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post #1966 of 1986 Old 05-18-2015, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by djflyy View Post
Thanks for the photo compliment Lu.

I may have gotten carried away with the capitalization, but the issues remained. The biggest one that sticks out was a doorless WK2 G.Cherokee that was stuck on the "trail". With an event staff member watching, they hooked a small chain up between the G.C. and the cherokee behind him, yanking on the chain with bystanders less than 10 feet away. When that didn't work they brought up the next TJ behind the cherokee and instead of using the front mounted bumper, again hooked the chain up to his recovery points on the front. The guy doing the chain attachment then stood right next to the chain as they yanked the WK2 out of its position, all with people standing nearby.

I realize it may come off as anal retentive/overbearing, but I'd like to think that a Jeep club putting on an event might have someone leading the trail run stop and say aloud "hey, let's A) not use a chain-link recovery device, B) use the winch instead, and C) have people step away, in case one of these things breaks and becomes a projectile item".

It really, really irked me. Simultaneously making me happy that at North Shore Jeeps when recovery stuff is done we're sure to keep people away and use the proper recovery pieces to do things safely.


I wouldn't say that's anal.

those are pretty bad recovery practices.


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post #1967 of 1986 Old 05-18-2015, 06:22 PM
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250 members for NSJ. That's Incredible. I haven't logged onto there in quit sometime.

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post #1968 of 1986 Old 05-19-2015, 08:18 AM
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I can vouch for ryan not being overbearing and the sketchiness of the situation. Basically the WK2 was being yanked out with a chain that looked like it should be wrapped around a snow tire, with no less than 20 people standing around it spectating. It was sketchy as hell and was enough for me to move behind a tree about 30 feet away, then leave shortly after. Overall I think the crew at GTD does a great job and there is only so much policing they can do with 800 jeeps but damn they are lucky to avoid an accident with those lackadaisical safety measures

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post #1969 of 1986 Old 05-23-2015, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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So leaving MaBell last week I noticed some play in my front driveshaft... unfortunately beyond that there was play in the yoke itself, so I'm going to order a complete bearing rebuild kit for the HP30. I cracked the diff open today and found a soupy gray mix of fluid, likely the result of the swim the Jeep took a few weeks ago. I'm going to let it drain out then refill the fluid up and install my new (I'm late to the party with this *****) LubeLocker seals that I got. Luckily it looks to me like the gears themselves are fine, which was a huge concern after seeing the play in the yoke.

Is there anything else I need to check before ordering the stuff from ECGS to redo the seals/bearings? I'd obviously like to have everything in place at once, but if I don't need a new ring & pinion I'd rather avoid having to do that.

'17 WK2 Trailhawk Expedition Build

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post #1970 of 1986 Old 05-31-2015, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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On Saturday I drove up to my friend's in Harvard, MA and parked the Jeep in his garage, being joined by Andrew, Mike LeBlanc, and Shaun. We stripped the front axle down pretty quickly, having it completely void of hubs/bearings/carrier/pinion/etc in about an hour's time. As we ate lunch and called the local Harbor Freight to check on the status of a 12+ ton press to getting the new bearings on the pinion, Shaun noticed that though the pinion gear hadn't chipped or anything major, it was slightly shaved down, and likely on course for complete internal destruction. It was at that point that I decided against moving forward with putting the 4.10 gear set back in, and we cleaned up the garage, leaving the Jeep on jack stands for the week.

Since I'm buying new gears anyway the debate came in as to whether or not it'd be worth it to re-gear with a better ratio for my tire/tranny/engine combination. 5 years ago when I built the Jeep from 31s to 35s, I picked up the 8.8 from ECGS and HP30 on Craigslist with the 4.10 gearing as it was semi-easy to find and wasn't costing me a fortune, a plus since I had just graduated from college. I've rocked the 4.10s since then without much complaint, only recently having started using 4th gear more on the highway simply out of convenience.

