High travel, high clearance & high octane, a streetable adventure LJ story - Page 24 - JeepForum.com
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post #346 of 485 Old 07-10-2019, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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To finish up my windshield repair, the windshield company replaced the glass. It didn't come with new interior trim so I'm glad I hung onto that piece.




Building the right way for 37s.
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post #347 of 485 Old 07-12-2019, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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I had to do a few other errands down in the big city so I decided to try out another tire shop for balancing and I ended up finding the best tech ever who had no issues with the set of 35s and 37s showing up or being on beadlocks.

This is a 37" Goodyear MT/R on TrailReady beadlocks balanced out to 0.00oz on Roadforce:



The other set of 35s (for my wife's Jeep) was done by another guy at the same shop. He did an acceptable job with them but in the future I will be requesting that the guy who did the 37s personally balance my tires. I still need to take them for a spin but as long as they drive good I'd say it's well worth the 6 hour round trip drive to get them done right!



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Building the right way for 37s.
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post #348 of 485 Old 07-12-2019, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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I've learned a lot since I put in the rear coilovers and I think I have come up with a method for mocking up the perfect placement for the hoops and it requires very little effort comparatively. This is the culmination of my experiences, the suggestions of others, and a few things I've seen. So I can't take full credit for it. I also agreed not to share some of the tips I received that really helped make the install way easier, if you're keen eyed you can probably spot these tricks in the pictures and learn.

To start, I measured the axle from the ground at ride height, next I moved the axle up to full bump and measured again. My limiting factor is the tie rod contacting the draglink TRE. My total available uptravel is 6.5". Next I took the collapsed length of my coilovers and added 6.5" to the number. I ended up with 31" as the length of my coilovers eye to eye at ride height.

I then took a piece of 1x1 and cut it 1" longer than my eye to eye length and drilled holes 31" apart so I could fit a 1.5" spacer in on each end (this is the width of my coilover eyes). I then bolted the mounting tabs on one end for the axle and the bracket on the other end for the hoop. This is my "mockup coilover".



If you've worked with coilovers before, you've probably realized as soon as you start placing the top bracket that there's really only one way to orientate the bracket onto the hoop so that the coilover body doesn't hit the bracket. Here's the magic recipe:

Take your hoops and lay them flat on the ground, put a length of ...REDACTED... The resulting location should be the ideal orientation. I went ahead and tacked the mounts in place.



One quick note here, I cheaped out when I bought the upper brackets since I was patching together what I had left from the rear hoops and I went with Artec's version. Artec either has no clue what they're doing or their mount isn't designed to work with Fox 2.5 coilovers... either way they don't fit around the eye and the design isn't nearly well functioning as the Genright mounts I replaced them with.


(Artec on the left, Genright on the right)

The next biggest hurtle that we're going to prep for is perfecting coping and notching the tubing around the frame. The front section of frame has a lot of things to notch around like the motor mounts, but this method will make messing up okay. I took 6' of ...REDACTED... not have to bend/buy new hoops.

Based on some testing at full flex, I know that I need to move the coilover inboard to keep it off the axle side track bar mount, and I need to keep the coilover as far outboard as I can to clear the frame. But by mounting the coilover angled too far out at the top it looks dorky and can start getting into the tire. My best bet is to lean the coilovers back at the top so the body is in the narrowest section of the frame. To achieve a happy medium I will possibly need to notch the frame to make it even narrower. I'm hoping I'll be able to fit in short airbumps but I might not have the room.

Now that I am prepped and have a general idea of my coilover placement, I put the axle back at ride height, closed the hood, took the "mockup coilover" and checked my clearances against the hood. I want my mounts to fit under the hood. Right off the bat I can tell that I need to move the coilovers down. The coilover itself clears, but the hoop will not.

I was able to shave 1/2" off the axle mounting tabs to get them closer to the axle but it's still not enough clearance if the hood is pushed down and I don't want them tapping as it catches wind going down the road. These 2.5x14" coilovers are just so long... I looked briefly at the 2.0s and I've riden in a similarly built Jeep with 2.0x12" with the new Fox DSCs and it rode great so it's an option if I have to. But I still think I can make these big boys fit.

My 2 options are to limit uptravel and I could lift the Jeep slightly more to gain it back, or to mount the coilover lower on the axle.

Building the right way for 37s.
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post #349 of 485 Old 07-13-2019, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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I cut new tabs to mount the coilovers off the lower control arm mounts and bolted them to my mockup coilover. This postions the coilover with plenty of clearance off the hood.



Mounting the coilovers at an angle in of 87* seemed like a good place to start based on my earlier mockups. So I tacked the tabs onto the axle pointed with the bolt 90* from the axle, angled the mockup coilover 87* in, and placed the hoop legs on the frame. I then took out my secret weapon: the Pipemaster! I've been wanting one for a while now and I decided to splurge and see how well it works for notching the tubing around the motor mounts -- something that would be impossible to eyeball with any accuracy.

