What is best WINCH for the money???? - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
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post #46 of 64 Old 12-16-2013, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by dayriesw View Post
I bet those option work good at the mall speed bumps, but I wheel different places than you I guess.

Personally, I think they are pretty or you can strip them down and mount the control box somewhere else and they look good either way.

First picture is how I bought my 1982 year 8274. Second picture is just after the rebuild and third is when I relocated the control box under the hood.

No other winch offers the options this one does or is gear driven. My has these mods: oil fill and drain plugs, superwinch control switch to replace the solenoids, powdercoated case, painted fins (not my best idea), syn line, neg ground.... All I need now is a double motor to make it even faster....
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Originally Posted by GrantYJ View Post
The Jeep itself is about function over form. Also, remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When you're stuck in the woods (or an icy ditch), an 8274 is a beautiful thing (one that I'd trust any day over an M8000 or an Engo).

Personally, I think that they can be very nice looking...

This shot was taken from the comfort of my office (hence the rain on the window) a few minutes ago. We've been having a lot of snow which was starting to melt off when the freezing rain started coming down...
Winches are one of those topics that everyone has a strong opinion on, and that's not a bad thing at all! My personal opinion is that there are winches on the market that work as well as the 8274 and look better. You guys love your 8274's and that's great!

I'd hope that we can agree there is no one end all be all when it comes to any part for our Jeeps, winches included. It's a matter of opinion, taste, budget, and a lot of other factors.

Everyone builds their Jeeps how they want them built. That's the beauty of having one. You can make it yours and it doesn't much matter what anyone else thinks. I'll always be the first to point that my opinion is just that, another opinion, and it is in no way law. I'll also be the first to tell someone to build their rig how they want it and not worry about what is "cool" according to everyone else.

-Ryan


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post #47 of 64 Old 12-16-2013, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post
Winches are one of those topics that everyone has a strong opinion on, and that's not a bad thing at all! My personal opinion is that there are winches on the market that work as well as the 8274 and look better.
I don't know about looking better, but the more I study the 8274, the more I realize that a winch that large blocking the small Jeep radiator in hot states like where I live, or like out in Arizona, is probably not the best idea for daily drivers.
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post #48 of 64 Old 12-16-2013, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mambo_Dave View Post
I don't know about looking better, but the more I study the 8274, the more I realize that a winch that large blocking the small Jeep radiator in hot states like where I live, or like out in Arizona, is probably not the best idea for daily drivers.
Cooling has never been an issue for me with an 8274. In my youth, I daily drove a CJ7 with one without issue. I regularly wheel and street drive my YJ (year round) and have never had any problems. Summers where I live will get over 100 degrees for a few days/weeks at a time.

...a fan pulling air through the radiator is a fan pulling air through the radiator. It's not like the winch is up hard against it and covering a huge portion.

The other portion of my daily driving is in a Charger R/T. It has the 5.7 liter Hemi. The open grill area on the Charger is far less than what my YJ has (even if you actually blocked off the area where winch is in front of it) and there is a lot more engine to cool on that car. I'm aware that it's an apples to oranges comparison; however, the argument has as much validity as an 8274 "causing" overheating issues.

If your Jeep is overheating with an 8274 in front of the grill, it won't magically get better if you were to remove the winch. It means that you have a problem with your cooling system.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
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post #49 of 64 Old 12-16-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mambo_Dave View Post
I don't know about looking better, but the more I study the 8274, the more I realize that a winch that large blocking the small Jeep radiator in hot states like where I live, or like out in Arizona, is probably not the best idea for daily drivers.
This is generally a non-issue that gets used by people looking for excuses for what is a problem somewhere else in their cooling system.
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post #50 of 64 Old 12-16-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by biffgnar View Post
This is generally a non-issue that gets used by people looking for excuses for what is a problem somewhere else in their cooling system.
I don't have a Warn that big but when I live in SoCAL I would crawl around the desert and even at 120 plus I would run my AC with my bikini top and my TJ never overheated.

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post #51 of 64 Old 12-16-2013, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post
Winches are one of those topics that everyone has a strong opinion on, and that's not a bad thing at all! My personal opinion is that there are winches on the market that work as well as the 8274 and look better. You guys love your 8274's and that's great!

I'd hope that we can agree there is no one end all be all when it comes to any part for our Jeeps, winches included. It's a matter of opinion, taste, budget, and a lot of other factors.

Everyone builds their Jeeps how they want them built. That's the beauty of having one. You can make it yours and it doesn't much matter what anyone else thinks. I'll always be the first to point that my opinion is just that, another opinion, and it is in no way law. I'll also be the first to tell someone to build their rig how they want it and not worry about what is "cool" according to everyone else.