What I'm going to end up doing is buying a 4.56 ring & pinion set for the HP30 and 8.8, and we'll move the axle gear down a bit to allow for better driving on and off road.Though I'm not entirely looking forward to the idea or cost of re-gearing it, it will probably make more sense than throwing new 4.10s back inside the front axle and calling it a day... might as well use the opportunity to upgrade.

So the Jeep is sitting for the week, parts are coming in from Summit Racing, I've yet to place the order but I found Motive Gears for $350 front and rear. I've read that the Motive guys came from Alloy USA before they got bought out, and are some of the best people in the industry. A few small other parts will be delivered as well, and we'll rebuild both axles next weekend.

Before I click buy, does anyone have objections or thoughts on any of this? I picked 4.56 as an even ground between 10 and 88, allowing for better power banding and a little better gas mileage while still giving a good change in performance on and off road. And Motive seems to have great reviews from what I've read.


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post #1971 of 1986 Old 05-31-2015, 07:55 PM
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FWIW, my last jeep had 4.56 and 35's and I really liked it except in the mtns. I'll be doing 4.88 this time around, though your reasoning makes sense and you'll probably be happy with 4.56.

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post #1972 of 1986 Old 05-31-2015, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, my last jeep had 4.56 and 35's and I really liked it except in the mtns. I'll be doing 4.88 this time around, though your reasoning makes sense and you'll probably be happy with 4.56.

Thanks for the input my friend. Your mountains are 10-12,000 feet taller than anything here so I don't think that'll be a huge problem for me even in the steepest mountain passes we have. Seems like general consensus between here and Jeep-Owner.com is that 4.56 is the way to go... that included a comment from a guy at ECGS which is reassuring.

Now to decide which gears... gotta make sure they're here by Friday.

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post #1973 of 1986 Old 06-01-2015, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Never heard back from 4-Low Parts about the famed Revolution Gears, so I just placed a few orders...

1. $314.00 - 4.56 gears for the HP30/8.8 from Summit Racing... went with Motive Gears
2. $40.00 - 37 tooth speedometer gear / new 12"x18" American Flag for the CB from Amazon
3. $7.45 - oil slinger for 8.8 & HP30 / oil baffles for each from RockAuto

The gears and slingers will be here by Friday for Saturday's install, which will give me the afternoon to have the bearings pressed on the pinion. Group decision was to leave the bearings on the carrier since they both look to be in great shape. So if we're looking at $450 for the master install kits and new gears, this won't be a bad deal for re-gearing to 4.56.

I'll post more pics up when the install is done.

'17 WK2 Trailhawk Expedition Build

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post #1974 of 1986 Old 06-01-2015, 08:01 PM
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I'm running 4.56 and 35s. Good choice if you do a good bit if interstate driving. And I've never had a hill or climb I couldn't spin tires on while in 2nd gear offroad.

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post #1975 of 1986 Old 06-02-2015, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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I'm running 4.56 and 35s. Good choice if you do a good bit if interstate driving. And I've never had a hill or climb I couldn't spin tires on while in 2nd gear offroad.
Glad to hear it. I think in the long run these gears will be better for me with the highway/trail/local use.

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post #1976 of 1986 Old 06-02-2015, 01:52 PM
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I run 4.88s with 35s. No complaints here, great pick up on highway.

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post #1977 of 1986 Old 06-14-2015, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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NEWS UPDATE:

MY JEEP HATES ME + FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DO THEIR OWN GEARS!

---

Now, that being said. Today was interesting.



Andrew (garage friend / Jeep guy) came and picked me up this morning. Upon arriving at his house we spread out my tools across the floor and went to work on Big Red. Today's mission was the HP30 and getting the TJ home to Reading from his place an hour or so away. It took no time at all to find out that the yoke of the D30 was not fitting on the splines of the new pinion gear. We were quite intrigued by this, and after smoothly putting it back on the original pinion gear, were quite frustrated. We took a yoke off of his not-yet-built HP30 and had the same result. Motive Gears are obviously closed because it's Sunday, but I was able to get an online chat with tech support at Summit Racing who was also intrigued by this discovery, saying that I might need a new yoke with newer/less worn down teeth.


