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post #1 of 23 Old 10-28-2018, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
WJ04JGC
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Paint issues

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1 day ago #1
New Paint Issues
Hi all,
I recently repaired some body damage and repainted several panels on my 04 WJ. I did these repairs over the course of 4 months as my original intention was to repair only one section.
I used Automotive Paint Touch Up's 12 oz cans of prime,base and clear following all directions. I also used their prep solvent. I'm not a professional body man but, I think the end results were excellent after wet sanding and DA polishing.

After week/months of painting and all of a sudden, I now have what looks like scratches under the clear coat. The surface is smooth and you can't see it in certain angles. The "scratches" seemed to appear after the first cold snap and more seem to be appearing. I tried wet sanding and compounding to no avail.

Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this?
If I repaint will they just re appear?

Thanks for the help
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post #2 of 23 Old 10-28-2018, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Here are pics
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IMG_20181023_150654618_HDR_1540752314657.jpg   IMG_20181023_150703055_1540752340068.jpg   IMG_20181020_111558852_1540752394599.jpg   IMG_20181020_111614992_HDR_1540752418764.jpg  
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post #3 of 23 Old 10-28-2018, 03:33 PM
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must have left some deep scratches doing the repair. The paint when it drys and shrinks a bit tend to amplify any thing under it.

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post #4 of 23 Old 10-28-2018, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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I wish that was it. I sanded with 400 before base and used a light to ensure there were no scratches. The finish stayed perfect for several weeks. Just appeared literally overnight.
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post #5 of 23 Old 10-29-2018, 07:21 PM
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Did you wet sand the primer?
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post #6 of 23 Old 10-30-2018, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Did you wet sand the primer?
In some areas yes. In some sections I just scuffed and painted on top of the existing paint. I have these "scratches" all over whether primed or not.
After more searching, I'm starting to think it's crows feet/laquer cracking that suddenly appeared after the first cold night. Pretty sure the paint and clear I got from Automotive Paint Touch in 12oz cans is laquer. I emailed the manufacturer with pics but did not get an answer yet.
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-30-2018, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Manufacturer(Automotive Touch Up Paint) got back to me with a list of possible causes ranging from improper paint thickness to insufficient flash times. I have followed their directions and have applied their product several different times under slightly different conditions, over the period of a few months. Some areas had been prined and some were not. In either case, the laquer cracking exists in every area.
The results were great until the cold weather hit. Now I'm stuck with laquer cracks all over. My only recourse is now to strip their product and re do everything all over again.
Please reconsider if thinking of painting with this brand or suffer the same fate.
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post #8 of 23 Old 10-30-2018, 04:28 PM
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I thought they quit using laquer years ago.

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post #9 of 23 Old 10-30-2018, 05:13 PM
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yes laquer and even other types can "craze" if the temps are to low. they can appear during the drying time and after.

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post #10 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ04JGC View Post
Please reconsider if thinking of painting with this brand or suffer the same fate.
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Originally Posted by ravenworks View Post
I thought they quit using laquer years ago.
It’s not probably the paint manufacturer putting out poor product.

The fact is, modern paint is not compatible with lacquer. Due to shelflife and other factors touch up paint are almost always acrylic lacquer because they dry quickly and usually can be applied by someone without a lot of painting experience was successful results.

Acrylic lacquer is almost never applied by a body shop anymore, because it is not as durable as a urethane 2K finish. Paint is more than color it’s a system; a coating system. Acrylic lacquer is essentially not flexible, and almost every other kind of paint use these days is flexible. So shrinkage, or temperature changes, when lacquer has been applied over preceding finish often results in what you’ve experienced. That’s the sad truth.

[size=3]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #11 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ04JGC View Post
Please reconsider if thinking of painting with this brand or suffer the same fate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenworks View Post
I thought they quit using laquer years ago.
It’s not probably the paint manufacturer putting out poor product.

The fact is, modern paint is not compatible with lacquer. Due to shelflife and other factors touch up paint are almost always acrylic lacquer because they dry quickly and usually can be applied by someone without a lot of painting experience was successful results.

Acrylic lacquer is almost never applied by a body shop anymore, because it is not as durable as a urethane 2K finish. Paint is more than color it’s a system; a coating system. Acrylic lacquer is essentially not flexible, and almost every other kind of paint use these days is flexible. So shrinkage, or temperature changes, when lacquer has been applied over preceding finish often results in what you’ve experienced. That’s the sad truth.
Thanks for the info. I think I'm stuck with what I've got or re paint in the spring. Do you have a suggestion as to what brand to buy? The Jeep has 208,000 miles on it so I'm not looking for perfection, just want it to look decent.
At this point I would need to re do the hood, both rear quarters and the lift gate. I will probably get a spray gun from HF this time.
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post #12 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 07:39 PM
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Don’t buy the $10-$12 one. Buy the ~$28 one if you’re going cheap. I’ve got a couple dozen jobs on the $28 gun but the cheaper one wouldn’t cut it for me.
Paint: the cheap stuff isn’t worth it. Too much reducing in the can. I don’t have a brand to recommend though. NAPA sells Martin Senor that isn’t too bad if you don’t have an auto paint store nearby.

[size=3]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-02-2018, 03:32 AM Thread Starter
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Don’t buy the $10-$12 one. Buy the ~$28 one if you’re going cheap. I’ve got a couple dozen jobs on the $28 gun but the cheaper one wouldn’t cut it for me.
Paint: the cheap stuff isn’t worth it. Too much reducing in the can. I don’t have a brand to recommend though. NAPA sells Martin Senor that isn’t too bad if you don’t have an auto paint store nearby.
Thanks again. I will report back, hopefully with better results. I probably won't do it until the spring since I'm painting in the driveway and want to see if the cracking gets worse.
Do you think I need to remove 100% of the laquer or just sand past the cracks?
I guess I should prime the entire panels this time? Last time I only primed the repaired areas and just scuffed the original paint on the rest of the panels(the cracks appeared whether primed or not)
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-02-2018, 05:42 AM
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The lacquer will get 90% easily removed with acetone, then you can sand. Get your paint store’s aerosol primer/sealer to seal newly painted areas; fine scuff pad on original paint. Blend into the original paint, then you can tape off and scuff to a body line or seam for the clear. Pull the tape before clear is full hard/cured. Carefully wet sand onto the tape line by hand to blend out the ridge, buff.

I’m no expert painter by any stretch but the above should be acceptable imho. A ‘real’ body man will probably be able to see the method, but 99% of people won’t.

[size=3]Shackles & D-rings are different things.
Cranking IS turning over
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-02-2018, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like good advise to me. Sucks having to re do it but, what can you do.
I'll have to post pics when it's all done. Thanks for the help
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