-Ryan
Ryan,
What kind of winch do you use? What have you used in the past?

It's obvious that you put a lot of effort into your posts to try not to offend. It's also obvious that you try to steer readers to products that you offer. I have absolutely no problem with this. You're a vendor, you'd be crazy not to use the forum in this manner.

Where I have an issue is when you steer people away from a viable option. When I post on this forum, I do so with the sole purpose of trying to help other people with a shared interest. That's my only motivation. I'm not trying to add to my bottom line.

I recommend what I do based on personal experience. I've owned winches from most of the "name brand" companies (I haven't laid hands on a Superwinch or an Engo, but I've seen both in use) as well as a lot of the off brand winches. That is where my comments are coming from.

I'm just trying to find out where yours are coming from. Is it personal experience (hence the questions at the beginning of the post), product data from brochures, or a memo stating what units you're trying to move?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be combative. I'm actually very impressed when vendors come on the forum and speak to their customers. I'm just wondering what you're basing your opinion on. The comment that in your opinion there are winches on the market that "work as well" is what led to this post. To "work as well", I would think that it would need to be as reliable and have similar performance (by definition)...

I don't see how anyone with any real understanding of winches could ever compare the reliability of a Planetary winch to a Spur Gear (or Worm Drive for that matter). I'm not saying that a Planetary is bad, or that it's going to explode and kill a bus load of nuns... I'm just saying that they're not as robust. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Further, the 8274 has the fastest line speed of any winch on the market ...for the last 40 years. If you want to throw budget back into the mix, the 8274 (with synthetic line) in my post above was built for less cash than your website's cost for a new Engo with synthetic.

I'm not saying that I would sell it for that amount of cash, I'm just saying that if you're willing to get your hands dirty and spend a weekend or two working on it, you can have it for that cost out of pocket.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
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post #52 of 64 Old 12-16-2013, 11:40 PM
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I see lots of the 8274 in the 800-1800 price range and always hope to find a deal on an old one but never do so until I do I just keep using my inferior unit
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post #53 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 12:42 AM
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http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/wi...ub-408610.html


The best winch regardless of the money is one that will work every time. Threads like what i linked above show up far too often and ALWAYS with a chinease made winch. Sure you can save a few hundred now, but is that worth losing a lot more later. That guy was lucky no-one was hurt but it could of been much worse. A winch is one of the MOST dangerous things you can add to a vehicle why buy something that everyone knows is low quality when you can buy something like a warn??
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post #54 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by GrantYJ View Post
Ryan,
What kind of winch do you use? What have you used in the past?

It's obvious that you put a lot of effort into your posts to try not to offend. It's also obvious that you try to steer readers to products that you offer. I have absolutely no problem with this. You're a vendor, you'd be crazy not to use the forum in this manner.

Where I have an issue is when you steer people away from a viable option. When I post on this forum, I do so with the sole purpose of trying to help other people with a shared interest. That's my only motivation. I'm not trying to add to my bottom line.

I recommend what I do based on personal experience. I've owned winches from most of the "name brand" companies (I haven't laid hands on a Superwinch or an Engo, but I've seen both in use) as well as a lot of the off brand winches. That is where my comments are coming from.

I'm just trying to find out where yours are coming from. Is it personal experience (hence the questions at the beginning of the post), product data from brochures, or a memo stating what units you're trying to move?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be combative. I'm actually very impressed when vendors come on the forum and speak to their customers. I'm just wondering what you're basing your opinion on. The comment that in your opinion there are winches on the market that "work as well" is what led to this post. To "work as well", I would think that it would need to be as reliable and have similar performance (by definition)...

I don't see how anyone with any real understanding of winches could ever compare the reliability of a Planetary winch to a Spur Gear (or Worm Drive for that matter). I'm not saying that a Planetary is bad, or that it's going to explode and kill a bus load of nuns... I'm just saying that they're not as robust. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Further, the 8274 has the fastest line speed of any winch on the market ...for the last 40 years. If you want to throw budget back into the mix, the 8274 (with synthetic line) in my post above was built for less cash than your website's cost for a new Engo with synthetic.

I'm not saying that I would sell it for that amount of cash, I'm just saying that if you're willing to get your hands dirty and spend a weekend or two working on it, you can have it for that cost out of pocket.
Thank you for taking the time to post a well thought out comment and for not being combative. These opinion threads can get heated. You're right that we are a vendor and ultimately we want to get people to purchase their Jeep accessories from us. But I don't want to do that at the cost of giving bad advice.