It was at this point that I very quickly made the executive decision to button up the Jeep as is and get her the hell home. First order of business here was to get the carrier back in the pumpkin and torqued down. Having debated turning the axle shafts into stubs, I decided that the carrier might as well sit in the pumpkin for storage anyways, which would allow the axle shafts somewhere to sit. I took an old oil baffle from the HP and wrapped it in duct tape, shoving it into the outer bearing race at the top of the pinion itself and stuffing behind it with shop rags. Bright green duct tape is applying pressure to hold the combination in place, keeping diff fluid from making its way out where the pinion seal would be.


Reassembling the hubs and getting the wheels on, we put Big Red back under its own weight for the first time in 3 weeks. Torquing the lube locker/ SOLID diff cover to spec, we emptied 2 bottles of gear oil into it. This was frustrating at the cost of $12, seeing as the ring gear wouldn't generate any heat on its own, but the inner axle seals needed some kind of lubricant for the shafts to spin against.So there was that. Also took a fair bit of grease into the Alloy USA outer axle seals that we had installed last week. They had been sitting on my work bench for 3 years so I figured now was the time to install them. Last bit was removing the front driveshaft. Removing it was a bit of fun with the UCF engine & transfer case skid system installed, but we eventually got those PITA 4 bolts out and removed the shaft. Andrew is replacing his own u-joints this week and will be replacing my front DS u-joint at the same time while my press is at his shop.



Praying to the God of Jeeps, we opened the garage door and rolled her backwards... Big Red Was Dead. Jumpstarting it we VERY cautiously backed it down his driveway and went for a short and slow drive up the street. Getting the initial nerves out of my body, I took the backroads home, Andrew following me halfway just in case. Using all 5+R gears, I traveled at sustained speeds between 15-50 mph with a break in the middle of my drive. No issues whatsoever getting it home and parked in my driveway.


I'll call the right people tomorrow and find out if I need a new pinion gear (and subsequently ring gear) or whether this is a common thing and a new yoke will solve the issue. We shall see.


It's kind of neat that I (we) regeared the Jeep. Granted it's not done yet, but I was able to drive 10 feet without the rear end exploding. Still, f*ck this. Never again. If it hadn't been in someone else's garage, I'd have burned the thing down already.




Micro differences make huge deals


Reassembly



Stuffed pinion


Duct Taped



The problem yoke









Made it home

'17 WK2 Trailhawk Expedition Build

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post #1978 of 1986 Old 06-16-2015, 12:41 PM
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How are the 4.56s?

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post #1979 of 1986 Old 06-22-2015, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Jeep's done!!!



Is what I would like to say. But I cannot. Because It is not. After grinding out starter bearings for the carrier, Shaun and I began testing the shim configuration. As it came out of the differential, there were (4) 0.01" shims on the RGS (ring gear side) and (2) 0.01" on the Non-RGS. The method of working with this is to add the same amount to the opposite side you subtract it from. So if I removed 0.01" from the RGS, I have to add 0.01" to the Non-RGS. So we messed around with shims. It ended up taking 15 different set-ups before we got the best gear markings on the ring teeth, with a final number of RGS 0.045" and Non-RGS 0.00"... what a hoot it was to put the carrier in and remove it so many times. But, I do have to say that taking the time to do it so thoroughly was good both for the practice, and also to see how insanely small measurements, 0.005 inch shims, can make such a massive difference in the placement of the carrier in relation to the pinion. It's really quite amazing.

Grinding bearings


Painted them yellow for zero confusion


Keeping track of shim changes


Best marking we got... the keeper.



So after that we removed the carrier and took it over to the Gigantic Press. It took a minute of configuration to seat the 2 bearings on the carrier, utilizing The Tool a few times for assistance, but once it was on we set the carrier aside and went back to the pinion. The pre-load was worked on with the set-up outer pinion bearing, and upon figuring that we were right where we wanted to be, we used the yoke to press on the new outer bearing. It seated perfectly with the 150 ft.lbs torque setting, after which we removed the yoke and got the pinion seal seated in... what a breeze! Man. Seriously took 4 taps with a hard rubber mallet and that baby was ready for fluid.