I traced the pattern from the pipemaster around each leg and cut them at the welding table with the angle grinder.





Going back to the hoop, I put the mock up coilover back at the desired angle. The notching turned out pretty good! I then tacked them into place.


(at full articulation the bottom eye of the coilover is about 1/2" away from it's mount)

Before repeating for the other side, I cycled the axle and learned a few things.

1) I will need to notch the frame by over half it's width. But first I want to repeat for the other side to make sure the mirrored position works fine.
2) Because the coilovers aren't mounted in a true 1:1 ratio with the axle movement and the axle tube rolls as it cycles, there is an extra 1/2" of travel left before they bottom out at full bump. To prevent the axle from smashing through the engine, I'm either going to need air bumps in place or lower the hoops by 1/2". If solved with air bumps, I will also need to check that the tires are okay at full articulation.

Building the right way for 37s.
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post #350 of 485 Old 07-13-2019, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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I did some more measurements and calculations and I've come to the conclusion that I will need to remove nearly the entire width of the frame at the bottom for the 2.5x14 coilover to clear. I do have some strength concerns with that as well since I plan to place the air bumps in front of that C notch and the forces of winching/recovery. While possible, this is a difficult area to reinforce and to box on the inboard side with the motor mount being present and even that box would need to also then be notched to clear my upper control arm and reboxed.

To avoid that mess I decided to go with 2.0x14 coilovers in the front. Based on my approximate measurements they should be way easier to fit since they are narrower and shorter for the same amount of travel.

Like I previously mentioned, from my experience, 2.0s with DSC ride comparatively to 2.5s. When I started my build the DSCs were not available yet. The con to going with the smaller 2.0 is in something like a racing application where they will heat up and fade and the added volume of a 2.5 is needed, or on a heavy Jeep. But I suspect I've only added a few hundred pounds of sprung weight. Since I have the 2.5s in the rear, which see twice the work of the fronts, I should be in good shape. If I ever find that they're not meeting my needs I can always look into bypass shocks (although I truly don't think I ever will need them or else I'd be going down that road now).

The new coilovers will hopefully be in early next week.

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post #351 of 485 Old 07-13-2019, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a comparison between the 2.0x14 (bottom) and 2.5x14 (top) coilovers:



I continued with mounting the coilover behind the axle tube to make mounting the air bumps on top easy. The placement works fine but the axle side mount is getting to be ugly coming off the control arm mount and difficult to make.




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post #352 of 485 Old 07-13-2019, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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I decided to forget the airbumps in the front. After a conversation I was reminded that they aren't necessary and certainly not worth going through a headache to get the coilover mounted. If they end up easily fitting in anyway so be it.



Quote:
2) Because the coilovers aren't mounted in a true 1:1 ratio with the axle movement and the axle tube rolls as it cycles, there is an extra 1/2" of travel left before they bottom out at full bump. To prevent the axle from smashing through the engine, I'm either going to need air bumps in place or lower the hoops by 1/2". If solved with air bumps, I will also need to check that the tires are okay at full articulation.
I threw a tire and fender on to check the clearance at full articulation. It clears with some okay rubbing so I'm mirroring the hoop to the other side! This is great because it'll allow for extra uptravel when articulated and the axle/tire can go up further before it pushes the body up. That will make the Jeep more stable.

To mirror the hoop to the other side I was finding that my digital angle finder had some accuracy issues, I've worked around these short comings before, but I wanted to avoid the frustration so I picked up a pair of digital levels instead. Since my Jeep is level on the ground I won't have to recalibrate the angle finder.

And using the power of internet magic, the hoop is mirrored to the right side!



Cycling the axle you can see just how close the springs will get to the axle track bar bracket and the frame. Seeing this makes me glad I didn't suffer through 2.5s...




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post #353 of 485 Old 07-13-2019, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Now that the hoops are in place, I decided to fully remeasure the frame and hoops and check axle alignment front to rear just to absolutely double check my alignment. I'm honestly a little confused with what I've found. The front frame and clip seem to be shifted 1/4" to the side when measuring from the frame to the brake caliper. But the axle appears to be absolutely centered by placing a line from the rear center to the front center. The front axle is also square to the rear axle. When I was working on the roll cage I did find that it was screwed slightly on the driver's side so maybe this has to do with all of that. From the factory my understanding is that measurements varied greatly too. All in all I'm going to say that it is good to go.

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post #354 of 485 Old 07-14-2019, 11:06 AM
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High travel, high clearance & high octane, a streetable adventure LJ story

Tox - any way you can move your lower shock mounts out a little? That may help with your clearance to the frame. I actually mounted mine on the inner C. As you know I run 2.0ís, but I did not have any clearance issues at all in the front, and I think I could fit the 2.5ís without any issues. The rear is a different story on my rig - I barely fit the 2.0ís.

Also, Iíd suggest rethinking using the airbumps. They make a world of difference on my rig.

