, I'm not too old yet. My father had been in 12 years when he got his commission. I've only been in 4.

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post #18 of 46 Old 08-26-2004, 09:27 PM
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Well, since you asked, yes, I have known a few grunts, mostly, all the grunts in my old unit.

"Now, please explain to me what skills you learned in the infantry that carried over into the civilian world. I can't wait to hear this. Disassembling and reassembling an M2 quickly? Immediate action drills? How to set up the perfect L shaped ambush? Congradulations, Morgan Stanley & Dean Whitter is looking for those exact skills!"[/I]

If those are the only skills you learned as an infantryman, then you missed out on a lot that the services have to offer. Lets see, skills……….management, office and clerical skills, teaching and instruction, developing training plans, mentoring, interrogation techniques, search and seizure………I can go on but whats the point. There are PLENTY of companies that will hire and need people with the aforementioned skills, broaden your horizons and look at the industry and companies that are outside of your immediate point of view.

"Yes, I also went to college before enlisting, and I regret it very much. Now that I'm out and in the civilian world, I can tell you that the skills of a grunt DO NOT TRANSFER. I am glad I was a grunt and I chose that MOS even though, yes, I could've had any job I wanted. "

Its clear that you didn't think about what was best for you or skills you wanted to learn. Just because you made a choice that you don't think is ideal is no reason to down play skills and abilities learned in other jobs.

"As for NCOs making sure that the officers get their jobs done...buddy, either you've got WAY too big of an ego or some $hitbird officers."

Officers are managers, they decide what gets done and the NCO's make sure the task or mission is completed. Its not that my ego is WAY to big, it the fact that my perception of reality is WAY to clear. Take off the blinders and get over the fact that you made a less than ideal decision for yourself.

"Yes, I was a grunt and a good one at that. I am very glad that I spent the time in the Corps that I did and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But, you'd better be willing to do it on it's merits alone, cause it's not going to get you anything else."

That is your own opinion, not a fact.

"As was stated before, any MOS can go into these groups, so consider (like I said, I'm very glad I was a grunt) something like Motor T where you can put those skills to use after you get out. Or communications, or logisitics, or admin. In the infantry, your job is to fight and that is what you learn to do. But in the civilian world, there's not much use for that. If you want to make the army a career, great, but then why spend the time and money on college? If you want to go to college first, great, then do yourself a favor and become an officer. If you want college so that after your time in the military you have something to fall back on, great, but do it AFTER you get out so that the GI Bill will pay for it. "

True, there are many other jobs which will give you a defined specific skill that you can use on the flip side. My question is how does the skill set of an infantryman not include " communications, or logisitics, or admin"?


Hey, it's your life, but I'm telling you that there is a reason that you will almost NEVER find enlisted service men and women with a 4 year degree.

You have never been more WRONG! I know of a few people with 4 year degrees…………but did I mention that I also know numerous people with Master's and doctorates? oh yeah, all enlisted....most have more education than the commanders.

Money is not everything, some people value life experience and if being an enlisted man with a college degree is the way………let the man walk his own path. Don't give path advice if you obviously aren't happy with yours.

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post #19 of 46 Old 08-26-2004, 09:35 PM
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And both you guys are still crunchies!! hehehe, just tryin to lighten the mood.
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post #20 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 04:16 AM
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Thumbs up

its all good, just a difference of opinion, which we are all entitled to. Hanzo has some good points, but i just don't agree with ALL of them. this is exactly what someone who is considering joining the military needs, opinions based off of experience, not some recruiter needing to make his monthly quota.

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post #21 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by johnniebravo
its all good, just a difference of opinion, which we are all entitled to. Hanzo has some good points, but i just don't agree with ALL of them. this is exactly what someone who is considering joining the military needs, opinions based off of experience, not some recruiter needing to make his monthly quota.
You know how to tell if a recruiter is lying??

























His lips are moving..
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post #22 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 11:54 AM
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Johnnie,

The skills you mentioned, management, office and clerical skills, teaching and instruction, developing training plans, mentoring, interrogation techniques, search and seizure...

OK, lets take these one at a time.

Management, please explain to me what job in the military would NOT give you managment skills.

Office and clerical skills, besides being able to sign your name, what are you referring to? I don't know what kind of stuff you army boys do, and maybe you do spend a lot of your day in an office, if so, I guess I'm wrong. But my experience in the Corps is waking up, PTing, then going out for training for my job, and my job does not involve ANYTHING clerical. One day, you're on the range, next day, 10 mile hump, next day, hand to hand combat, etc.