It wasn't until we had put the hubs on that things got stupid, again. My 1/2" to 3/8" adaptor broke while we were torquing the spacer lug nuts, and of course I didn't have a 19mm or 3/4" half inch drive socket here. So then we moved to at least attaching the driveshaft at which point I noticed that the NEW YOKE I BOUGHT - for a '98 XJ *- came with u-bolt holes instead of the normal strap holes. So we were dead in the water for the 8th time on this re-gear since I didn't have the right part for the new yoke. $10 on Amazon and they'll be here later this week. Big thanks to Shaun though for coming down today for a few hours of wrenching. He's highlighted in a photobomb below.

It's almost done. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just ain't getting there today.


Pressing bearings


Pre-loaded pinion


Yoke strap holes... and Shaun

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post #1980 of 1986 Old 05-31-2016, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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So in the year since I regeared the TJ, all has been well within the axles. That's huge... didn't fck it up.

After our spring club trip to MaBell, I was having grinding / binding noises, and leaks with my 1999's NP231 transfer case. I disassembled it and changed the RTV and seals afterwords, hoping to fix the leaks. I discovered a small hairline crack afterwords, and I messed around inside to try and see what was wrong inside the case itself, but it's been 6 years since I disassembled it last and I didn't see much wrong. In 2-HI it's fine, however in 4 WD it made awful noises and had no power to the wheels.... it was time to take it back apart and figure out what was wrong!

I picked up my new NP231 on Thursday of last week for $50. It's out of a 1989, which will come into play later. I stripped it down, removed what I didn't need, cleaned it out, and painted it. Not sure why, but just so it didn't look like cast aluminum anymore. On Saturday morning a North Shore Jeeps friend came by and gave me a hand removing the old NP231 from under the TJ. This was infinitely easier with 2 people, as we each could work on a side in removing it. Once the unit was out from under the Jeep, we cracked it open and got to work on removing parts while the output housing was painted and drying.


An little while later we did a test-fit of the housing to make sure all was well before RTV, and realized that all in fact was not well at all. As it turns out, the shift fork on 231s was standard from 1984 or so until 1989, at which point it change from 1991 to 2006.... the 1989 TC that I picked up had a longer shift fork (by about an inch) than my 1999 unit. The length was enough to not allow the SYE output housing to sit flush against the TC rear case half. Unfortunately this stopped us in our tracks, as my '99 shift fork was absolutely demolished, due to the disintegration of pads at some point in recent days.... likely the cause of my noise problems.


I called the dealership and was informed that Chrysler actually discontinued the shift fork. Helpful. NAPA didn't stock it. Awesome. So I called Crown where the chain came from, and talked to my friend Kevin. He had one in stock for $40, but was closing for the long weekend... thankfully he's a friend and left it in the mailbox for me, so I could make the hour drive to their Canton, MA warehouse and pick it up at my leisure... aka 11 PM that night, with no traffic.


Rob came back over on Monday and helped me throw the case back together. Again, much easier with two people. We did run into a problem trying to adjust the Novak line, and I think I'll need to order a new shifter cable and shift bracket as it seems wallowed out and will not shift properly. That aside, the Jeep is capable of driving now without noise or issue, in 4HI. New rear DS should be delivered by week's end, so 2HI can be a thing. Due to the shift cable not functioning properly, the shifter position is not where it should be, and 4-LO is beyond the shifting ability of the lever, which is why I'll need to adjust the cable. Our attempts to do so yielded no success.


~3 quarts of 10w-30 into the tranny and ~1.75 of ATF into the TC and the Jeep was good to drive around the neighborhood a few times. The front locker wasn't happy with tighter turns, but once the rear DS is back in all should be well.


Technically, hairline crack/new TC housing aside, this was a $120 project. $170 in total isn't bad at all.




New TC disassembled



Painted



Removing the bad NP231



TC out









This is the bad pin length





Old 4-lo shifter fork, torn up....



1989 vs 1999 fork length difference





Old fork on the left... notice the lack of teeth for the fork pads... all worn down



new chain is nice and tight




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