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post #355 of 485 Old 07-14-2019, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashvilleTJ View Post
Tox - any way you can move your lower shock mounts out a little? That may help with your clearance to the frame. I actually mounted mine on the inner C. As you know I run 2.0ís, but I did not have any clearance issues at all in the front, and I think I could fit the 2.5ís without any issues. The rear is a different story on my rig - I barely fit the 2.0ís.

Also, Iíd suggest rethinking using the airbumps. They make a world of difference on my rig.
Not without loosing up travel, moving the brake MC to lean the coilovers back so they won't go through the hood, or placing the mounts behind the axle. With the 2.0s I've got about 1/4" clearance between the springs and frame and full articulation so I think it'll be fine. I think it comes down to the Ford style 60 inner-C to WMS being so wide that it doesn't leave much tube for the coilover to mount on. A little more WMS would make all the difference. I'm not even close to the tire, only the C and frame. I forget which style 60 you are running, but that could be the difference. I think a stock Jeep Dana 30 would provide about the same amount of room to work with (I'll measure it later today).

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post #356 of 485 Old 07-14-2019, 08:02 PM
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High travel, high clearance & high octane, a streetable adventure LJ story

Iím running Dynatrac Pro Roc 60ís - 63.5 WMS. One advantage of running the 40ís was that the tires themselves limited my uptravel a bit, so that made fitting the coilovers a little bit easier. And when I did the suspension, I actually did have the coilover towers and the top of the shocks poking through the hood.

Nice work Tox. Youíre getting closer.

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post #357 of 485 Old 07-14-2019, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashvilleTJ View Post
Iím running Dynatrac Pro Roc 60ís - 63.5 WMS. One advantage of running the 40ís was that the tires themselves limited my uptravel a bit, so that made fitting the coilovers a little bit easier. And when I did the suspension, I actually did have the coilover towers and the top of the shocks poking through the hood.

Nice work Tox. Youíre getting closer.
Thanks for the encouragement! It means a lot!

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post #358 of 485 Old 07-14-2019, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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To prevent the hoops from folding into the engine I am placing a spreader bar across the hoops and over the engine. The hoop I have came from Genright and is made from 0.120" wall 1-1/2" DOM with prebent ends.

To prevent any warping during welding, I welded on a temporary spreader bar between the hoops across the front of the engine. I then fully welded the hoops to the frame.


(spoiler: air bumps are happening)

I roughly mocked up the hoop spreader bar stacked on sheets of cardboard and held in place with tape to clear the supercharger and I found that the hood wouldn't close by about 1/2" due to the reinforcement down the center of the hood. So much for being easy! I'll be cutting and sliding down the center section about 1" to make room.





I want the bend in the tube to be centered over the supercharger but that places the hoop off center. I also want to keep the grill support rods (which aren't symmetrical to each other... I've been looking at them for 10 years and I never realized that...) Rather than only choosing either/or, I decided to have it all and cut the spreader bar in half to stretch it. There's not really a great place to cut it that won't waste the section so I just cut it right in the middle; I have new DOM that I'll be cutting to patch in the center section.

With the center section cut, I placed a sleeve over the 2 ends so they could slide but still be straight. I also raised the hoop up 1/2" off the supercharger to take into account the engine moving around in it's mounts.



I then notched and cut both "extensions", welded the flanges on at the table. Before welding the extensions onto the hoops and spreader I made sure both halves of the spreader were at the same angle.





I unbolted and removed both halves of the spreader and replaced the sleeve with a smaller one. I then welded on a temporary girdle to prevent movement while I worked on lowering the center.



I lowered the hood and marked the hood brace location onto the spreader bar (which by the way, the center hood brace is not exactly center of the hood... at least on mine.). I then marked the width of the hood brace and marked a few inches further so there will room to add gussets.

Then I cut the spreader on those widest marks.





To make the lower center section I cut ovals out of 1/4" bar and cut a new DOM section to length. The Makita LC1230 saw I had bought when I started this build worked perfectly to cut little amounts off the tubing at a time in order to get a tight fit.



I hurriedly cut the girdle off to see if the work ended up paying off and I am happy to report that it was well worth the effort. The hood closes perfectly and leaves a comfortable gap to the spreader.



I knew that this was going to be a challenge since day 1 of planing out the build back in late 2017 so it feels good having it checked off the list!

And finally, for your viewing pleasure, the bend around the supercharger:

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post #359 of 485 Old 07-15-2019, 08:23 AM
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That's a lot of good stuff right there. You had a productive weekend. I know I spent a whole lot of time determining my shock and hoop angles and placement. I went with Air shocks because I just couldn't find room for CO's. The front would have been fine, but the rear gets really tight if you want to keep at least some of the frame rails.

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post #360 of 485 Old 07-16-2019, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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I got the reservoirs mounted and the hoses routed to the coilovers.

For the front I had to bend the refrigerant lines out of the way and shorten the upper radiator hose to move it down. It still lightly touches the reservoir so if it ends up transferring heat I'll have to cut it down some more.






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