The importance of metal prep - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 16 Old 01-09-2021, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
pat master
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The importance of metal prep

Metal prep is your first line of defense to prevent further rust and corrosion. This basic technology is been around for at least five decades. Modern rust removers / metal Preps contain detergents to clean residual oil from the surface. Phosphoric metal prep which are the most aggressive for dissolving rust and leaves a zinc phosphate coating to prevent further rusting. Bare metal parts wiped down with this solution can be stored for months indoors without rusting. This is easier than applying spray can primer you have to remove later to paint it correctly. When you grind off rust and paint it And it rusts again in no time it's because you didn't use the metal prep to kill the rust that was still in the pores of the steel. So if you going to paint something and you want it to last, prep it properly . I hope this helps

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post #2 of 16 Old 04-11-2021, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pat master View Post
Metal prep is your first line of defense to prevent further rust and corrosion. This basic technology is been around for at least five decades. Modern rust removers / metal Preps contain detergents to clean residual oil from the surface. Phosphoric metal prep which are the most aggressive for dissolving rust and leaves a zinc phosphate coating to prevent further rusting. Bare metal parts wiped down with this solution can be stored for months indoors without rusting. This is easier than applying spray can primer you have to remove later to paint it correctly. When you grind off rust and paint it And it rusts again in no time it's because you didn't use the metal prep to kill the rust that was still in the pores of the steel. So if you going to paint something and you want it to last, prep it properly . I hope this helps

Yes, good general info. How about some links to good rust preventatives that you have used and found that work well.


Thanks!
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post #3 of 16 Old 04-11-2021, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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post #4 of 16 Old 04-25-2021, 12:15 PM
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The Mastercoat one leaves a white substance when it dries.


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post #5 of 16 Old 04-26-2021, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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The white film left behind is the zinc phosphate. This is the older version of corrosion protection used with ordinary paints. It also has a cleaning and degreasing agent, does not require a water rinse, which can be problematic in a high humidity climate for flash rusting, A converter leaves a iron oxide primer , some work well and there are paint companies that discourage the use of converters with epoxy. All Automotive manufacturers dip the bodies of the cars in a phosphate solution before priming and painting. The reason for this if there's any kind of rust in the steel and you Prime and paint over it that will be the first place you will have a paint failure which is not good for their warranty.
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post #6 of 16 Old 09-07-2021, 04:09 PM
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I use a Product formaly made by Dupont Now made by Cromax / Axalta trade name 5717S and 5718s both must be used together as a system and are only products approved to be used under their Paint system.



PPG also has their own line also to be used under their paint system SX579 metal cleaner and SX520 Metal conditioner again both must be used together as a system.


I highly recommend doing your own research and checking out the other products mentioned! I think you will find they claim to be able to be used under any Paint system BUT in reality their are No paint company will say ya its ok to use those name brands under their paint system!!!!! You can do what you like but for me I pick a Paint system and stick with it through a whole project! I have had entire Paint jobs refunded and replaced all products used because I stuck to a system and had a failure and the mfg refunded and replaced all the products used!!! You cant beat that! You get what you pay for! Pick a Paint system use it follow through with the whole system don't cheap out using substandard products.


All Paint MFGs offer a complete system or line when you go mixing brands you better make sure what works with what or you'll have a real expensive mess on your hands!




Note the 5717s cleans and pre etches metal and as it dries it gives the metal a gold looking color tint (flash rust), the 5718s cleans that gold color off etching and leaving a film of phosphate and nickle the surface is clean etched and a coating of nickle and phosphate. Both systems are a Cold galvanizing systems leaving metal clean and ready for Epoxy or Etching primer.



These are no joke products they work when instructions are followed to the letter!!!!! I cant stress that enough follow the instructions! and were gloves these products contain acid and heavy metals don't mess with your health!


These pics are in reverse order that they should appear in fist is finished product out side.








I have been using these products on all of my complete bare metal paint jobs for the last two decades they work!
I only do complete paint jobs and specialize in rust repair.

I put the cars out side after treatment to let them dry in the sun, They always stay rust free until I am ready too paint.sometimes months later. And if it rains on them I have no worries other than a quick wash. Nice to deal with metal that doesn't rust!

Last edited by Doright; 09-07-2021 at 05:09 PM.
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post #7 of 16 Old 09-07-2021, 05:17 PM
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Check it out notice wet metal no flash rust




























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post #8 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
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If you're going to use the Chromax system use what they recommend because is a warranty issue. Just about all your quality Metal Products contain phosphoric acid , alcohol or ethanol and a solvent called EB for degreasing and cleaning purposes . I prefer metal preps that do not require a water rinse. In a climate like Florida if you rinse water on a panel it will rust right before your eyes. Use denatured alcohol instead. Gem , Captain Lee's ,and Mastercoat metal prep do not require a water rinse. I watched captain Lee sell his metal prep at shows for 18 years with no problems if you're going to paint the outside body and do a production paint job use their prep. If you use Industrial coatings like Mastercoat you can use metal preps that do not require a water rince.
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post #9 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 06:59 AM
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I would not use ANY products THAT are NOT endorsed by a Paint mfg! Name one Paint system that endorses the use of your Master coat system in writing please?

I also would NEVER use your Mastercoat system ever! It is another Rust encapsulation type material comparable to POR15 that has been proven to be just another Mirical cure that doesn't meet expectations promised, The real `cure for Rust is to remove it put in new metal and prevention with Epoxy.



Be honest I bet you have never used the products I am talking about? If you have and the metal flash rusted You used it improperly by not following the instructions correctly! Hi Humidity has nothing to do with the science behind the product, it is a Cold Galvanizing system.