I certainly didn't mean to steer anyone away from the viable option of the 8274. You are correct that we don't sell that winch, and recommending it wouldn't add to our bottom line. But that hasn't stopped me from recommending products that we don't sell in the past, and it won't in the future.

I haven't personally used an 8274. I also won't pretend that I have complete knowledge of or experience with every winch on the market. I don't have a winch on my personal rig at the moment. But I have wheeled with people that have all different brands on their rigs and used them. We also have Jeeps here have a few different brands mounted on them.

That being said, my recommendation for the Engo does not come from a product data brochure or a memo telling me what product to push. My recommendation comes from the guys on this forum and many others, as well as a lot of other reading I've done on winch tests.

That is also where my "work as well" comment comes from. Engo has tested well and been beaten up and not failed. I haven't read any threads complaining about an Engo Winch failing. There are other styles of winch out there, but the bottom line is if the winch works it works. If two winches work every time, what makes one better than the other?

I agree that to "work as well" two winches would need to be as reliable and have similar performance to each other. From what I have read the Engo hasn't failed on the trail so it is "as reliable". I concede that the line speed is slower than some other models, so if that is the measure of performance that we're using, it doesn't "work as well" as the 8274.

I have said in the past and will continue to say that the 8274 is a good option and that you can have one for cheap, even if it means getting your hands dirty and fixing one up that needs some love. I will also continue to recommend other options that work as well as the 8274 out of the box for someone who wants a winch and doesn't want to build one or spend a lot of money.

-Ryan

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post #55 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 10:04 AM
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however the one thing Engo has never been tested for is time, as the company has not been around long enough to stand the test of time.
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post #56 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 10:25 AM
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however the one thing Engo has never been tested for is time, as the company has not been around long enough to stand the test of time.
You are correct on that. Warn has been around for a long time and has proven itself as a brand that makes a quality product over and over again. Hopefully Engo will be able to do that as well (I think competition in the market is good for both prices and ingenuity/new products). But only time will tell.

-Ryan

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post #57 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post
You are correct on that. Warn has been around for a long time and has proven itself as a brand that makes a quality product over and over again. Hopefully Engo will be able to do that as well (I think competition in the market is good for both prices and ingenuity/new products). But only time will tell.

-Ryan
the thing is there is no company that can compete with the high end warn winches. The only compition is for the "budget" class winches. None of the chinease winches i think will ever equal the quality of anything warn puts out outside of the VR serise.
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post #58 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post

Thank you for taking the time to post a well thought out comment and for not being combative. These opinion threads can get heated. You're right that we are a vendor and ultimately we want to get people to purchase their Jeep accessories from us. But I don't want to do that at the cost of giving bad advice.

I certainly didn't mean to steer anyone away from the viable option of the 8274. You are correct that we don't sell that winch, and recommending it wouldn't add to our bottom line. But that hasn't stopped me from recommending products that we don't sell in the past, and it won't in the future.

I haven't personally used an 8274. I also won't pretend that I have complete knowledge of or experience with every winch on the market. I don't have a winch on my personal rig at the moment. But I have wheeled with people that have all different brands on their rigs and used them. We also have Jeeps here have a few different brands mounted on them.

That being said, my recommendation for the Engo does not come from a product data brochure or a memo telling me what product to push. My recommendation comes from the guys on this forum and many others, as well as a lot of other reading I've done on winch tests.

That is also where my "work as well" comment comes from. Engo has tested well and been beaten up and not failed. I haven't read any threads complaining about an Engo Winch failing. There are other styles of winch out there, but the bottom line is if the winch works it works. If two winches work every time, what makes one better than the other?

I agree that to "work as well" two winches would need to be as reliable and have similar performance to each other. From what I have read the Engo hasn't failed on the trail so it is "as reliable". I concede that the line speed is slower than some other models, so if that is the measure of performance that we're using, it doesn't "work as well" as the 8274.

I have said in the past and will continue to say that the 8274 is a good option and that you can have one for cheap, even if it means getting your hands dirty and fixing one up that needs some love. I will also continue to recommend other options that work as well as the 8274 out of the box for someone who wants a winch and doesn't want to build one or spend a lot of money.

-Ryan
Thank you sir. I appreciate you not taking my post personally. When I reread it, it sounded much more harsh than I intended.

I've seen a lot of broken winches (all brands). In the past, when someone broke one, there was typically an accompanying story of misuse/abuse (for the purpose of my point here, I'm not referring to any solenoid related failures. Solenoids have been and still are the number one winch failure culprit).