Teaching and instruction, once again, this is present in all military jobs, as is developing training plans.

Interrogation techniques and search and seizure...how are these going to help you in the civilian world unless you're LE?

As for the comment about not making the decision that was best for me or the skills I wanted or that I made a bad decision for myself and not being happy with the decisions I made...where in the world did you get that from?

I repeatedly said I was VERY happy with my choices. I'm glad I went infantry and wouldn't trade it for anything. However, I knew going in and I know now that I am out in the real world that had I gone with a different MOS, I'd have MANY more options open to me now. I still wouldn't change anything, I didn't make any mistakes and I don't regret anything. I did it for it's own merits and I'm very happy about that.

You asked me how a skills of an infantry man don't include communications, logistics or admin. Communications is not the ability to use a radio. Communications is setting up a communications network and maintaining it. And no, grunts don't do that. Logistics, I'm talking about a lot more than just handing out MREs. Grunts don't handle the mass movement and coordination of supplies. Same thing with admin. Sure, a grunt can write, type and some other basic things but they are not familiar with the things that admin are. That is the reason they have those MOS's.

OK, scenario...you go into a job interview, guy asks you what you did in the army. "I was in the infantry" Then he asks you what skill you have that would pertain to this job. "I can type, I'm familiar with x, y and z software programs, I'm familiar with management, laying out plans for operations and training others". Now he asks you how that is different that any other service man or woman. Cricket, cricket. The problem is, he's interviewing 5 other service men and women today, one is admin, one is logistics and one is communications. They all have the same skills that you do, except that when it comes to the USEFUL skills, they've got TONS more. They will get the job over you.

I work for a major government contractor with international offices. Yes, many of the CEOs and executive folks are former military (it's San Diego, everyone is former military) but ALL of them were officers. Of all the military men and women I have met here, I am the only one that was enlisted. And believe me, I am at the bottom of the totem pole.

I'm not saying don't go infantry, I'm not saying don't go to college, all I'm saying is, go into the army as young as you can because believe me, you WILL slow down over those 4 years. I went in when I was 21 and I wasn't in NEARLY as good of shape as those around me. AND, I didn't have much in common with the guys I was in with. All the guys my age were much higher rank so I obviously couldn't talk to them. Once again, I don't regret my decisions with the exception that if I had it to do over again, I think I would've gone in right after high school and gone to college afterwards.
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post #23 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 11:55 AM
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Oh, and WTF is a crunchie??? Must be some army term.
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post #24 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hanzo
Oh, and WTF is a crunchie??? Must be some army term.
I'm a tanker, when we run over infantry guys... they go crunch! so we call you guys crunchies.
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post #25 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 12:09 PM
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Yeah, definately an army thing. In the Marine Corps, we just out run them.
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post #26 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 12:12 PM
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Yeah, definately an army thing. In the Marine Corps, we just out run them.
Try me!! My coax says you can't!!
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post #27 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 12:21 PM
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Haha, well, honestly...it all depends on terrain. We infantry for a reason, tanks can't go everywhere.

Seriously though, I tried to do a lat move to tanks after I got injured, it was definately my second choice after the infantry. I really wish I would've been able to do it.
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post #28 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hanzo
Haha, well, honestly...it all depends on terrain. We infantry for a reason, tanks can't go everywhere.

Seriously though, I tried to do a lat move to tanks after I got injured, it was definately my second choice after the infantry. I really wish I would've been able to do it.
I let the infantry to become a tanker. I wouldn't trade it for anything. the only thing that sucks is the maint., days and days of it. Belive it or not, tanking was a lot more physical work (aint nothing light on a tank!!) and at 24, I've got class 3 hearing loss (what did you say?) blown out knees and a bone chip floating around in my calf. Your not lying about slowing down. Your body just starts wearing out. It's like they say " it's not the years, it's the mileage."
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post #29 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 12:41 PM
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Very true. My ankle kinda...exploded, and while in rehab was trying to go to tanks (there was no way I could go back to infantry with my injuries) but that was declined also. So, here I am, just a nasty civilian.

Ooh Rah 1st CivDiv!
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post #30 of 46 Old 08-27-2004, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hanzo
Very true. My ankle kinda...exploded, and while in rehab was trying to go to tanks (there was no way I could go back to infantry with my injuries) but that was declined also. So, here I am, just a nasty civilian.

Ooh Rah 1st CivDiv!
Yep, that's me too. I'm a pfc, private freaking civilian!!!
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