Again Best advise is stay away from any products that are not endorsed by a Paint mfg you intend to use, and Stay away from The Snake oil dealers!
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post #10 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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The painting that you do is Automotive production work. Mastercoat Permanent Rust sealer is the original Mobay Bridge primer which is an industrial primer. It is the Industrial Coatings industry standard to combat rust and corrosion. It is the only type of primer that's airtight The Three coat polyurethane system will withstand a 15,000 hours of salt spray, If scratched the rust WILL NOT go beyond the scratch . Automotive production paints will do less than a 1000 . If I poured lacquer thinner on your car everything would dissolve. Mastercoat silver will withstand 10 days immersion in acetone. Vintage cars Inc in Fort Mill South Carolina prime's the entire car inside and out with the Mastercoat silver then comes the epoxy primer ,they've been doing it like this for the last 20 years. Thier cars are shown at Hersery every year If you go to the Mastercoat site and look at the gallery you'll see a number of these cars. I've been painting cars for 40 years and have been involved in Industrial Coatings for 33 years. if you'd like send me a panel I have access to paint test equipment like a salt fog chamber I would be happy to compare the two for you
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post #11 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pat master View Post
The painting that you do is Automotive production work. Mastercoat Permanent Rust sealer is the original Mobay Bridge primer which is an industrial primer. It is the Industrial Coatings industry standard to combat rust and corrosion. It is the only type of primer that's airtight The Three coat polyurethane system will withstand a 15,000 hours of salt spray, If scratched the rust WILL NOT go beyond the scratch . Automotive production paints will do less than a 1000 . If I poured lacquer thinner on your car everything would dissolve. Mastercoat silver will withstand 10 days immersion in acetone. Vintage cars Inc in Fort Mill South Carolina prime's the entire car inside and out with the Mastercoat silver then comes the epoxy primer ,they've been doing it like this for the last 20 years. Thier cars are shown at Hersery every year If you go to the Mastercoat site and look at the gallery you'll see a number of these cars. I've been painting cars for 40 years and have been involved in Industrial Coatings for 33 years. if you'd like send me a panel I have access to paint test equipment like a salt fog chamber I would be happy to compare the two for you

The products I promote I get no return for I represent no companey I tell others about them because they work!

Your a PAID spammer! ripping people off!




You have a Salt spray Chamber ? as I expected Your a Snake oil salesman!

Pedal your trash to those that don't know better Your **** is Junk! If it was so great why doesn't the US Navy use it?

They don't because Epoxy is far superior!



Lacquer thinner aint gonna touch Urethane clears Primers or Epoxys sorry peddle your BS to some one else!

Your peddelin Snake oil dude! and I am calling BS on you! AND YOUR BS PRODUCT!
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post #12 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Okay dude you can make all the accusations you like. I did car shows for 18 years every two weeks at Carlisle, Hershey, Daytona Dunkirk , Charlotte MotorSpeedway. same Faces for years every other year every other week every other month. Was never accused of being a snake oil salesman. The company I founded and retired from supplies numerous restoration shops with our products for years. So you can call all the names you like send me a sample let me play with it. I have used Dupont PPG , RM and a bunch of others over the years Are you putting body filler over bare metal ? Nevada is a little bit different than New Jersey when it comes to rust and corrosion. Have a nice day
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pat master View Post
Okay dude you can make all the accusations you like. I did car shows for 18 years every two weeks at Carlisle, Hershey, Daytona Dunkirk , Charlotte MotorSpeedway. same Faces for years every other year every other week every other month. Was never accused of being a snake oil salesman. The company I founded and retired from supplies numerous restoration shops with our products for years. So you can call all the names you like send me a sample let me play with it. I have used Dupont PPG , RM and a bunch of others over the years Are you putting body filler over bare metal ? Nevada is a little bit different than New Jersey when it comes to rust and corrosion. Have a nice day

I stand by what I said Your **** is BS Snake oil plain and simple.

I have no doubt you went to car shows trying to sell your wares for two decades to the uninformed, If it was so great it would be a household name by now! and its NOT!
I restore cars full time Bare metal up to a show car finish your **** is a mask over rust its a Band aide at best that will fail.


Anyone thats doing a full bare metal restoration should avoid any and all products like yours ITS JUNK! NOTE: I don't have to try it to know it!

Your calling BS on proven products endorsed by true proven Paint manufactures such as DUPONT AXALTA CROMAX and PPG to name a few! mfg of Epoxies primers base coats and clears! your company sells a few colors and no other primers epoxies or clears.


Your a BS salesman spamming forums trying to drum up sales.
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Do you always run your mouth about things you've never tried ? I think you're a troll or something along that line . I don't get paid from anybody. I try to educate people to the different options they have as far as restoration work goes. Have you ever weldeda patch panel in with acetylene and a wire clothes hanger ?. Have you ever put 14 coats of black lacquer on a car without using body filler or even glazing putty ? Do you know how to pick and file ??My little keyboard Commando ,and by the way I was a real Commando in Vietnam with the Screaming Eagles. I hope someday I come out to Nevada and get to see your work . that's my last respone to your asinine comments
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post #15 of 16 Old 09-08-2021, 08:23 PM
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Your the Troll selling BS products and Yes I can Gas weld Tig weld and Mig weld. and I all I do is restoration work. post pics of your restoration work I already have.


Your no restoration professional because no one that knows what they are doing pushes junk materials.
Please feel free to Visit my shop some time I will show you were to stick your head.


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