Basically, you knew that if they fried the motor, they ran it too hard for too long (probably with inadequate current getting to the motor). If they broke gears or a casing, they did something very, very bad. A true failure without cause was very rare. This typically still holds true with the name brand winches. Unfortunately, you see failures much more often now, but they're typically relegated to the lower quality winches.

I've heard a mix of opinions on the Engo; however, I've heard much more positive than negative. I'd like to put one through it's paces to see how it does. The only thing that concerned me about the one I've seen operate was that there was a lot of gear noise (more than normal for a planetary). If it were mine, I'd have pulled it apart to see if it was a lack of lubrication, or look for clues in how the gears were meshing up. It seemed to pull the way it should, but it was a new winch (less than a year old, maybe three or four good pulls under it's belt). I'm very curious to see how they hold up. If I was looking for a budget winch and I couldn't find an old Warn, Ramsey, or etc., the Engo would be on my short list.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
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post #59 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by XTRyan View Post
Winches are one of those topics that everyone has a strong opinion on, and that's not a bad thing at all! My personal opinion is that there are winches on the market that work as well as the 8274 and look better. You guys love your 8274's and that's great!

I'd hope that we can agree there is no one end all be all when it comes to any part for our Jeeps, winches included. It's a matter of opinion, taste, budget, and a lot of other factors.
It is my personal opinion that the 8274 is the best winch period. Doesnt matter if you are building a crawler, farm hand truck, or world expedition vehicle. It is also my opinion that looks shouldnt matter if you are trying to build the most effective wheeler out there... hence my mall crawler comment before. I do take into account the looks but after the function. I honestly believe there are 2 types of winch owners: the ones who dont know how great a 8274 is, which is why they dont have one and the one who do and run 8274s. I know that is a bold statement, but I also believe that it is true. Go to a large expedition gathering, go to a rock crawling park, go to anywhere that is not a soccer mom show and shine.... I garantee that if there are serious wheelers (people who use their winch more than 5 times a year and have their life depend on said winch), there will be more 8274s than any other type of winch. Then ask yourself why that is.

Maybe some people just dont know why they are so awesome. Maybe the 35 years+ of them being on the market and still supported by warn's parts dept? Maybe the reliability of the gear driven platform with a gear driven brake? Maybe the fact that the drum is designed to have 125' of rope on it.... rope that is 5/16" thick? Maybe because it is still the fastest line speed? Just to list a few....


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post #60 of 64 Old 12-17-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dayriesw View Post

It is my personal opinion that the 8274 is the best winch period. Doesnt matter if you are building a crawler, farm hand truck, or world expedition vehicle. It is also my opinion that looks shouldnt matter if you are trying to build the most effective wheeler out there... hence my mall crawler comment before. I do take into account the looks but after the function. I honestly believe there are 2 types of winch owners: the ones who dont know how great a 8274 is, which is why they dont have one and the one who do and run 8274s. I know that is a bold statement, but I also believe that it is true. Go to a large expedition gathering, go to a rock crawling park, go to anywhere that is not a soccer mom show and shine.... I garantee that if there are serious wheelers (people who use their winch more than 5 times a year and have their life depend on said winch), there will be more 8274s than any other type of winch. Then ask yourself why that is.

Maybe some people just dont know why they are so awesome. Maybe the 35 years+ of them being on the market and still supported by warn's parts dept? Maybe the reliability of the gear driven platform with a gear driven brake? Maybe the fact that the drum is designed to have 125' of rope on it.... rope that is 5/16" thick? Maybe because it is still the fastest line speed? Just to list a few....

I always love the reaction the first time somebody sees one in action. It always seems to start with an expletive....

The last time I used mine offroad was at an event held at a park near my home that I attended a couple of months ago. I decided to go last minute and ended up wheeling with some folks I didn't know. It was a great group and we had lots of fun.

The guy leading was a little crazy. He would try any obstacle (regardless of how hopeless). He was trying to go up a very steep hill with a substantial ledge rock drop just after going between a couple of large trees. He was locked in front with LS in the rear. It was very damp and he could get the front wheels up the ledge, but the rear just wouldn't climb it. He ended up sideways against a tree with a tree in front of him and another behind.

From the relative comfort of the wash that we'd been running down, I used a snatch block on a tree to get the line pulling him up the rock ledge ...sideways. Everyone there was saying the whole time we were getting the rigging done that there was no way an 8k winch would pull him sideways up a ledge. I had to tie off to another vehicle, but the winch had no problem at all. There aren't many winches out there that can do something like that on a single line pull. Definitely not many that can do it after 30 years of use.

I rarely go to an event weekend where somebody doesn't try to buy it from me.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
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